The 150 greatest coaches in college football's 150-year history

The 150 greatest coaches in college football's 150-year history - Printable Version

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The 150 greatest coaches in college football's 150-year history - 82lsju - 12-10-2019

ones with Stanford ties

11. Pop Warner
17. Walter Camp
18. Fielding Yost
128. Clark Shaughnessey

https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/page/CFB150coaches/the-150-greatest-coaches-college-football-150-year-history

RE: The 150 greatest coaches in college football's 150-year history - cardcrimson - 12-10-2019

(12-10-2019, 10:39 AM)82lsju Wrote: ones with Stanford ties

11. Pop Warner
17. Walter Camp
18. Fielding Yost
128. Clark Shaughnessey

https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/page/CFB150coaches/the-150-greatest-coaches-college-football-150-year-history

Many here will be stunned, stunned, that Shaw's not on the list. . . .

RE: The 150 greatest coaches in college football's 150-year history - BostonCard - 12-10-2019

Active coaches:
2. Nick Saban
31. Dabo Sweeny
59. Mack Brown
74. Gary Patterson
89. Brian Kelly
110. Jimbo Fisher
126. Jeff Devany (Trinity)
140. Les Miles

I may have missed a couple, and a few like Chris Peteresen, Urban Meyer, Paul Johnson, Mark Richt and Bill Snyder are recently "retired".

BC

RE: The 150 greatest coaches in college football's 150-year history - d4cohn - 12-10-2019

(12-10-2019, 10:45 AM)cardcrimson Wrote:
(12-10-2019, 10:39 AM)82lsju Wrote: ones with Stanford ties

11. Pop Warner
17. Walter Camp
18. Fielding Yost
128. Clark Shaughnessey

https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/page/CFB150coaches/the-150-greatest-coaches-college-football-150-year-history

Many here will be stunned, stunned, that Shaw's not on the list. . . .

I mean, while this certainly not the banner year for Coach Shaw's candidacy, if Brian Kelly (who also had a 4-8 year) and Gary Patterson are going to make this list, then I don't think Coach Shaw's performance is demonstrably worse than either of them. Sure, ND has made a BCS Championship Game and CFP semifinal (where ND promptly got crushed both times), but the resources at ND and football tradition is simply greater. And I think Coach Shaw has a similar resume to Gary Patterson (all-time winningest coaches at respective schools, multiple BCS/NY6 bowl appearances etc.), if only Coach Patterson has been at TCU longer, while much of Patterson's success came in non P5 conferences.

I say that to say, I don't necessarily think Coach Shaw should be on the list, but Patterson, Paul Johnson, and Brian Kelly shouldn't be on the list either.

RE: The 150 greatest coaches in college football's 150-year history - BostonCard - 12-10-2019

On Patterson:

74. Gary Patterson, 172-70
TCU (2000-present)
Patterson has the rare distinction of winning conference titles (and being named Coach of the Year) in three different leagues at the same school. He shepherded the Horned Frogs from Conference USA to the Mountain West to the Big 12. His teams have won six league titles, posted seven top-10 finishes and played in 17 bowl games in his 20 seasons. In 2010, TCU went 13-0 and defeated Wisconsin 21-19 in the Rose Bowl.

On Johnson:
102. Paul Johnson, 189-99
Georgia Southern (1997-2001; 62-10), Navy (2002-07; 45-29), Georgia Tech (2008-18; 82-60)
Johnson guided Georgia Southern to a pair of I-AA national titles in five years before taking his triple-option offense to Navy and Georgia Tech. At Navy, he helped end the program's 43-game losing streak to Notre Dame and won the Commander-in-Chief's Trophy five times. Johnson was named ACC Coach of the Year three times at Georgia Tech.

On Kelly:

89. Brian Kelly, 241-93-2
Grand Valley State (1991-2003; 118-35-2), Central Michigan (2004-06; 19-16), Cincinnati (2006-09; 34-6) and Notre Dame (2010-current; 70-36)
Kelly led Grand Valley State to two Division II national championships. He won conference titles at Central Michigan (MAC) and Cincinnati (Big East). Though he hasn't won a national title at Notre Dame, he has come close: a BCS championship game loss in 2012 and a playoff semifinal loss in 2018. More importantly, he restored respectability to the Fighting Irish.

David Shaw's record is 86-34, so he's about halfway to Patterson's win total and behind Johnson and Kelly. Both Kelly and Johnson won a national title (albeit not with an FBS team) and Kelly has gone to the BCS championship and college football playoffs; Patterson has that 13-0 season. I pass for a "Shawpologist" in these parts, but I disagree that he being left off the list is an omission, or that some of the coaches on the list don't compare favorably to him.

