Timing for coaching changes? - Printable Version

Timing for coaching changes? - Printable Version

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Timing for coaching changes? - Row80Critic - 01-05-2020

If Coach Shaw were going to find a new OC or DC, would he have done so by now? When does that normally happen? I keep reading stories about other schools making changes, so am wondering if that means none will be forthcoming for Stanford football this year.

RE: Timing for coaching changes? - SamuelMcF - 01-05-2020

Mississippi State fired their HC a couple days ago, which seems very late.

Do you know who you're talking about? Of course no changes will be made. (He actually said so in an interview as well.)

RE: Timing for coaching changes? - cardcrimson - 01-05-2020

(01-05-2020, 10:57 AM)SamuelMcF Wrote: Mississippi State fired their HC a couple days ago, which seems very late.

Do you know who you're talking about? Of course no changes will be made. (He actually said so in an interview as well.)

Well, they lost. Their starting quarterback was injured in team fight at practice a day or so before the game. They've had discipline issues, apparently, all year.

RE: Timing for coaching changes? - yvonne - 01-05-2020

Usually now through the NFL coaching change period, which is now. I wouldn't expect any fancy announcement, even if it does happen. The Akina announcement was in early March.

RE: Timing for coaching changes? - JohnR34231 - 01-05-2020

Fisher DeBerry was a highly successful coach at Air Force who fell on hard times. He was finally told he had no choice but to make radical changes to his staff. He resigned rather than do it.
I wonder if Shaw would react that way.

RE: Timing for coaching changes? - Brickcity - 01-05-2020

(01-05-2020, 01:04 PM)JohnR34231 Wrote: Fisher DeBerry was a highly successful coach at Air Force who fell on hard times. He was finally told he had no choice but to make radical changes to his staff. He resigned rather than do it.
I wonder if Shaw would react that way.

Of course, it seems highly unlikely Muir would ever push it with Shaw. And, if he did, my guess is that Shaw would also quit. A more interesting question to me is, outside of being pushed by Muir, what would it take for Shaw to replace a coordinator?

RE: Timing for coaching changes? - qwerty49 - 01-05-2020

(01-05-2020, 01:04 PM)JohnR34231 Wrote: Fisher DeBerry was a highly successful coach at Air Force who fell on hard times. He was finally told he had no choice but to make radical changes to his staff. He resigned rather than do it.
I wonder if Shaw would react that way.

IMHO that is interesting but ultimately pointless conjecture as Muir would never be in a position to demand that of Shaw. And certainly at this point it's easy for some folks (who don't have insights to the recruiting and development pipeline) to dismiss this last year as an aberration, so relatively little pressure.

I really think what we see is what we get, as far as Shaw goes. Or maybe what we've seen is what we will get. The man sees himself as an X's and o's guy, and his in-game decision-making and clock management is suspect. He shows no sign of believing those are areas where a staff or role change would lead to improvement. Meanwhile, he's a great positive representative of the program and the University. So we like it, or lump it.

RE: Timing for coaching changes? - yvonne - 01-05-2020

(01-05-2020, 01:44 PM)qwerty49 Wrote:
(01-05-2020, 01:04 PM)JohnR34231 Wrote: Fisher DeBerry was a highly successful coach at Air Force who fell on hard times. He was finally told he had no choice but to make radical changes to his staff. He resigned rather than do it.
I wonder if Shaw would react that way.

IMHO that is interesting but ultimately pointless conjecture as Muir would never be in a position to demand that of Shaw.

That's funny because one of Stanford's longest standing recruiting coordinators said quite the opposite on the Council's Facebook page. My opinion is that your opinion is far from humble.

RE: Timing for coaching changes? - qwerty49 - 01-05-2020

(01-05-2020, 02:14 PM)yvonne Wrote:
(01-05-2020, 01:44 PM)qwerty49 Wrote:
(01-05-2020, 01:04 PM)JohnR34231 Wrote: Fisher DeBerry was a highly successful coach at Air Force who fell on hard times. He was finally told he had no choice but to make radical changes to his staff. He resigned rather than do it.
I wonder if Shaw would react that way.

