WBB: Youthful Team and Unpredictable Season Ripe for Analysis - Printable Version
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WBB: Youthful Team and Unpredictable Season Ripe for Analysis - Baez87 - 01-11-2020
Women's basketball is having a most unpredictable year. Teams that are ranked first in the nation suffer the curse (of being beaten and deposed) and teams that are aspiring to be seated number one are curtailed before being anointed (note Oregon's upset loss). Yes, and even perennial favorites (TENN and ND) aren’t in the playoff conversation this year. By Saturday morning of this weekend at least six top 25 teams were beaten by lower or unranked teams and many others were challenged, even before Saturday and Sunday's results were posted.
If unpredictability breeds excitement, we have it in spades this year! It must give hope to the "have nots" and scare the hell out of those coaches, teams, players, and fans that have had a lock on the sport in the past several years.
Unpredictability provides an exciting arena for players (young adults barely old enough to vote) and their coaches (many approaching health or age retirement). And, as fans, we can live in the midst of hopes and dreams of reaching the next Final Four while our home team battles their next adversary.
Of course, there is a downside—anxiety, ulcers, disappointment, hurt feelings, and lost coaching jobs; but, hey, we’ve chosen to be sports fans of a win-lose enterprise, so we might as well choose to "always look on the bright side of life" (as Monty Python reminds us).
So here we sit, noting the lack of perfection of a group of very young adults who have pummeled our cross-bay rival, share first place in the Pac-12, have a coveted 14-1 record on the season, and are loaded with talent for the foreseeable future.
In the midst of this success, we have contributors on the Cardboard who really know the ins and outs of the sports and players (although I could do without the inane or off-topic postings). Also, I love to attend the Chalk Talks to hear the coaches’ perspectives on the opposition, strategies on the upcoming game, insights about player development, and big-picture news of the game. Let’s strive to keep our focus on those strategic features and not reduce our focus to things that need to be addressed by Operations, such as the need to provide player rosters and game-time stats.
Analysis and a healthy focus on the critical aspects of the game help us to become better fans and spectators. We are fortunate that people are willing to provide and maintain such a forum.
RE: WBB: Youthful Team and Unpredictable Season Ripe for Analysis - M T - 01-11-2020
I appreciate Baez87's remarks, and understand them to be an urging toward continued good behavior on this board.
I want to thank the organizers & members of the Cardboard for providing & maintaining a well-behaved and respectful forum for discussing Stanford sports. I've experienced some bad behavior on this board, but it was corrected quickly. I don't agree with some of the opinions of some of the posters, but I feel I should be able to deal with that. As for the off-topic material, I find that is mostly easy to ignore.
Respectfully, I would disagree with a call to not talk about things beyond Stanford athletes' performances. I would vote that discussions of the band, the Dollies, the operations, the facilities, post-Stanford careers, prospects, opponents, media coverage, etc. are well within my area of interest in Stanford sports.
RE: WBB: Youthful Team and Unpredictable Season Ripe for Analysis - BobK - 01-11-2020
Baez, nice post. I ask questions at the chalk talks but never about operations. Agree with you.
Funny thing rosters were available at the game. South end
But I was highly po’d that they couldn’t show the former players on the big screen. Sure I saw the. Early on but Geesh show them
Also blanking our stats during time outs when we have time to look is crazy.
Do you go to wvb chalk talks? Outstanding wish the WBB coaches would try to do what Hambly does
RE: WBB: Youthful Team and Unpredictable Season Ripe for Analysis - 81alum - 01-11-2020
(01-11-2020, 07:29 PM)BobK Wrote: .This has been a pet peeve of mine and I have complained several times on the annual surveys they seem to do.
Also blanking our stats during time outs when we have time to look is crazy.
Here is a question about stats. Every time-out a fellow walks across from the scorer's table with a print-out of stats and brings them to the TV announcers, who sit right in front of me. Why? The announcers always have current stats up on their computer monitors. Why the endless trips across the court with paper stats? Are they getting something different than the online stats show?
