#1 Teams and National Championships - Printable Version
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#1 Teams and National Championships - ColoradoTree - 12-10-2019
As we know, women's basketball rise to #1 in the rankings was the fifth Stanford team so far this year to reach the top spot in the rankings. The first four were women's volleyball, women's soccer, men's soccer, and men's water polo.
The preseason men's gymnastics rankings are now out, and the defending national champion Stanford Cardinal are #1 there, too. So that's now six different Stanford teams who have been ranked #1 for at least part of the season. Goodness. Of course, the only two of those #1 teams to finish their seasons so far--men's water polo and women's soccer--have finished #1, too.
And the two national championships so far mean Stanford is now seven NCAA team titles ahead of UCLA:
1. Stanford 125
2. UCLA 118
3. USC 107
The next highest is Oklahoma State with 52.
But there's more! The women's soccer title meant that Stanford had finally tied UCLA with 138* Division 1 national championships overall, including AIAW-sponsored championships for women before the NCAA sponsored those sports, other pre-NCAA national championships, and non-NCAA men's rowing titles, etc. So, one more NCAA title (or women's synchro, or men's rowing) for us will mean that no matter how you slice it and how inclusive you want to be in terms of which titles count, Stanford has won the most Division 1 titles of any school.
* But for UCLA's vacated 1995 softball title, UCLA would still lead 139-138 in terms of overall national championships.
RE: #1 Teams and National Championships - BobK - 12-10-2019
If the sham pitcher had pitched ucla to the title she would t have cone close to winning.
RE: #1 Teams and National Championships - SamuelMcF - 12-10-2019
(12-10-2019, 12:37 PM)ColoradoTree Wrote: The preseason men's gymnastics rankings are now out, and the defending national champion Stanford Cardinal are #1 there, too. So that's now six different Stanford teams who have been ranked #1 for at least part of the season. Goodness. Of course, the only two of those #1 teams to finish their seasons so far--men's water polo and women's soccer--have finished #1, too.
This part has me naturally wondering: across all sports, how many preseason #1 teams have finished #1/won the national championship? I'm sure the odds are better than starting at another ranking, but wonder by how much.
RE: #1 Teams and National Championships - BostonCard - 12-10-2019
Here's the data for football.
https://www.footballstudyhall.com/2013/8/19/4635868/morning-bell-8-19
Quote:Over the last 15 years (i.e. the "BCS era"), the writers have been pretty good at spotting the frontrunners: Almost half of eventual BCS champions (7 of 15) began the season ranked No. 1 or No. 2, and all but three started in the top ten. Of the 120 teams in that span tabbed to finish in the top eight, 104 of them landed somewhere in the final poll, and well over half finished in the top ten.
BC
RE: #1 Teams and National Championships - Spiny_Norman - 12-10-2019
At the end of the fall season, women's golf is #5. If Lee and Valenzuela had remained on the golf team, I have every confidence that they would have been #1 at some point during the spring.
However frosh Angelina Ye is currently the #1 ranked player in the country.
RE: #1 Teams and National Championships - Farm93 - 12-10-2019
(12-10-2019, 12:57 PM)BostonCard Wrote: Here's the data for football.Of course in football the pollsters and media types have always played a role in picking the winner so I don’t think this sport reveals much.
https://www.footballstudyhall.com/2013/8/19/4635868/morning-bell-8-19
Quote:Over the last 15 years (i.e. the "BCS era"), the writers have been pretty good at spotting the frontrunners: Almost half of eventual BCS champions (7 of 15) began the season ranked No. 1 or No. 2, and all but three started in the top ten. Of the 120 teams in that span tabbed to finish in the top eight, 104 of them landed somewhere in the final poll, and well over half finished in the top ten.
BC
I would be more interested in knowing if the #1 in preseason polls goes on to win a real nationwide postseason tournament in that sport. Where no more than one team can finish undefeated and the postseason process included most teams with credible title aspirations
RE: #1 Teams and National Championships - ColoradoTree - 12-22-2019
With the women’s volleyball championship, Stanford moves to 3 NCAA titles on the [academic] year, 126 all-time, and finally takes the lead 139-138 over UCLA for total D-I team championships.
RE: #1 Teams and National Championships - terry - 12-22-2019
(12-22-2019, 12:18 AM)ColoradoTree Wrote: With the women’s volleyball championship, Stanford moves to 3 NCAA titles on the [academic] year, 126 all-time, and finally takes the lead 139-138 over UCLA for total D-I team championships.