IMHO that is interesting but ultimately pointless conjecture as Muir would never be in a position to demand that of Shaw.

That's funny because one of Stanford's longest standing recruiting coordinators said quite the opposite on the Council's Facebook page. My opinion is that your opinion is far from humble.

Well then let me humbly ask that you link that quote, boss.

RE: Timing for coaching changes? - teejers1 - 01-05-2020

(01-05-2020, 01:37 PM)Brickcity Wrote: Of course, it seems highly unlikely Muir would ever push it with Shaw. And, if he did, my guess is that Shaw would also quit.

I'll give you the first sentence. But the second? C'mon, now.

Shaw is lots of things (stubborn, inflated sense of his capabilities as an O guy, etc.). But he is not stupid. The guy has 3 kids coming up into college application ranks. He makes a ton of coin at the cushiest/non-pressurized coaching job in the country.

If Muir said "you need to hire an OC and get out of his way - or else you can look for work elsewhere," then you really think that Shaw would quit?

Could not disagree more.

But regrettably, your first sentence controls.

RE: Timing for coaching changes? - 82lsju - 01-05-2020

(01-05-2020, 03:59 PM)teejers1 Wrote:
(01-05-2020, 01:37 PM)Brickcity Wrote: Of course, it seems highly unlikely Muir would ever push it with Shaw. And, if he did, my guess is that Shaw would also quit.

I'll give you the first sentence. But the second? C'mon, now.

Shaw is lots of things (stubborn, inflated sense of his capabilities as an O guy, etc.). But he is not stupid. The guy has 3 kids coming up into college application ranks. He makes a ton of coin at the cushiest/non-pressurized coaching job in the country.

If Muir said "you need to hire an OC and get out of his way - or else you can look for work elsewhere," then you really think that Shaw would quit?

Could not disagree more.

But regrettably, your first sentence controls.

I doubt he would quit in the above scenario as that probably leave lots of money on the table as I assume at least part of his contract is guaranteed, he'd make Muir fire him, which really seems unlikely

RE: Timing for coaching changes? - Brickcity - 01-05-2020

(01-05-2020, 03:59 PM)teejers1 Wrote:
(01-05-2020, 01:37 PM)Brickcity Wrote: Of course, it seems highly unlikely Muir would ever push it with Shaw. And, if he did, my guess is that Shaw would also quit.

I'll give you the first sentence. But the second? C'mon, now.

Shaw is lots of things (stubborn, inflated sense of his capabilities as an O guy, etc.). But he is not stupid. The guy has 3 kids coming up into college application ranks. He makes a ton of coin at the cushiest/non-pressurized coaching job in the country.

If Muir said "you need to hire an OC and get out of his way - or else you can look for work elsewhere," then you really think that Shaw would quit?

Could not disagree more.

But regrettably, your first sentence controls.

Fair enough. I can definitely understand why almost anyone would swallow his pride and fire the offensive or defensive coordinator. Shaw probably would too...then again...

RE: Timing for coaching changes? - yvonne - 01-05-2020

(01-05-2020, 03:15 PM)qwerty49 Wrote:
(01-05-2020, 02:14 PM)yvonne Wrote:
(01-05-2020, 01:44 PM)qwerty49 Wrote:
(01-05-2020, 01:04 PM)JohnR34231 Wrote: Fisher DeBerry was a highly successful coach at Air Force who fell on hard times. He was finally told he had no choice but to make radical changes to his staff. He resigned rather than do it.
I wonder if Shaw would react that way.

IMHO that is interesting but ultimately pointless conjecture as Muir would never be in a position to demand that of Shaw.

That's funny because one of Stanford's longest standing recruiting coordinators said quite the opposite on the Council's Facebook page. My opinion is that your opinion is far from humble.

Well then let me humbly ask that you link that quote, boss.

Here you go, Mr. Chan.