Let's see what Shaw can do with another 10 years. If he recapitulates what he did in his first 8, then he will belong on the list. If we see what we have seen over the last 2, then he won't.

BC

RE: The 150 greatest coaches in college football's 150-year history - Spiny_Norman - 12-10-2019

Good to see the recognition for Jim Sochor at UC Davis. At one time, he was in the discussion to be Stanford's head coach.

RE: The 150 greatest coaches in college football's 150-year history - cardcrimson - 12-10-2019

My head scratchers from recent history are Pete Carroll, Jimmy Johnson, and Gene Stallings. The first two seem to be getting credit for their accomplishments in the pros, while Stallings was simply marginal, but did win one title.

RE: The 150 greatest coaches in college football's 150-year history - Austroturf - 12-10-2019

There also seems to be a longevity/age component to these rankings. My take is that Dabo Swinney, at just 50, is the youngest coach to make the list. Shaw has three more years until he reaches that ripe old age. Probably Pete Carroll (at #37) has the shortest NCAA head-coaching tenure of anybody on the list (9 seasons); but he packed a lot into those nine years (and some controversy, as well).

RE: The 150 greatest coaches in college football's 150-year history - BostonCard - 12-10-2019

(12-10-2019, 12:28 PM)cardcrimson Wrote: My head scratchers from recent history are Pete Carroll, Jimmy Johnson, and Gene Stallings. The first two seem to be getting credit for their accomplishments in the pros, while Stallings was simply marginal, but did win one title.

Carroll won a title as well (and a vacated title, if memory serves). I do think that the list should have downgraded coaches who had significant NCAA sanctions. If you had to cheat to win, are you really one of the best?

BC

RE: The 150 greatest coaches in college football's 150-year history - d4cohn - 12-10-2019

(12-10-2019, 12:09 PM)BostonCard Wrote: On Patterson:

74. Gary Patterson, 172-70
TCU (2000-present)
Patterson has the rare distinction of winning conference titles (and being named Coach of the Year) in three different leagues at the same school. He shepherded the Horned Frogs from Conference USA to the Mountain West to the Big 12. His teams have won six league titles, posted seven top-10 finishes and played in 17 bowl games in his 20 seasons. In 2010, TCU went 13-0 and defeated Wisconsin 21-19 in the Rose Bowl.

On Johnson:
102. Paul Johnson, 189-99
Georgia Southern (1997-2001; 62-10), Navy (2002-07; 45-29), Georgia Tech (2008-18; 82-60)
Johnson guided Georgia Southern to a pair of I-AA national titles in five years before taking his triple-option offense to Navy and Georgia Tech. At Navy, he helped end the program's 43-game losing streak to Notre Dame and won the Commander-in-Chief's Trophy five times. Johnson was named ACC Coach of the Year three times at Georgia Tech.

On Kelly:

89. Brian Kelly, 241-93-2
Grand Valley State (1991-2003; 118-35-2), Central Michigan (2004-06; 19-16), Cincinnati (2006-09; 34-6) and Notre Dame (2010-current; 70-36)
Kelly led Grand Valley State to two Division II national championships. He won conference titles at Central Michigan (MAC) and Cincinnati (Big East). Though he hasn't won a national title at Notre Dame, he has come close: a BCS championship game loss in 2012 and a playoff semifinal loss in 2018. More importantly, he restored respectability to the Fighting Irish.

David Shaw's record is 86-34, so he's about halfway to Patterson's win total and behind Johnson and Kelly. Both Kelly and Johnson won a national title (albeit not with an FBS team) and Kelly has gone to the BCS championship and college football playoffs; Patterson has that 13-0 season. I pass for a "Shawpologist" in these parts, but I disagree that he being left off the list is an omission, or that some of the coaches on the list don't compare favorably to him.

Let's see what Shaw can do with another 10 years. If he recapitulates what he did in his first 8, then he will belong on the list. If we see what we have seen over the last 2, then he won't.

BC

I guess I just don't put as much stalk into Patterson's, Johnson's and Kelly's I-AA or non P5 results. P5 football is a totally different animal than competing at the I-AA or non P5 level. To wit, Patterson has 1 conference title since TCU joined the Big 12 (and he also missed a bowl this year).

Like I said, I don't think Coach Shaw should necessarily be included, but I don't think particularly Paul Johnson and Patterson should be included either.

Stanford also could have gone to the playoff in either 2011, 2012, or 2013 if the playoff existed then (2013 might have been their best argument, as they finished #5 in final BCS rankings).

RE: The 150 greatest coaches in college football's 150-year history - BostonCard - 12-10-2019

That's fair, this is by definition a subjective assessment. I'll note that the piece includes the coach of Trinity college:

126. Jeff Devanney, 96-19
Trinity (2006-present)
Devanney has been nothing short of dominant since taking over as Trinity's head coach in December 2005, taking home NESCAC Coach of the Year honors four times in 14 seasons. His teams have gone undefeated three times, and they've won five conference titles.