On the national anthem: I really liked the Band's performance. That arrangement is one of Arthur Barnes's better achievements. The trumpet solo followed by the orchestral accompaniment was performed at Big Game 8 days after JFK's assassination, and by all accounts you could hear a pin drop. Maybe one of you was there? I've always loved that version and wondered why our band only played it at football games. I'm happy to now have heard it at Maples, especially given that the pep band seems to be of higher quality than the stadium band. The trumpet soloist was awesome.
RE: WBB: Youthful Team and Unpredictable Season Ripe for Analysis - BobK - 01-11-2020
Yes I was there and was telling people around me the history. It was awesome.
RE: WBB: Youthful Team and Unpredictable Season Ripe for Analysis - 81alum - 01-11-2020
(01-11-2020, 08:26 PM)BobK Wrote: Yes I was there and was telling people around me the history. It was awesome.Another reason to be in awe of you Bob!
RE: WBB: Youthful Team and Unpredictable Season Ripe for Analysis - crackpot - 01-11-2020
(01-11-2020, 08:20 PM)81alum Wrote:(01-11-2020, 07:29 PM)BobK Wrote: .This has been a pet peeve of mine and I have complained several times on the annual surveys they seem to do.
Also blanking our stats during time outs when we have time to look is crazy.
Here is a question about stats. Every time-out a fellow walks across from the scorer's table with a print-out of stats and brings them to the TV announcers, who sit right in front of me. Why? The announcers always have current stats up on their computer monitors. Why the endless trips across the court with paper stats? Are they getting something different than the online stats show?
On the national anthem: I really liked the Band's performance. That arrangement is one of Arthur Barnes's better achievements. The trumpet solo followed by the orchestral accompaniment was performed at Big Game 8 days after JFK's assassination, and by all accounts you could hear a pin drop. Maybe one of you was there? I've always loved that version and wondered why our band only played it at football games. I'm happy to now have heard it at Maples, especially given that the pep band seems to be of higher quality than the stadium band. The trumpet soloist was awesome.
Triple agree. Best ever.
RE: WBB: Youthful Team and Unpredictable Season Ripe for Analysis - Phogge - 01-11-2020
I’ve been OFF TOPIC for most of my life. Probably inane too at times. But I survived the Jesuits thanks to a kindly priest who admired my curveball. I agree with the poster who ignores OT. Just don’t look and you won’t be bothered.
RE: WBB: Youthful Team and Unpredictable Season Ripe for Analysis - Baez87 - 01-12-2020
Truth be known, I don’t particularly care whether the Card Board discussions wander off point or speak to issues off the court from time to time. Sometimes non-game discussions can be quite entertaining. And, yes, if they offend, they can be ignored.
My comments were directed in part to the Chalk Talks before the Cal game. The coaches allocate a limited time for a pre-game talk in which they discuss the team's development and concerns for the upcoming game with the fans. Yesterday, it was Tempie's turn to address the group. In my opinion, she is usually the coach that avails herself to the group more and answers most candidly. Unfortunately, many of yesterday's questions seemed to be operational in nature and out of her purview as coach. Her time could have been spent more effectively, and it appeared she ended the session early because of the tenor of the group's questioning. I would have preferred to hear her talk about the team's development and the game at hand from a coach's perspective.
RE: WBB: Youthful Team and Unpredictable Season Ripe for Analysis - 81alum - 01-12-2020
(01-12-2020, 01:04 AM)Baez87 Wrote: Truth be known, I don’t particularly care whether the Card Board discussions wander off point or speak to issues off the court from time to time. Sometimes non-game discussions can be quite entertaining. And, yes, if they offend, they can be ignored.I generally agree with your observation. There are a lot of fans at the chalk talks who are not very deeply into the strategy of the games, though, and they sometimes ask pretty superficial questions. Tempie of all people is the perfect coach to answer deeper or more edgy questions, because of her good nature and her willingness--with certain limits--to engage. I have discovered, however, that it is actually very difficult to ask a question that will elicit a meaningful answer since all the coaches are very circumspect in what they share. It pays to think out questions before going into the room. Usually questions about the other team--what kind of defense and what kind of offense do they run, which players on the other side are the most dangerous, etc. get straight answers. Asking about the injury status of our own players, what do we plan to do do defend the other team, how is our offense working, how well is our own player X doing--those questions get PR answers.