RE: Timing for coaching changes? - OutsiderFan - 01-05-2020

Since my code of ethics prohibits me from ever going on any web page connected to Facebook, can someone kindly summarize what is in that link above?

As much as Shaw’s job is coaching the football team, Muir’s is department finances and oversight of coaches. He can and should make suggestions for improvements, but it is Shaw’s call to make them or not. If performance ever deteriorated to the point a Head Coaching change was needed, it would no longer matter. Shaw is smart enough to know this.

So Muir could say something like “if you haven’t considered a new OC or DC, from the outside looking in, it feels like that could improve team performance.” Shaw could say he feels good about things in response, knowing that if things don’t improve after hearing the suggestion, his credibility is hurt. But if performance does improve without staff changes, his hand is strengthened.

At the end of the day, it’s a performance business. Everyone involved knows this.

RE: Timing for coaching changes? - BostonCard - 01-05-2020

(01-05-2020, 06:46 PM)OutsiderFan Wrote: Since my code of ethics prohibits me from ever going on any web page connected to Facebook, can someone kindly summarize what is in that link above?

I believe the term for this is ethics laundering. If you think it is ethically wrong to use Facebook, then you shouldn’t advocate others do it on your behalf. If, on the other hand, you value some information originating on Facebook, then just click the damned link.

BC

RE: Timing for coaching changes? - qwerty49 - 01-05-2020

(01-05-2020, 06:46 PM)OutsiderFan Wrote: Since my code of ethics prohibits me from ever going on any web page connected to Facebook, can someone kindly summarize what is in that link above?

It's a private Facebook group so I can't see the post she referred to.

I am just going to back off and take Yvonne's word for it.

RE: Timing for coaching changes? - 82lsju - 01-05-2020

(01-05-2020, 08:39 PM)qwerty49 Wrote:
(01-05-2020, 06:46 PM)OutsiderFan Wrote: Since my code of ethics prohibits me from ever going on any web page connected to Facebook, can someone kindly summarize what is in that link above?

It's a private Facebook group so I can't see the post she referred to.

I am just going to back off and take Yvonne's word for it.

if you're on Facebook you can join, at least they let me in when I asked to join the group......

I manage the Facebook group for my class and it is also "private" but we let in anyone remotely connected to our class

RE: Timing for coaching changes? - OutsiderFan - 01-05-2020

(01-05-2020, 08:13 PM)BostonCard Wrote:
(01-05-2020, 06:46 PM)OutsiderFan Wrote: Since my code of ethics prohibits me from ever going on any web page connected to Facebook, can someone kindly summarize what is in that link above?

I believe the term for this is ethics laundering. If you think it is ethically wrong to use Facebook, then you shouldn’t advocate others do it on your behalf. If, on the other hand, you value some information originating on Facebook, then just click the damned link.

BC

I’m an atheist, but don’t tell others they have no right to their religious beliefs because I find any and all of them illegitimate. I’m also not telling anyone what they should or shouldn’t do vis-a-vis Facebook.

Just like believing or not believing in religion is everyone’s right, so to is using or not using websites or online apps. Yet here you are BC, totally disrespecting my choice, and suggesting that me consuming any information from a source I find objectionable that others might not, proves my position has no merit.

More to the point, I’m only interested in the information I asked about, not where it might be found, and it’s not like it originated on a website anyway. It was put their by someone. As far as we know, it might be available somewhere else too.

The irony here is the only reason I mentioned my disdain for Facebook was because I knew I couldn’t ask someone what was said when a link was posted that everyone could tell me to click to see for myself. I had to express my belief system to explain my ask and did so because I felt it would be respected here.

RE: Timing for coaching changes? - CornFed - 01-05-2020

(01-05-2020, 09:18 PM)OutsiderFan Wrote:
(01-05-2020, 08:13 PM)BostonCard Wrote:
(01-05-2020, 06:46 PM)OutsiderFan Wrote: Since my code of ethics prohibits me from ever going on any web page connected to Facebook, can someone kindly summarize what is in that link above?

