We are being asked to report violators.

We are being asked to report violators. - Printable Version

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We are being asked to report violators. - TreesAndBirds - 03-21-2020

“It has prompted the Santa Clara District Attorney to ask residents to report people and businesses that are in violation of the county’s shelter in place order.

Anyone interested in reporting a possible violation can email pubhealthreferral@dao.sccgov.org, or call 408-792-2300 to leave a voicemail.”

https://www.mercurynews.com/number-of-covid-19-cases-in-santa-clara-county-jumps-by-more-than-one-third-in-24-hours

RE: We are being asked to report violators. - Mick - 03-21-2020

(03-21-2020, 09:07 PM)TreesAndBirds Wrote: “It has prompted the Santa Clara District Attorney to ask residents to report people and businesses that are in violation of the county’s shelter in place order.

Anyone interested in reporting a possible violation can email pubhealthreferral@dao.sccgov.org, or call 408-792-2300 to leave a voicemail.”

https://www.mercurynews.com/number-of-covid-19-cases-in-santa-clara-county-jumps-by-more-than-one-third-in-24-hours

Some of the residents on my block decided to have a "six-feet-apart-party" in our street. So about half the residents on my block left their houses so they could hang around outside with each other. Happily, the San Jose Shark star and his family didn't participate.

Sometimes they were six feet apart. Sometimes not.

RE: We are being asked to report violators. - 82lsju - 03-22-2020

we live next to an elementary school and park. We've walked through the park to get out of the house. We've seen groups using the playground, the tennis courts, and playing with their dogs. The groups are large enough that they don't appear to be co-residents of the same building.

Well yesterday we heard police over there three times on their PA telling people to disperse by order of the governor.

RE: We are being asked to report violators. - chrisk - 03-22-2020

(03-22-2020, 10:15 AM)82lsju Wrote: we live next two an elementary school and park. We've walked through the park to get out of the house. We've seen groups using the playground, the tennis courts, and playing with their dogs. The groups are large enough that they don't appear to be co-residents of the same building.

Well yesterday we heard police over there three times on their PA telling people to disperse by order of the governor.

The playgrounds are cordoned off.

Why not put some of the newly unemployed as security guards at each park to minimize the burden on police?

RE: We are being asked to report violators. - M T - 03-22-2020

(03-22-2020, 10:53 AM)chrisk Wrote: The playgrounds are cordoned off.

My daughter is having trouble finding anywhere that she can take her 2 & 4 year-old children out of the house to run around, burn energy, and get exercise.
Must they play in the street?

RE: We are being asked to report violators. - chrisk - 03-22-2020

(03-22-2020, 06:31 PM)M T Wrote:
(03-22-2020, 10:53 AM)chrisk Wrote: The playgrounds are cordoned off.

My daughter is having trouble finding anywhere that she can take her 2 & 4 year-old children out of the house to run around, burn energy, and get exercise.
Must they play in the street?

Most local parks are open but the actual playgrounds are closed.

RE: We are being asked to report violators. - 2006alum - 04-20-2020

Incidentally, I was in Golden Gate Park yesterday and it was the most crowded I have EVER seen it apart from large events like Outside Lands. Although the roads were closed off to car travel for most of it, it was nonetheless very difficult to navigate by bike and stay more than 6 feet away from other people, both bikers and pedestrians. I'd say roughly 50% of people had masks and 70% were doing a decent job of keeping distant from those outside their immediate party, but it definitely didn't give me confidence that our "shelter in place" will be completely eliminating non-necessary, non-household transmissions...

RE: We are being asked to report violators. - Genuine Realist - 04-20-2020

(04-20-2020, 10:30 AM)2006alum Wrote: Incidentally, I was in Golden Gate Park yesterday and it was the most crowded I have EVER seen it apart from large events like Outside Lands. Although the roads were closed off to car travel for most of it, it was nonetheless very difficult to navigate by bike and stay more than 6 feet away from other people, both bikers and pedestrians. I'd say roughly 50% of people had masks and 70% were doing a decent job of keeping distant from those outside their immediate party, but it definitely didn't give me confidence that our "shelter in place" will be completely eliminating non-necessary, non-household transmissions...