I mean, it's a Division III school:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trinity_Bantams_football

For what it is worth, it looks like ESPN deliberately tried to have an expansive view of collegiate football:

Quote:Not only that, all four NCAA divisions and the NAIA are represented. John Gagliardi, the all-time leader in wins (489) at any level, is No. 16. Nine HBCU coaches made the top 150, from No. 5 Eddie Robinson of Grambling to No. 145 W.C. Gorden of Jackson State.

(would be hard to think of a list of college coaches that didn't include Eddie Robinson, even if his teams never competed at the highest level).

BC

RE: The 150 greatest coaches in college football's 150-year history - Mick - 12-10-2019

There's an embedded link to the 150 greatest football teams. Was wondering where they'd place the undefeated/untied/uninvited USF Dons, the team with nine future NFL players, five of which became Pro Bowlers, four elected to the NFL Football Hall of Fame - a record for a single college team. The Dons beat eight of their nine opponents by at least 18 points. Coached by Joe Kuharich, future ND and NFL (21 years) head coach. Late in his NFL career, Ollie Matson had rushed 13 times for 20 yards, but Kuharich felt he had more left, and traded for him. Presto, 404 yards, 5 TDs. Matson also won a silver medal in the 1952 Olympics on the 4 x 400 team.

Orange Bowl wanted to invite USF to play, but they would have had to leave their two African American players (Burl Toler and Ollie Matson) at home. No way, says the team.

Anyway, USF's amazing 1951 team is ranked...#144.

https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/page/CFB150teams/the-150-greatest-teams-college-football-150-year-history

RE: The 150 greatest coaches in college football's 150-year history - BobK - 12-10-2019

Plus USF’s SID Pete Rozelle

RE: The 150 greatest coaches in college football's 150-year history - 82lsju - 12-10-2019

(12-10-2019, 07:36 PM)Mick Wrote: There's an embedded link to the 150 greatest football teams. Was wondering where they'd place the undefeated/untied/uninvited USF Dons, the team with nine future NFL players, five of which became Pro Bowlers, four elected to the NFL Football Hall of Fame - a record for a single college team. The Dons beat eight of their nine opponents by at least 18 points. Coached by Joe Kuharich, future ND and NFL (21 years) head coach. Late in his NFL career, Ollie Matson had rushed 13 times for 20 yards, but Kuharich felt he had more left, and traded for him. Presto, 404 yards, 5 TDs. Matson also won a silver medal in the 1952 Olympics on the 4 x 400 team.

Orange Bowl wanted to invite USF to play, but they would have had to leave their two African American players (Burl Toler and Ollie Matson) at home. No way, says the team.

Anyway, USF's amazing 1951 team is ranked...#144.

https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/page/CFB150teams/the-150-greatest-teams-college-football-150-year-history

good read on the team

https://www.amazon.com/Undefeated-Untied-Uninvited-Kristine-Setting/dp/1580001076

RE: The 150 greatest coaches in college football's 150-year history - Phogge - 12-11-2019

Also HOFers Bob St. Claire and Dick Stanfel. And university publicist Pierre Salinger. And Burl Toler. May have been the best among them. Was hurt in the College/NFL Champion All Star game in ‘52 and never played in the pros. Went on to become the first AA principal in the SFUSD and the first black ref in the NFL.

Plus future pros Red Stephens, Ed Brown and Scooter Scudero.

Plus Vince Tringali, the only local HS coach to win a national championship (SI ‘62) other than BOb Ladeceur.

Stanford and reigning PCC champ Cal ducked them.

RE: The 150 greatest coaches in college football's 150-year history - cctop - 12-11-2019

(12-11-2019, 08:32 AM)Phogge Wrote: And Burl Toler. May have been the best among them. Was hurt in the College/NFL Champion All Star game in ‘52 and never played in the pros. Went on to become the first AA principal in the SFUSD and the first black ref in the NFL.

Burl Toler's name is on the building of my kid's school in SF.

I confess that even though I was born in SF and I'm over 50, I had to look up who Toler was when I noticed his name above the entrance earlier this year.

I'm generally opposed to naming public areas after people (especially people who are still alive) but I suppose that's a good example of why we do it.

RE: The 150 greatest coaches in college football's 150-year history - BobK - 12-11-2019

I went to Hearst
then Commodore sloat so nothing new

Tolar died about 10 years ago. USF also named a building after him

RE: The 150 greatest coaches in college football's 150-year history - Phogge - 12-12-2019

Burl’s legacy is his kids and grandkids. One of the greatest families I have had the pleasure of knowing.