I believe the term for this is ethics laundering. If you think it is ethically wrong to use Facebook, then you shouldn’t advocate others do it on your behalf. If, on the other hand, you value some information originating on Facebook, then just click the damned link.

BC

I’m an atheist, but don’t tell others they have no right to their religious beliefs because I find any and all of them illegitimate. I’m also not telling anyone what they should or shouldn’t do vis-a-vis Facebook.

Just like believing or not believing in religion is everyone’s right, so to is using or not using websites or online apps. Yet here you are BC, totally disrespecting my choice, and suggesting that me consuming any information from a source I find objectionable that others might not, proves my position has no merit.

More to the point, I’m only interested in the information I asked about, not where it might be found, and it’s not like it originated on a website anyway. It was put their by someone. As far as we know, it might be available somewhere else too.

The irony here is the only reason I mentioned my disdain for Facebook was because I knew I couldn’t ask someone what was said when a link was posted that everyone could tell me to click to see for myself. I had to express my belief system to explain my ask and did so because I felt it would be respected here.

It's kind of like asking me to pray for you to receive grace.

RE: Timing for coaching changes? - GK3 - 01-06-2020

(01-05-2020, 10:02 PM)CornFed Wrote:
(01-05-2020, 09:18 PM)OutsiderFan Wrote:
(01-05-2020, 08:13 PM)BostonCard Wrote:
(01-05-2020, 06:46 PM)OutsiderFan Wrote: Since my code of ethics prohibits me from ever going on any web page connected to Facebook, can someone kindly summarize what is in that link above?

I believe the term for this is ethics laundering. If you think it is ethically wrong to use Facebook, then you shouldn’t advocate others do it on your behalf. If, on the other hand, you value some information originating on Facebook, then just click the damned link.

BC

I’m an atheist, but don’t tell others they have no right to their religious beliefs because I find any and all of them illegitimate. I’m also not telling anyone what they should or shouldn’t do vis-a-vis Facebook.

Just like believing or not believing in religion is everyone’s right, so to is using or not using websites or online apps. Yet here you are BC, totally disrespecting my choice, and suggesting that me consuming any information from a source I find objectionable that others might not, proves my position has no merit.

More to the point, I’m only interested in the information I asked about, not where it might be found, and it’s not like it originated on a website anyway. It was put their by someone. As far as we know, it might be available somewhere else too.

The irony here is the only reason I mentioned my disdain for Facebook was because I knew I couldn’t ask someone what was said when a link was posted that everyone could tell me to click to see for myself. I had to express my belief system to explain my ask and did so because I felt it would be respected here.

It's kind of like asking me to pray for you to receive grace.

I think it is VERY unlikely that anyone within the University would try and dictate to Shaw that he should make a staff change unless that person was involved in something the University found reprehensible and Shaw took no action. Until this happens, or we suffer through multiple years like the last, I do not think anyone would try and tell Shaw how to run his program. It generally seems to take about 4 years of true incompetence to get someone fired unless you are named Teevens or Harris. Since 1940 half of our coaches have won more games than they have lost, only two have a winning percentage North of 70%. Stanford has not proven to have its identity tied up with a program that wins constantly. I do think that there might be some chance Shaw would listen to someone with Stanford ties and proven success as an athlete, someone like himself, but I don't think the time has come for someone like that to step up and say something privately to Shaw. Shaw wants to win and beginning to have multiple losing years would probably prompt him to take action on his own, it just won't be as fast as some here want to see the action taken.

I also think that the system of power football introduced by Harbaugh and continued by Shaw has run its course as a dominant, winning system. Like the single wing and many other systems that came and won for a period of time, defensive coaches figure out how to stop them. I would not be surprised if we don't revert to becoming once more a passing school. Assembling and coaching up a dominant offensive line on a consistent basis has proven to be very difficult. You do not need that kind of line to throw the ball effectively. But no matter the offensive system, if you can't play defense the the offensive system doesn't matter a great deal.