I'm a retired DA, and a fairly vocal debunker of various myths about police practice. I'm all for the lockdown myself and abide by it.

But it'll be a cold day in hell before I inform on any of my neighbors or even passers-by. Enough. You start to do damage to the culture. Don't tread on me.

RE: We are being asked to report violators. - BostonCard - 04-20-2020

Agree. I would also stay away from the Nextdoor ap, which has become a cesspool of people complaining about how kids playing in the park were not 6 feet apart. I will advocate for social distancing broadly, but I don't think naming and shaming, let alone reporting to the police, is going to engender the kind of social trust we need to make it through this together.

BC

RE: We are being asked to report violators. - teejers1 - 04-20-2020

(04-20-2020, 11:09 AM)BostonCard Wrote: Agree. I would also stay away from the Nextdoor ap, which has become a cesspool of people complaining about how kids playing in the park were not 6 feet apart. I will advocate for social distancing broadly, but I don't think naming and shaming, let alone reporting to the police, is going to engender the kind of social trust we need to make it through this together.

BC

Apocalypse for sure . . .

Every day I do a walk to my old HS; do very minor cardio work there; and walk home. On return route, I walk right by tennis courts at nearby park. For first weeks of SiP, the gates were not locked. In all the times I walked by . . . maybe saw 1 twosome on a court of 7 courts; one day there were 2 twosomes playing. No one waiting or milling about. About a week later, the gates were locked (and the fences are high on 4 of the courts). No one played on those courts again. But the "back 3" courts have 3 high fences and one low one. So, a couple times I saw a twosome playing on one of the back 3 courts (presumably they hopped the low fence).

Then this week, I see that the City (presumably) has cranked down all the nets on all the courts. Honestly, I thought to myself: that's complete chicken$hit. Those players were distanced and engaging in zero-risk activities (as much as that is possible). And then I thought to myself: how would the City even know/care about these isolated incidents? And it dawned on me that other passersby probably saw it and "reported" it to the City. If that assumption is true, then those "reporters" are complete tools/POSs and need to get a life.

It's as if they have embraced the Dean Wormer view of the world: "No more fun of any kind!!"

A rave with 200 people in a packed warehouse with bumping and grinding to the beat is one thing; but playing tennis in the open air where no one else is around, not even close?

WTH is wrong with people?

This is prime example of why decision-makers need to constantly re-evaluate activities that are okay. And it's perfectly fine for the ratchet to go the other way. It's okay to declare: "we've thought about it more, and tennis at the local park is okay, provided there are no gatherings of 10+ folks. Similarly, golf courses can be-reopened, provided certain safety measures are in place."

Really, it shouldn't be THAT difficult. . .

RE: We are being asked to report violators. - oregontim - 04-20-2020

(04-20-2020, 10:54 AM)Genuine Realist Wrote: But I'll be damned if I'm going to inform on any of my neighbors or even passers-by. Enough. You start to do damage to the culture. Don't tread on me.

(04-20-2020, 11:09 AM)BostonCard Wrote: Agree. I would also stay away from the Nextdoor ap, which has become a cesspool of people complaining about how kids playing in the park were not 6 feet apart. I will advocate for social distancing broadly, but I don't think naming and shaming, let alone reporting to the police, is going to engender the kind of social trust we need to make it through this together.

BC

Agree. With both of these. Neighbor reporting neighbor to authorities is creepy. Not here in the USA, please. Or, at the very least, not except in extreme cases (I was going to write only if life threatening, but ... yeah)

RE: We are being asked to report violators. - burger - 04-20-2020

The comparisons with Nazi Germany are beyond stupid. No one is going to the gas chambers. Idiotic Nazi analogies just make the board stupider. Can we drop that already?