My comments were directed in part to the Chalk Talks before the Cal game. The coaches allocate a limited time for a pre-game talk in which they discuss the team's development and concerns for the upcoming game with the fans. Yesterday, it was Tempie's turn to address the group. In my opinion, she is usually the coach that avails herself to the group more and answers most candidly. Unfortunately, many of yesterday's questions seemed to be operational in nature and out of her purview as coach. Her time could have been spent more effectively, and it appeared she ended the session early because of the tenor of the group's questioning. I would have preferred to hear her talk about the team's development and the game at hand from a coach's perspective.
The coaches have to assume that 1) someone in communication with the other team is in the room, 2) family members and friends of our own players are in the room, and 3) anything they say might get posted in places like the Cardboard. They respond accordingly. I think a number of good question-askers have stopped asking questions because they sense this and don't want to put the coaches on the spot. Instead, a change of question-asking strategy is in order. Ask more about the opposing team, less about our own, and things should be fine.
RE: WBB: Youthful Team and Unpredictable Season Ripe for Analysis - Baez87 - 01-12-2020
Well said 81, as usual you have summarized the situation very well. The fans and the coaches are operating at different levels and the challenge is on us to ask questions that fall within the coaches' purview. The tendency is to ask the same old questions (Who is injured? Who is starting?), vacuous questions, or operational grips. A couple of weeks ago I tried to get Tempie to speculate on Carrington's injury by asking a hypothetical question, but she was quick to turn it back to the required HIPPAA response. I like your idea of formulating a good question before the session begins. The concept of a Chalk Talk is a good one, we can to make it better if we do our homework, especially in this season of upsets and unpredicability.
RE: WBB: Youthful Team and Unpredictable Season Ripe for Analysis - chimera - 01-12-2020
I would like to see the coaches use the time more like Hambly, the head women's volleyball coach, does. He comes to chalk talks with a few prepared thoughts to share about the upcoming game and the opponent. He gives fans there stuff to look for in the match, what is maybe unusual about how an opponent plays, stuff about their players, etc. He explains what went well or poorly in previous matches too, why did they struggle with a certain team, what they were trying to do and how well it worked. We learn a lot and that also draws more interesting questions because fans in the room have a basis for their questions. WBB coaches are too passive in how they approach chalk talks. They would get fewer questions they can't really answer like when so and so will come back from injury if they came ready with a few tidbits like that. What kind of offense does the opponent run, what sort of defense? Anything unique or interesting about how that team plays? Who are their key players and maybe who are their players not stars but glue players we could watch out for? What was the emphasis in practice this week to face that team? Stuff like that would help.
RE: WBB: Youthful Team and Unpredictable Season Ripe for Analysis - jonnyss - 01-12-2020
(01-12-2020, 10:24 AM)chimera Wrote: I would like to see the coaches use the time more like Hambly, the head women's volleyball coach, does. He comes to chalk talks with a few prepared thoughts to share about the upcoming game and the opponent. He gives fans there stuff to look for in the match, what is maybe unusual about how an opponent plays, stuff about their players, etc. He explains what went well or poorly in previous matches too, why did they struggle with a certain team, what they were trying to do and how well it worked. We learn a lot and that also draws more interesting questions because fans in the room have a basis for their questions. WBB coaches are too passive in how they approach chalk talks. They would get fewer questions they can't really answer like when so and so will come back from injury if they came ready with a few tidbits like that. What kind of offense does the opponent run, what sort of defense? Anything unique or interesting about how that team plays? Who are their key players and maybe who are their players not stars but glue players we could watch out for? What was the emphasis in practice this week to face that team? Stuff like that would help.
agreed!
