Pence disobeys Mayo's instructions to wear mask

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Pence disobeys Mayo's instructions to wear mask - chrisk - 04-28-2020

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/04/28/coronavirus-mike-pence-tours-mayo-clinic-without-mask.html

RE: Pence disobeys Mayo's instructions to wear mask - dabigv13 - 04-28-2020

We are truly being ruled by morons.

RE: Pence disobeys Mayo's instructions to wear mask - pefloresjr - 04-28-2020

This is insanity. I feel like a kid when I first read the story The Emperor's New Clothes. It seems likely that Pence won't wear a mask because that would make President Trump the only one who refuses to wear one. If he refuses, the Vice President better do the same regardless of the harm it does in sending the message that these recommendations don't need to be taken seriously. Not to mention the potential harm to him and others by not wearing a mask in a health facility. Pence having tested negative completely ignores the science that he could have become infected and contagious before it shows up in a test. I wish it were possible to ignore these things but there are a lot of Americans dying and a great many suffering. I am just stunned by this kind of behavior at the highest levels of our government. I need to go watch more replays of moments of Stanford sports glory so I don't have to finish my bottle of Maker's.

Cheers,
Pete F.

RE: Pence disobeys Mayo's instructions to wear mask - OutsiderFan - 04-29-2020

The Mayo Clinic never should have allowed Pence in its building without a mask. Both parties look pathetic.

RE: Pence disobeys Mayo's instructions to wear mask - Farm93 - 04-29-2020

(04-29-2020, 04:00 AM)OutsiderFan Wrote: The Mayo Clinic never should have allowed Pence in its building without a mask. Both parties look pathetic.

Disagree on the both parties part. Mayo clinic does get a lot of money from the federal government, they were stuck since treating the VP poorly could have impacted their funding and government support in future research.

Imagine a different country. If Shinzo Abe visited Sendai City Hospital, it would be a rather big honor for Sendai City Hospital. It would be rather bad form to then embarrass the guest, and might cost the hospital politically and financially for years. The guest he is visiting has already recovered from the disease in question, so best to just get it over with.

VP Pence, understanding that tension for the hospital, should have complied with the hospital policies if at all possible. And since he is the head of the task force on the COVID19 pandemic he should have known why masks are important and why the image of him in a mask could save thousands of American lives.

As VP he knows his primary objective is to appeal to an audience of one. VP Pence misjudged the best way to appeal to that audience of one.

RE: Pence disobeys Mayo's instructions to wear mask - OutsiderFan - 04-29-2020

(04-29-2020, 05:32 AM)Farm93 Wrote:
(04-29-2020, 04:00 AM)OutsiderFan Wrote: The Mayo Clinic never should have allowed Pence in its building without a mask. Both parties look pathetic.

Disagree on the both parties part. Mayo clinic does get a lot of money from the federal government, they were stuck since treating the VP poorly could have impacted their funding and government support in future research.

Imagine a different country. If Shinzo Abe visited Sendai City Hospital, it would be a rather big honor for Sendai City Hospital. It would be rather bad form to then embarrass the guest, and might cost the hospital politically and financially for years. The guest he is visiting has already recovered from the disease in question, so best to just get it over with.

VP Pence, understanding that tension for the hospital, should have complied with the hospital policies if at all possible. And since he is the head of the task force on the COVID19 pandemic he should have known why masks are important and why the image of him in a mask could save thousands of American lives.

As VP he knows his primary objective is to appeal to an audience of one. VP Pence misjudged the best way to appeal to that audience of one.

The entire problem we have as a global society can be summed up by the ease with which too many people compromise values, principles, and disrespect others for monetary consideration. Mayo Clinic compromised right along and made things worse for the world in doing so.

RE: Pence disobeys Mayo's instructions to wear mask - baymeadows3408 - 04-29-2020

(04-28-2020, 09:40 PM)chrisk Wrote: https://www.cnbc.com/2020/04/28/coronavirus-mike-pence-tours-mayo-clinic-without-mask.html

How did that wanton disregard for safety precautions thing work out for Boris Johnson?

RE: Pence disobeys Mayo's instructions to wear mask - burger - 04-29-2020

In this excellent New Yorker article, a former CDC director talked about the importance of officials' modelling good behavior. That is exactly the opposite of what Trump and Pence are doing (Trump also said he's choosing not to wear masks).