And if my neighbors throw a big party (highly unlikely given my area's demographics), I'm sure as hell calling the cops so they can break it up. Stopping community spread of the virus will save lives, period. There have been numerous demonstrated examples of super-spreading events at large get togethers, ranging from parties to church services to conventions.

Don't give me bs about "damaging the culture" when people are dying.

RE: We are being asked to report violators. - fullmetal - 04-20-2020

So there's a growing body of anecdotal evidence that six feet of separation isn't *really* quite enough to prevent transmission -- every little bit helps, but it will all depend on how much virus is being breathed out, the movement of the air, and how much air is being inspired/expired by people nearby as well as the distance between people. But six feet is the published number because larger separation distances would really make essential life functions untenable as it is.

During the Blitz, UK citizens were asked to douse all lights at night and maintain a strict blackout so as to not give German bombers target guidance. I see parallels in the potential for individual actions to create collective harm. I think it's hard for people to understand the harm they might be encouraging -- first, asymptomatic transmission happens without the carrier knowing it ("I didn't know, it's not my fault!"), and so infectious carriers has no moral qualms about causing harm of which they are unaware. Second, it may take up to a week for any symptoms to manifest in the carrier, which is when things get real and if -- if! -- the carrier has serious/critical symptoms, you'll probably see an about face in attitude as the virus suddenly morphs from abstract news item to existential threat. By then, it's too late to prevent the harm the carrier has potentially inflicted on those around them.

I don't like the idea of neighbors ratting out neighbors, but I am also severely disappointed in the response to the sheltering orders that seem to flout the idea that any measures need to be taken at the individual level to help flatten the curve. Someone mentioned online that we are being given one grade for this big group project, and a few foolish actions are going to sink us.

In a world where healthcare workers are short on PPE and the federal government is running interdiction operations against hospitals procuring PPE, our ability to quickly flatten the curve most certainly saves the lives of healthcare workers who have no opportunity to distance from virus carriers.

RE: We are being asked to report violators. - OutsiderFan - 04-20-2020

This is to the board in general: If you knew 100% that we could only save humanity if 100% of the people put their own agendas aside to take one for the team, would you be so concerned about telling others what to do to save it? It may not be that extreme now, but every bit of separation from the virus is going to make it containable faster.

I saw my first person walking without a mask after our state order today. Unfortunately, I was walking two 85 pound dogs who love to jump on people at the time, rather than the usual one. He said hello and I replied back, "Hello. Face coverings are now mandatory," as I walked past.

Would have stopped and said more with only one dog with me. Not anything bossy. Friendly and engaging, without using the word "you" which makes people defensive when directed at an individual.

RE: We are being asked to report violators. - teejers1 - 04-20-2020

(04-20-2020, 01:51 PM)burger Wrote: The comparisons with Nazi Germany are beyond stupid. No one is going to the gas chambers. Idiotic Nazi analogies just make the board stupider. Can we drop that already?

And if my neighbors throw a big party (highly unlikely given my area's demographics), I'm sure as hell calling the cops so they can break it up. Stopping community spread of the virus will save lives, period. There have been numerous demonstrated examples of super-spreading events at large get togethers, ranging from parties to church services to conventions.

Don't give me bs about "damaging the culture" when people are dying.

People die every day.

"Damaging the culture" is an interesting question; and again, unless you equate "even one Corona virus death" with a damaged culture, the issue of what tactics damage "the culture" more is very much open to debate.

P.S. I agree that references to Nazi Germany are over the top - but just as OF would have us believe that 'every little bit' helps on the containment front, it's equally true that 'every little bit' of freedom deprivation causes its own damage . . . and in the neighbor-turning-in-neighbor front, that damage goes directly to "the culture."

P.P.S. No one is talking about mass conventions or church gatherings, btw. You're the one raising that red herring.

RE: We are being asked to report violators. - stupac2 - 04-20-2020

(04-20-2020, 02:58 PM)teejers1 Wrote: People die every day.