The number of total team championships (including non-NCAA titles) is hard to pin down because different schools count different non-NCAA sports in determining their championship totals. Stanford currently is claiming 152 overall team championships.
How does Stanford's count of 152 championships differ from the 139 mentioned above? I'm not completely sure, but the difference is probably due to some combination of the following being included in Stanford's count of 152 championships, but not in the count of 139:
9 championships in women's lightweight rowing (IRA)
1940 football championship (Poling, Billingsley, and Helms systems)
unofficial 1942 men's tennis championship
unofficial 1963 men's water polo championship (coaches's poll)
1937-38 men's basketball championships (Helms)
1997 co-ed sailing championship (ICSA)
RE: #1 Teams and National Championships - Farm93 - 12-22-2019
(12-22-2019, 09:05 AM)terry Wrote:(12-22-2019, 12:18 AM)ColoradoTree Wrote: With the women’s volleyball championship, Stanford moves to 3 NCAA titles on the [academic] year, 126 all-time, and finally takes the lead 139-138 over UCLA for total D-I team championships.
The number of total team championships (including non-NCAA titles) is hard to pin down because different schools count different non-NCAA sports in determining their championship totals. Stanford currently is claiming 152 overall team championships.
How does Stanford's count of 152 championships differ from the 139 mentioned above? I'm not completely sure, but the difference is probably due to some combination of the following being included in Stanford's count of 152 championships, but not in the count of 139:
9 championships in women's lightweight rowing (IRA)
1940 football championship (Poling, Billingsley, and Helms systems)
unofficial 1942 men's tennis championship
unofficial 1963 men's water polo championship (coaches's poll)
1937-38 men's basketball championships (Helms)
1997 co-ed sailing championship (ICSA)
Stanford actually could claim more as several others have been won in non-NCAA sports.
The whole attempt to tally gets crazy quickly. ASU, for example, has some reasonable claim to ~146 national titles. Most in archery and badminton, which are Olympic sports.
Once leaving the realm of NCAA team titles it is possible to use very different methods.
Do you count non-NCAA titles in sports that are now NCAA sports? (beach volleyball, bowling, etc.)
Do you count titles in sports that are not NCAA sports, but are Olympic sports? (badminton, sailing, equestrian, etc.)
Do you just count literally any athletic contest? (rugby, paintball, rodeo, waterskiing, utlimate, etc.)
And why stop there?
Cornhole has a title format AND the "sport" is televised on the ESPN family of networks.
It gets murky quickly. Best to just stay with NCAA titles.
Great for other teams to win team and individual titles in their sports (ultimate, lightweight rowing, synchronized swimming, etc.), but the Pac-12 and Stanford AD should stick with promoting NCAA team and NCAA individual titles.
What year was it when we caught, passed, were caught by, and passed UCLA? - muiron - 12-22-2019
What was the year when we caught UCLA, passed UCLA, were tied by UCLA, and then passed them again?
Serious question (and I think I've got the order right).
It wasn't THAT long ago - and now we're up 8!
RE: What year was it when we caught, passed, were caught by, and passed UCLA? - Farm93 - 12-22-2019
(12-22-2019, 02:57 PM)muiron Wrote: What was the year when we caught UCLA, passed UCLA, were tied by UCLA, and then passed them again?USC and UCLA are meaningful powers in men's water polo, women's water polo and beach volleyball so closing the gap could be done in a couple of years.
Serious question (and I think I've got the order right).
It wasn't THAT long ago - and now we're up 8!
Today
Stanford 126
UCLA 118
USC 107
June 2019
Stanford 123
UCLA 118
USC 107
June 2018
Stanford 117
UCLA 116
USC 106
June 2017
Stanford 113
UCLA 113
USC 104
June 2016
UCLA 113
Stanford 109
USC 102
In that 2017-2018 season both started with 113
UCLA moved to 114 with men's water polo
Stanford jumped to 114 & 115 with men's and women's soccer
Stanford got to 116 in the winter with women's swim
UCLA got to 115 with women's gymnastics
UCLA got to 116 with beach volleyball to get it back to level
Stanford got to 117 with women's tennis.
The Stanford Class of 2020 came to The Farm with Stanford at 109 to UCLA's 113.
And so far that class has watched Stanford add 17 NCAA titles while UCLA has collected 5 and USC has also collected 5.