Quote:“To maintain trust, you have to be as honest as possible, and make damn sure that everyone walks the walk,” Besser told me. “If we order people to wear masks, then every C.D.C. official must wear a mask in public. If we order hand washing, then we let the cameras see us washing our hands. We’re trying to do something nearly impossible, which is get people to take an outbreak seriously when, for most Americans, they don’t know anyone who’s sick and, if the plan works, they’ll never meet anyone who’s sick.”

RE: Pence disobeys Mayo's instructions to wear mask - Mick - 04-29-2020

(04-29-2020, 10:17 AM)baymeadows3408 Wrote:
(04-28-2020, 09:40 PM)chrisk Wrote: https://www.cnbc.com/2020/04/28/coronavirus-mike-pence-tours-mayo-clinic-without-mask.html

How did that wanton disregard for safety precautions thing work out for Boris Johnson?

He recovered. Like most people do.

RE: Pence disobeys Mayo's instructions to wear mask - teejers1 - 04-29-2020

(04-29-2020, 12:44 PM)Mick Wrote:
(04-29-2020, 10:17 AM)baymeadows3408 Wrote:
(04-28-2020, 09:40 PM)chrisk Wrote: https://www.cnbc.com/2020/04/28/coronavirus-mike-pence-tours-mayo-clinic-without-mask.html

How did that wanton disregard for safety precautions thing work out for Boris Johnson?

He recovered. Like most people do.

Hey Mick, either get in line with the GroupThink in these parts or get out. This kind of talk is unacceptable.

RE: Pence disobeys Mayo's instructions to wear mask - dabigv13 - 04-29-2020

We get it. You two DGAF. You can go golfing now, brighten up.

RE: Pence disobeys Mayo's instructions to wear mask - BostonCard - 04-29-2020

Most unrestrained passengers involved in motor vehicle collisions survive too. So no need to wear a seatbelt?

BC

RE: Pence disobeys Mayo's instructions to wear mask - 2006alum - 04-29-2020

(04-29-2020, 07:17 PM)teejers1 Wrote: Hey Mick, either get in line with the GroupThink in these parts or get out. This kind of talk is unacceptable.

Is the difference between our "GroupThink" and yours simply that our group is more numerous? I struggle to otherwise see a distinction. But run with the persecution complex if it suits you.

BTW: here's why the group thinks that survival alone is a poor metric for outcomes:

[tweet]https://twitter.com/AlanBleiweiss/status/1253084914515243008?s=20[/tweet]

Quote:Some COVID-19 survivors had a 20-30% drop in lung function after recovery and “gasp if they walk a bit more quickly,” doctors in Hong Kong told the South China Morning Post last month.

In such cases, cardiopulmonary rehab may help in rebuilding strength and capacity, though a person may not return completely all the way back to baseline, Adalja said.

Quote:The longer patients have to remain in the ICU, the more likely they are to suffer long-term cognitive and emotional effects of being sedated. Doctors call it "post-intensive care syndrome" or post-ICU delirium, and describe it as a type of post-traumatic stress.
"Often when patients come out of the ICU, they really struggle to think as clearly as they did before," Dr. Amy Bellinghausen, a pulmonary, critical care and sleep medicine fellow at the University of California, San Diego, told NBC News.
She estimated up to two-thirds of ventilated patients may be affected. Possible causes include not getting enough oxygen or blood to the brain, or the medications used to sedate a patient.

RE: Pence disobeys Mayo's instructions to wear mask - Mick - 04-29-2020

(04-29-2020, 07:49 PM)BostonCard Wrote: Most unrestrained passengers involved in motor vehicle collisions survive too. So no need to wear a seatbelt?
BC

Interesting. You're equating wearing seatbelts with throwing 30 million people out of work and stopping the American economy in its tracks. Okay...

BTW, your comment is not strictly true. Nearly 20,000 people wearing seatbelts died in car crashes last year, according to the National Highway Transportation Safety Administration. Perhaps you could alter your retort to say "Most pedestrians weren't killed in car crashes" but that wouldn't be right either as 5,977 pedestrians died in car crashes. So I suppose the real point is if you want to get anywhere, you still face risks, unless you Shelter in Place. Which is cool as long as you don't need paychecks, money, food or rent.

(04-29-2020, 07:39 PM)dabigv13 Wrote: We get it. You two DGAF. You can go golfing now, brighten up.