Do you still somehow not understand that the people who get infected by doing things that violate these orders don't just hurt themselves? The entire point of doing this is that one infection can lead to thousands down the road if you don't break the links. By violating the orders people aren't only exposing themselves to danger, but people many, many links away, who they probably don't even know.

As has been pointed out ad nauseam, the goal isn't to prevent the 20-year-old from getting sick. It's to prevent him from getting sick and giving it to his girlfriend, who gives it to her mother, who takes it to her mother's nursing home, and kills 40 people, or whatever the exact situation may be (this is only an example, you can insert whatever you want there, from infecting a cashier at the grocery store who then inadvertently infects dozens of random shoppers, etc etc).

RE: We are being asked to report violators. - M T - 04-20-2020

I hope you'll report it if you see a drunk driver. But there probably are fewer than 73 drunken-driving related deaths in Santa Clara County in a two-month period.

RE: We are being asked to report violators. - BostonCard - 04-20-2020

(04-20-2020, 04:05 PM)M T Wrote: I hope you'll report it if you see a drunk driver. But there probably are fewer than 73 drunken-driving related deaths in Santa Clara County in a two-month period.

Yes, I would report if I saw a drunk driver. I wouldn't report someone for speeding or a rolling stop. Likewise, I would report a cheek to jowel house party, but I wouldn't report two folks who broke into a tennis court to hit some balls around.

BC

RE: We are being asked to report violators. - Genuine Realist - 04-20-2020

(04-20-2020, 04:34 PM)BostonCard Wrote:
(04-20-2020, 04:05 PM)M T Wrote: I hope you'll report it if you see a drunk driver. But there probably are fewer than 73 drunken-driving related deaths in Santa Clara County in a two-month period.

Yes, I would report if I saw a drunk driver. I wouldn't report someone for speeding or a rolling stop. Likewise, I would report a cheek to jowel house party, but I wouldn't report two folks who broke into a tennis court to hit some balls around.

BC

If there is a mandatory mask order for open air pedestrians, 75% of the people i pass on my daily 5 miles are violating it. As am I.

RE: We are being asked to report violators. - teejers1 - 04-20-2020

(04-20-2020, 04:00 PM)stupac2 Wrote:
(04-20-2020, 02:58 PM)teejers1 Wrote: People die every day.

Do you still somehow not understand that the people who get infected by doing things that violate these orders don't just hurt themselves? The entire point of doing this is that one infection can lead to thousands down the road if you don't break the links. By violating the orders people aren't only exposing themselves to danger, but people many, many links away, who they probably don't even know.

As has been pointed out ad nauseam, the goal isn't to prevent the 20-year-old from getting sick. It's to prevent him from getting sick and giving it to his girlfriend, who gives it to her mother, who takes it to her mother's nursing home, and kills 40 people, or whatever the exact situation may be (this is only an example, you can insert whatever you want there, from infecting a cashier at the grocery store who then inadvertently infects dozens of random shoppers, etc etc).

Yes, I get it Stup. Everyone does.

Do you get that everything we do - even "the essential" runs to stores (where masks are not required, btw, at least in our area) risk goes up for the scenario you unfold? It's all about risk management, and pardon me for not getting worked up about two people playing tennis . . . outside . . . with no one around and/or waiting for them. And pardon me for not stopping and verbally chastising someone I see walking in the park without a mask just because you think everyone should wear one. Good grief.

And btw, until there is a vaccine, grandma at the assisted living facility - and more particularly, the good folks running the place and working there - better take extra, extra, precautions (as is happening where my mom is living right now).

Last point: I'm adhering to all the guidelines and rules. I even carry a mask when visiting any establishment and will wear it - even though not required - if things feel a little close-quartered. Case-in-point, the CVS store where I just picked up some greeting cards. In contrast, the Costco - which was surprisingly low-attended on my last visit - nope. If the county issues a mando mask order, then I'll comply. But until then, I'll exercise my reasoned judgment.