RE: #1 Teams and National Championships - ColoradoTree - 12-23-2019
This list --
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_NCAA_schools_with_the_most_Division_I_national_championships#%22Other_Team_Titles%22_column -- is the one I was referencing, but now that I look at it more closely, we appear to still be tied at 138 by that count. (The NCAA total of 126 counts a men's golf championship that was pre-NCAA, but this list omits it and has us at 125 NCAA titles--I had previously figured they just hadn't updated the NCAA championships total to include volleyball, but they're actually just being more precise.)
The 138 total counts NCAA titles, football titles, AIAW titles, and "other team titles" to get to the total.
The "other team titles" counted for Stanford are: men's golf (1938), 8x women's synchro (1998, 1999, 2005-08, 2013, 2016), and women's water polo (1985).
The "other team titles" counted for UCLA are: women's golf (1971); women's volleyball (1972); 5x men's volleyball (1953, 54, 56, 65, 67); 4x women's water polo (1996–98, 2000).
That metric appears to count any sport that has ever been NCAA-sponsored and all of its historic titles, regardless of whether they were won under NCAA competition or pre-NCAA competition. The exceptions are men's rowing (long established but non-NCAA) and women's equestrian (which is recognized under the NCAA as an emerging sport).
I would imagine that women's lightweight rowing is left out because it's something of a double-counter, when women's rowing is otherwise recognized as an NCAA sport.
RE: #1 Teams and National Championships - Farm93 - 12-23-2019
(12-23-2019, 09:14 AM)ColoradoTree Wrote: This list --Don't bother. Fake precision at work. Football titles are far from precise. In many years several football teams were declared national champions by different organizations. Nice for someone to have a wiki page to try to tally them up, but that effort always creates discrepancies.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_NCAA_schools_with_the_most_Division_I_national_championships#%22Other_Team_Titles%22_column -- is the one I was referencing, but now that I look at it more closely, we appear to still be tied at 138 by that count. (The NCAA total of 126 counts a men's golf championship that was pre-NCAA, but this list omits it and has us at 125 NCAA titles--I had previously figured they just hadn't updated the NCAA championships total to include volleyball, but they're actually just being more precise.)
The 138 total counts NCAA titles, football titles, AIAW titles, and "other team titles" to get to the total.
The "other team titles" counted for Stanford are: men's golf (1938), 8x women's synchro (1998, 1999, 2005-08, 2013, 2016), and women's water polo (1985).
The "other team titles" counted for UCLA are: women's golf (1971); women's volleyball (1972); 5x men's volleyball (1953, 54, 56, 65, 67); 4x women's water polo (1996–98, 2000).
That metric appears to count any sport that has ever been NCAA-sponsored and all of its historic titles, regardless of whether they were won under NCAA competition or pre-NCAA competition. The exceptions are men's rowing (long established but non-NCAA) and women's equestrian (which is recognized under the NCAA as an emerging sport).
I would imagine that women's lightweight rowing is left out because it's something of a double-counter, when women's rowing is otherwise recognized as an NCAA sport.
The tallying of the others, is always problematic.
Men's rowing historically just recognized the winner of the Varsity 8 as the winner, but the objective on the women's NCAA team title is to have best results across that regata. Also the men's regata was not really a national championship event and many great boats from different schools have skipped the event over the decades for various reasons.
Synchronized swimming is physically demanding, but why would it count? Synch swimming is a varsity sport for tOSU and they are current national champs, but "Spirit" is also a varsity sport at tOSU. More D1 schools compete in that championship with varsity teams than synchronized swimming.
Big props to those in ultimate, equestrian, synch swimming, rugby, paintball, spirit and quidditch that win championships every year, but the NCAA has a very nice tally that is recognized across D-1. And in that very nice definition 126, leads the pack. That's the one to lead because every other total title number can be altered dramatically to include or exclude sports and/or titles depending on the agenda.
FWIW -
ASU really does count paintball as one of their "other" titles on their wiki page.
Texas is the current defending quidditch champion
Seriously...stick with NCAA team titles because I don't want to give any credibility to the idea that others should count if they are at a level of popularity AND hold a recognized tournament to determine a college national champion because quidditch meets that standard.
RE: #1 Teams and National Championships - FarmBoy - 12-23-2019
I can't remember where I saw it, but I saw a comment somewhere that Stanford just won its 3rd national championship of December 2019 and no other school won that many in all of 2018-2019 school year.
