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The portal - lex24 - 12-05-2019
I wanted to start a thread on this because I have some questions. First, exactly how does it work? My understanding is if you have graduated in four years and have a year left of eligibility you are free to transfer into a graduate program. Is that correct? Second, am I correct in assuming that you have to be accepted by that school into a graduate program in order to transfer to that school. Can a player instead of going for an advanced degree in that fifth year, simply stay at the school the fifth year and take more units even though he’s earned enough units to have graduated? In other words stay in the undergraduate program and simply take more classes?
It seems to me that if my assumption about how this works that this portal system doesn’t work very well for Stanford. Pretty unlikely many players from other schools are going to be accepted into a Stanford graduate program. Also somewhat likely that some of the players who are in their 5th year who graduated at Stanford will not be able to get into Stanford graduate program.
As with everything having to do with Stanford football the assumption is this is Shaw’s fault. But it could be a whole host of factors. Maybe they can’t get in to the Stanford graduate program? Maybe they simply want to try a different experience? On the other hand maybe it’s the program. But does anybody actually have any evidence or any of that? Lotta pissing in the wind going on. But if you have evidence by all means lay it out there. I’d love to see it.
RE: The portal - donkey687 - 12-05-2019
No current Stanford team players need to be accepted in a graduate school to stay a fifth year. They can stay and keep taking undergraduate classes, but many of them will try and get a graduate degree by applying to a graduate program at Stanford.
RE: The portal - 82lsju - 12-05-2019
some info here (and in the links in the article)
http://www.ncaa.org/about/resources/research/prevalence-graduate-transfer-division-i
and in something I did not know you don't to enter a graduate program you can begin pursuing a second undergrad degree or general post-baccalaureate coursework
Quote:Although it varies by sport, overall 76% of postgraduates enter graduate programs, while 24% pursue a second undergraduate major/degree or general post-baccalaureate coursework (Table 1).
and more here
https://ncaaorg.s3.amazonaws.com/research/rep/RES_REP-GradTransfersD1Results-ppt.pdf
and not all that many grad transfers actually get a graduate degree within two years (50% overall, 34% in MBB and 31% in football) and I'd guess that even if you extended the tracking period to 3 or 4 years that the rates would not go up much.
The alumni database shows Brennan Scarlett as having gotten his MS Management Science & Engineering in 2016 so he was one of the ones who completed his degree
http://www.ncaa.org/about/resources/research/academic-outcomes-division-i-postgraduate-student-athletes
RE: The portal - Cowboy1 - 12-05-2019
Have the rules changed recently? The reason I ask is that there seems to be a large number of "students" from other schools entering the portal who have not been at their school for very long. There are articles about a number of quarterbacks transferring to places where they may be able to play because they were beat out at their original school.
RE: The portal - BostonCard - 12-05-2019
(12-05-2019, 07:11 PM)Cowboy1 Wrote: Have the rules changed recently? The reason I ask is that there seems to be a large number of "students" from other schools entering the portal who have not been at their school for very long. There are articles about a number of quarterbacks transferring to places where they may be able to play because they were beat out at their original school.
Two new things have happened
1) The graduate transfer rule has allowed players who graduate their schools to play immediately. That rule has been around since 2013, but the number of students taking advantage of it has gone up every year since, though in football it has seemed to plateau in 2018. he rule was changed a few years ago (maybe in 2017, accounting for the big jump?) to not require that the graduate program the athlete is going into not be offered in their current school.
![[Image: RES_GradTransferREP-Fig1Men.png?itok=afSkdZnT]](http://www.ncaa.org/sites/default/files/styles/standard_small/public/RES_GradTransferREP-Fig1Men.png?itok=afSkdZnT)
2) The transfer portal was opened in 2018.
http://www.ncaa.org/static/champion/what-the-ncaa-transfer-portal-is/
The portal makes it much easier for transferring students since it allows coaches from any school to contact them. Basically, if you enter the portal, you can wait for coaches to contact you, instead of painstakingly having to contact coaches in schools you might be interested in to ask if they have a spot and would take you.
My guess is that we will see a lot of student-athletes enter the portal just to gauge interest, since there is no downside.
BC
RE: The portal - Phogge - 12-05-2019
Lex, here you go. Depends on the portal. Kurt Russell jumped into the hole, got relocated to a planet a lot like ancient Egypt and got liquidated.