RE: WBB: Youthful Team and Unpredictable Season Ripe for Analysis - BobK - 01-12-2020
Agree also. I would hope that the coaches for WBB would think it an honor to meet their fans. Thank you Tempie.
RE: WBB: Youthful Team and Unpredictable Season Ripe for Analysis - TheWildJacko - 01-12-2020
Speaking of unpredictability, who would have predicted that ASU would take down both OR and OSU this weekend? We play them on their court in the last game of the regular season—talk about a potentially dangerous matchup.
RE: WBB: Youthful Team and Unpredictable Season Ripe for Analysis - Baez87 - 01-13-2020
(01-12-2020, 10:24 AM)chimera Wrote: I would like to see the coaches use the time more like Hambly, the head women's volleyball coach, does. He comes to chalk talks with a few prepared thoughts to share about the upcoming game and the opponent. He gives fans there stuff to look for in the match, what is maybe unusual about how an opponent plays, stuff about their players, etc. He explains what went well or poorly in previous matches too, why did they struggle with a certain team, what they were trying to do and how well it worked. We learn a lot and that also draws more interesting questions because fans in the room have a basis for their questions. WBB coaches are too passive in how they approach chalk talks. They would get fewer questions they can't really answer like when so and so will come back from injury if they came ready with a few tidbits like that. What kind of offense does the opponent run, what sort of defense? Anything unique or interesting about how that team plays? Who are their key players and maybe who are their players not stars but glue players we could watch out for? What was the emphasis in practice this week to face that team? Stuff like that would help.Your suggestions would be great for the coaches to hear. Have you considered passing them on to Tara or one of the coaches that conduct the pre-game talks? Going into a game with an in-depth perspective, such as the one you have described, would really enhance the fan experience! Also, if the coaches don’t change their approach, fans use the ideas you shared as a basis for their questions.
RE: WBB: Youthful Team and Unpredictable Season Ripe for Analysis - BobK - 01-13-2020
I would fear any suggestions lead to the end of chalk talks.
FYI Lindy came or was sent to one of Hambly’s chalk talks. It didn’t take I guess
RE: WBB: Youthful Team and Unpredictable Season Ripe for Analysis - chimera - 01-13-2020
(01-13-2020, 09:20 AM)Baez87 Wrote:(01-12-2020, 10:24 AM)chimera Wrote: I would like to see the coaches use the time more like Hambly, the head women's volleyball coach, does. He comes to chalk talks with a few prepared thoughts to share about the upcoming game and the opponent. He gives fans there stuff to look for in the match, what is maybe unusual about how an opponent plays, stuff about their players, etc. He explains what went well or poorly in previous matches too, why did they struggle with a certain team, what they were trying to do and how well it worked. We learn a lot and that also draws more interesting questions because fans in the room have a basis for their questions. WBB coaches are too passive in how they approach chalk talks. They would get fewer questions they can't really answer like when so and so will come back from injury if they came ready with a few tidbits like that. What kind of offense does the opponent run, what sort of defense? Anything unique or interesting about how that team plays? Who are their key players and maybe who are their players not stars but glue players we could watch out for? What was the emphasis in practice this week to face that team? Stuff like that would help.Your suggestions would be great for the coaches to hear. Have you considered passing them on to Tara or one of the coaches that conduct the pre-game talks? Going into a game with an in-depth perspective, such as the one you have described, would really enhance the fan experience! Also, if the coaches don’t change their approach, fans use the ideas you shared as a basis for their questions.
I don't want to try to communicate this to them. I don't think it is hard to figure out that leading the discussion a bit more rather than just asking fans to come up with good questions would help, assuming they feel chalk talks need improvement, which maybe they don't... We saw Lindy at a WVB chalk talk this season so she has seen how Hambly does things. If anyone else wants to suggest this approach to the coaches, go for it!