RE: #1 Teams and National Championships - ColoradoTree - 12-23-2019
(12-23-2019, 12:17 PM)FarmBoy Wrote: I can't remember where I saw it, but I saw a comment somewhere that Stanford just won its 3rd national championship of December 2019 and no other school won that many in all of 2018-2019 school year.
Saw the same. It's pretty neat to get to root for these teams. Sure as heck takes the edge off a disappointing football season!
It's also nice to be a bit ahead of last year's pace, when we got two NCAA titles out of the fall on the way to six overall.
In any event, at the conclusion of the fall season, Stanford has three NCAA titles and 126 NCAA titles overall. Excited to see what the winter season brings! As a reminder, we got national titles last year from men's gymnastics and women's swimming, and while we're not going to be as dominant in women's swimming this year, we're right in the mix for both of those titles again. (Seems like it would be reasonable to hold out some hope for women's basketball, too, at least at this point in the season.)
RE: #1 Teams and National Championships - ColoradoTree - 01-08-2020
The preseason women's tennis rankings are out, and Stanford checks in at #1, making that the seventh Stanford team to be #1 at some point in the season.
Fall Sports
* Women's Volleyball (won NC)
* Men's Water Polo (won NC)
* Women's Soccer (won NC)
* Men's Soccer (lost in NCAA semifinals)
Winter Sports
* Women's basketball
* Men's gymnastics
Spring Sports
* Women's tennis
Any teams that I missed? I'd expect women's swimming to get to #1 at some point this year, too, but that's probably it for the winter sports.
RE: #1 Teams and National Championships - BostonCard - 01-08-2020
(01-08-2020, 11:51 AM)ColoradoTree Wrote: The preseason women's tennis rankings are out, and Stanford checks in at #1, making that the seventh Stanford team to be #1 at some point in the season.
Fall Sports
* Women's Volleyball (won NC)
* Men's Water Polo (won NC)
* Women's Soccer (won NC)
* Men's Soccer (lost in NCAA semifinals)
Winter Sports
* Women's basketball
* Men's gymnastics
Spring Sports
* Women's tennis
Any teams that I missed? I'd expect women's swimming to get to #1 at some point this year, too, but that's probably it for the winter sports.
CT, should we be surprised that we got the #1 ranking? My impression was that with the graduation of Lampl and Lee were were heading towards a bit of a rebuilding year.
Edit: Never mind, I just saw your post on the tennis thread. We should be surprised.
BC
RE: #1 Teams and National Championships - Spiny_Norman - 01-08-2020
Women's water polo will likely be #1 at some point during the season (if not #1 preseason).
Women's golf was close to being #1 in the fall. Not sure if that happened. But that was with Lee and Valenzuela who have now gone pro.
RE: #1 Teams and National Championships - M T - 01-08-2020
(01-08-2020, 11:51 AM)ColoradoTree Wrote: Any teams that I missed? I'd expect women's swimming to get to #1 at some point this year, too, but that's probably it for the winter sports.
For swimming, SwimSwam has 1. Cal, 2. Stanford.
Women's Water Polo would seem a good possibility, but we have two players (the Fischer sisters) that I believe are out this year as they're on the national team. UCLA is without Musselman, while USC is without Hauschild.
(Last year, CWPA released their 2019 preseason poll for WWP on Jan 16, so we should have their prediction soon. Last year, the poll did not have Stanford #1.)
RE: #1 Teams and National Championships - ColoradoTree - 01-08-2020
(01-08-2020, 12:19 PM)BostonCard Wrote: CT, should we be surprised that we got the #1 ranking? My impression was that with the graduation of Lampl and Lee were were heading towards a bit of a rebuilding year.
Edit: Never mind, I just saw your post on the tennis thread. We should be surprised.
BC
Yeah, it's a bit surprising. I figured Top 5, for sure, but I was expecting UNC to be #1 and I wouldn't have been surprised at all to see UCLA ranked ahead of us. Either way, we're in the mix and have to win the tough matches, but yeah, we've got some unanswered questions. (In fairness to Lele, though, those questions usually get answered pretty positively. And when you keep getting a couple blue chip recruits each year, any "lows" for the program aren't gonna be that low.)
(01-08-2020, 12:21 PM)Spiny_Norman Wrote: Women's water polo will likely be #1 at some point during the season (if not #1 preseason).
Women's golf was close to being #1 in the fall. Not sure if that happened. But that was with Lee and Valenzuela who have now gone pro.
I saw in Golfweek that we're the #3 preseason team, I think. And totally agreed on women's water polo. Once they hit that number, I'll add them to the list!