The guy in the Time Machine went ahead right through granite and storms and wound up with Yvette Mimieux and killed a bunch of Morelocks. Good trade.
In The City you go through the slow neighborhood know as West Portal and enter a tunnel into a different world that we used to call the Eureka Valley and now is known as the Castro. A very cool neighborhood with some great coffee and a pleasant vibe.
RE: The portal - 2006alum - 12-05-2019
(12-05-2019, 06:07 PM)82lsju Wrote: some info here (and in the links in the article)
http://www.ncaa.org/about/resources/research/prevalence-graduate-transfer-division-i
and in something I did not know you don't to enter a graduate program you can begin pursuing a second undergrad degree or general post-baccalaureate coursework
Quote:Although it varies by sport, overall 76% of postgraduates enter graduate programs, while 24% pursue a second undergraduate major/degree or general post-baccalaureate coursework (Table 1).
and more here
https://ncaaorg.s3.amazonaws.com/research/rep/RES_REP-GradTransfersD1Results-ppt.pdf
and not all that many grad transfers actually get a graduate degree within two years (50% overall, 34% in MBB and 31% in football) and I'd guess that even if you extended the tracking period to 3 or 4 years that the rates would not go up much.
The alumni database shows Brennan Scarlett as having gotten his MS Management Science & Engineering in 2016 so he was one of the ones who completed his degree
http://www.ncaa.org/about/resources/research/academic-outcomes-division-i-postgraduate-student-athletes
I could be wrong, but I read that as saying that some students who are still burning their 4 years of eligibility are technically postgraduates, but I don't think that's the same thing as saying that after you graduate from college, you can automatically stay and keep accumulating units. For example, Sabrina Ionescu already graduated from Oregon and is now pursuing a master's while in her fourth year of eligibility. She's a postgraduate student-athlete, but not a transfer. And if she were using her fourth year of eligibility to pursue a second bachelor's, she'd still be considered a postgraduate student, albeit one who is pursing a second bachelor's.
That same link defines a graduate transfer as:
Quote:“Graduate transfers” were defined as student-athletes who previously earned a bachelor’s degree and then enrolled during the 2017-18 academic year (labeled as “2018” in the following charts) as a graduate student at a different Division I college.
That suggests that anyone entering the portal is not seeking a second bachelor's. So unless Stanford allows students who are eligible to graduate to nonetheless stay on a fifth year in pursuit of more undergraduate credits, I suspect any Stanford red-shirt junior entering the portal is doing so because they need to seek out a graduate degree to qualify for a fourth year on the field. And I strongly, strongly suspect that Stanford forces students who are eligible to graduate in four years to do so, because otherwise wouldn't every Stanford athlete who could drag it out so they could get a fifth year on the Farm? I know I would have, had I had the opportunity!! ;) I would guess it's easier at state schools to stick around for a second bachelor's or to drag it out to five years -- indeed, at Berkeley, it's common to need 5 or even 6 years to be able to finish a single bachelor's degree, given how oversubscribed a lot of STEM required classes are...
RE: The portal - Goose - 12-05-2019
There are two guys who are NOT in the portal that surprise me. One is KJ Costello. If he goes to the NFL this year, I expect he will not be drafted. He showed nothing in 2019 due to injury. If he comes back, can he beat out Mills? That is a big risk, IMHO. He was out so long his "incumbent" status will not help him. Given that, I would suggest he should at least look at other options.
The other one is J.T. Daniels. He is staying to compete with Slovis. Very bad decision. With all the heat on Helton, there is no way he pulls Slovis for J.T. Daniels, even if J.T. is "better". It is also improbable, as Slovis has the mobility J.T. lacks. Since it will cost him a year, better now than later.
RE: The portal - Phogge - 12-05-2019
He should transfer to a FCS program.
RE: The portal - Goose - 12-05-2019
(12-05-2019, 10:45 PM)Phogge Wrote: He should transfer to a FCS program.Which one, K.J. or J.T.? Or both?
RE: The portal - BostonCard - 12-05-2019
(12-05-2019, 10:35 PM)Goose Wrote: There are two guys who are NOT in the portal that surprise me. One is KJ Costello. If he goes to the NFL this year, I expect he will not be drafted. He showed nothing in 2019 due to injury. If he comes back, can he beat out Mills? That is a big risk, IMHO. He was out so long his "incumbent" status will not help him. Given that, I would suggest he should at least look at other options.
The other one is J.T. Daniels. He is staying to compete with Slovis. Very bad decision. With all the heat on Helton, there is no way he pulls Slovis for J.T. Daniels, even if J.T. is "better". It is also improbable, as Slovis has the mobility J.T. lacks. Since it will cost him a year, better now than later.
Just because they haven’t put their names in yet, doesn’t mean that one or both won’t sometime soon. Maybe they don’t want to get bombarded with messages from coaches of other programs while they are studying or taking finals.
BC
RE: The portal - cardcrimson - 12-06-2019
(12-05-2019, 10:18 PM)Phogge Wrote: Lex, here you go. Depends on the portal. Kurt Russell jumped into the hole, got relocated to a planet a lot like ancient Egypt and got liquidated.
The guy in the Time Machine went ahead right through granite and storms and wound up with Yvette Mimieux and killed a bunch of Morelocks. Good trade.
In The City you go through the slow neighborhood know as West Portal and enter a tunnel into a different world that we used to call the Eureka Valley and now is known as the Castro. A very cool neighborhood with some great coffee and a pleasant vibe.
At least get your facts straight. . . .Kurt Russell made it back through after nuking Ra. James Spader stayed behind to hang with Mili Avital, a nice trade, as well.
RE: The portal - 82lsju - 12-06-2019
(12-05-2019, 10:21 PM)2006alum Wrote: That suggests that anyone entering the portal is not seeking a second bachelor's. So unless Stanford allows students who are eligible to graduate to nonetheless stay on a fifth year in pursuit of more undergraduate credits, I suspect any Stanford red-shirt junior entering the portal is doing so because they need to seek out a graduate degree to qualify for a fourth year on the field. And I strongly, strongly suspect that Stanford forces students who are eligible to graduate in four years to do so, because otherwise wouldn't every Stanford athlete who could drag it out so they could get a fifth year on the Farm? I know I would have, had I had the opportunity!! ;) I would guess it's easier at state schools to stick around for a second bachelor's or to drag it out to five years -- indeed, at Berkeley, it's common to need 5 or even 6 years to be able to finish a single bachelor's degree, given how oversubscribed a lot of STEM required classes are...
note sure of the current rules, but way back when you had to file a form with Stanford to say you wanted to graduate and that you had met the requirements for your degree, they did no tell you you had graduated and should leave, this of course was for general students.
I thought for athletes that a fifth year (if they still have eligibility) was at the discretion of the University, so I could see athletes being allowed to continue as students but on their own nickel, which if they had enough units to graduate might not be very attractive.
RE: The portal - 81alum - 12-06-2019
(12-05-2019, 06:00 PM)donkey687 Wrote: No current Stanford team players need to be accepted in a graduate school to stay a fifth year. They can stay and keep taking undergraduate classes, but many of them will try and get a graduate degree by applying to a graduate program at Stanford.Are you sure this is true if the student has completed all necessary requirements for the BA? At my university students get forcibly graduated to make room for the next class. But I admit I don't know my alma mater's policy on this.
I presumed that Stanford, the most selective university in the world, would not deny a slot to an entering freshman to make room for a 5th year football player who has completed all degree requirements. But I could be wrong.
I remember Mikaela Ruef waiting to get into her engineering program for her 5th year and I presumed the same consideration would pertain for football.
RE: The portal - cardcrimson - 12-06-2019
(12-06-2019, 10:21 AM)81alum Wrote:(12-05-2019, 06:00 PM)donkey687 Wrote: No current Stanford team players need to be accepted in a graduate school to stay a fifth year. They can stay and keep taking undergraduate classes, but many of them will try and get a graduate degree by applying to a graduate program at Stanford.Are you sure this is true if the student has completed all necessary requirements for the BA? At my university students get forcibly graduated to make room for the next class. But I admit I don't know my alma mater's policy on this.
I presumed that Stanford, the most selective university in the world, would not deny a slot to an entering freshman to make room for a 5th year football player who has completed all degree requirements. But I could be wrong.
I remember Mikaela Ruef waiting to get into her engineering program for her 5th year and I presumed the same consideration would pertain for football.
What about double and secondary majors? I would presume a student could have one major completed, then seek another, correct?
RE: The portal - 2006alum - 12-06-2019
(12-06-2019, 10:21 AM)81alum Wrote:(12-05-2019, 06:00 PM)donkey687 Wrote: No current Stanford team players need to be accepted in a graduate school to stay a fifth year. They can stay and keep taking undergraduate classes, but many of them will try and get a graduate degree by applying to a graduate program at Stanford.Are you sure this is true if the student has completed all necessary requirements for the BA? At my university students get forcibly graduated to make room for the next class. But I admit I don't know my alma mater's policy on this.
I presumed that Stanford, the most selective university in the world, would not deny a slot to an entering freshman to make room for a 5th year football player who has completed all degree requirements. But I could be wrong.
I remember Mikaela Ruef waiting to get into her engineering program for her 5th year and I presumed the same consideration would pertain for football.
Yeah, I know from my time at Stanford I had to petition for a 13th quarter and explain why it was necessary to complete my first bachelor's. You can double major but you still need to complete it in 4 years or else show why you need the 5th - but you don't get a presumptive fifth year, and most of the time you get at most a 13th quarter, not a full year. I think the usual route in these circumstances at Stanford is to co-term, but even that you have to apply for and be accepted to, so it's possible the transfer portal is a combination of a back-up option coupled with the opportunity to see if the grass is greener.
But I really, really don't think Stanford is going to let a half dozen football players simply tack on a 13th, 14th, and 15th quarter of classes just cause.
RE: The portal - teejers1 - 12-06-2019
(12-05-2019, 10:21 PM)2006alum Wrote: I suspect any Stanford red-shirt junior entering the portal is doing so because they need to seek out a graduate degree to qualify for a fourth year on the field. And I strongly, strongly suspect that Stanford forces students who are eligible to graduate in four years to do so, because otherwise wouldn't every Stanford athlete who could drag it out so they could get a fifth year on the Farm? I
I do not believe this is correct (and am with 82LSJU on this).
Plus, it's 2 quarters before graduation. Students can take fewer units if you really think Stanford will boot you once you get your major-minimum units.
Kids with eligibility leaving the program - including entering "the portal" - is not a good look for Stanford (or others). But i do agree with Lex that Stanford benefits very little from transfer portal transitions, certainly far less than other schools.
RE: The portal - Phogge - 12-06-2019
Wow. I thought Russell was KIA. Must have been confused with “Backdraft.”
Best role was as Wyatt Earp: “...and Hell’s comin with me!”
RE: The portal - SamuelMcF - 12-06-2019
(12-06-2019, 10:39 AM)teejers1 Wrote:(12-05-2019, 10:21 PM)2006alum Wrote: I suspect any Stanford red-shirt junior entering the portal is doing so because they need to seek out a graduate degree to qualify for a fourth year on the field. And I strongly, strongly suspect that Stanford forces students who are eligible to graduate in four years to do so, because otherwise wouldn't every Stanford athlete who could drag it out so they could get a fifth year on the Farm? I
I do not believe this is correct (and am with 82LSJU on this).
Plus, it's 2 quarters before graduation. Students can take fewer units if you really think Stanford will boot you once you get your major-minimum units.
Kids with eligibility leaving the program - including entering "the portal" - is not a good look for Stanford (or others). But i do agree with Lex that Stanford benefits very little from transfer portal transitions, certainly far less than other schools.
2016 grad here, friend of multiple football players who took a 5th year.
Teejers is correct. 5th-year seniors sometimes "drag out" their undergrad degrees, waiting to take 1 core class necessary for graduation until their 5th year fall quarter. They can graduate after the season, and don't have to spend the full 5th year in school if they don't want to (of course, anyone who is coterming stays).
RE: The portal - BostonCard - 12-06-2019
One could check with the Stanford website...
https://exploredegrees.stanford.edu/undergraduatedegreesandprograms/#minimumprogresstext
Quote:Undergraduates are expected to finish their degree requirements in a timely fashion. In addition to maintaining academic progress obligations, students are expected to take courses to progress towards a Bachelor of Arts or a Bachelor of Science degree. If after 12 quarters, an undergraduate is not on track to complete degree requirements and graduate within the next two quarters, the University may impose requirements with deadlines on a student's course of study. Further, if a student fails to meet those imposed requirements and/or has not after 18 quarters completed all degree requirements, the University may discontinue the student for failure to progress.
Seems clear that the first quarter of a fifth year (13th quarter) is fine assuming that he is "on track to complete degree requirements", unless the university is including summer quarters in the count.
BC