As M T once said to me, please don't put words in our mouths. Neither of us said or implied we DGAF. It's the choice between two miserable options. I side with the one that doesn't ruin the economy because, as you say, IGAF about the 30 million out of work and the 60 million who depend on them for their livelihood in one way or another.

BTW, next week I need to furlough five more of my team members bring the headcount cuts to 23% of my team. I also had to cut another 30% out of my budget, now 70% below the meager amount that they provided me with in the first place.

And incidentally...I wouldn't say you DGAF, because I'm not an asshole. And I haven't played golf in decades.

RE: Pence disobeys Mayo's instructions to wear mask - teejers1 - 04-29-2020

(04-29-2020, 07:39 PM)dabigv13 Wrote: We get it. You two DGAF. You can go golfing now, brighten up.

Yeah, that's it, Dabig . . . I don't give a *****.
Never mind that people might say the same thing about you and your cohorts re: all those out of jobs, those with mental health issues whose situations are being exacerbated by lockdown, etc.

But you keep painting your little moral high ground picture in your mind, if it makes you feel better.
For me, I'll try harder to see "the light" being shone in these parts.

P.S. Not much of a golfer - maybe 2x/year. But if I were, then I would definitely try to get out there. I'm looking for reasons to get out and about; unlike The Enlightened in these parts, who are looking for reasons to stay inside. And btw, on that front, no one is forcing you to go outside - and that will be true today, tomorrow, and well . . . forever (even after the SiP restrictions are lifted). So no worries for you guys - you can hunker down and bunker in all the way till Kingdom Come.  Woo hoo!!

RE: Pence disobeys Mayo's instructions to wear mask - Goose - 04-29-2020

I have to admit that ad ad hominem makes me wonder about what all of us are doing here. I find a lot of what I hear on the board to be depressing, not because I disagree with it all, or because it talks about difficult choices but rather because it is poorly argued. In particular, while I think Trump is in fact a narcissistic idiot, I haven't yet seen people realize that the problems we have in both our State and Federal heath emergency response system (and in fact our whole system of governance) are IMHO much deeper than that. In fact, pretty much all of Western Civilization has demonstrated major issues in this epidemic response. There are a lot of smart people here. We should be better than this IMHO.

RE: Pence disobeys Mayo's instructions to wear mask - dabigv13 - 04-29-2020

Some folks have to endanger themselves and their families daily in the face of this virus. You two obviously don't. I could really care less about your opinions about this pandemic, even though you make them clear in most every thread. Moral high ground, hilarious. It sucks you have to fire some people, I have to put on a spacesuit and put breathing tubes in covid patients airways and hope that I did every step right so as not to expose myself or my family to a disease that I hear killing people on a regular basis (code blue in the ICU means one thing these days).

RE: Pence disobeys Mayo's instructions to wear mask - 76lsjumb - 04-29-2020

(04-28-2020, 10:48 PM)pefloresjr Wrote: Pence having tested negative completely ignores the science that he could have become infected and contagious before it shows up in a test.

Cheers,
Pete F.

Thank you, thank you, thank you for so clearly making the case for why this monomaniacal focus on testing, testing, testing is so ridiculous. It will never be possible to test everyone literally at the same time, nor to get all test results back instantaneously [and at the same time], nor to enforce a mandatory fourteen day quarantine of everyone so that the negative testers have no possible way of coming in contact with the positive testers. Accordingly, insisting on testing as the solution [and using it as the rationale for continuing to impose a drastic lockdown] "completely ignores the science that [someone who has tested negative] could have become infected and contagious before it shows up in a test."

I have yet to see anyone explain why someone without symptoms would benefit in any manner -- or, apparently, be permitted to change his/her behavior in any manner even in the event of a negative test -- from taking a test. According to scientists, this may even be true with respect to antibody tests, since it hasn't been shown yet that the existence of antibodies is also evidence of immunity from reinfection.

I'm not against testing. It provides data, and more data is always better than less. In fact, I certainly hope some group of scientists is doing whatever they can to get tests of all the folks on the beaches in Southern California or at those demonstrations, or at that Hassidic funeral in New York City -- all of those places where, presumably, massive hot spots are about to break out as a result of the highly criticized behavior ove rthe past few days. If [hopefully] that doesn't happen, that would be very helpful to know. As things stand right now, based on what the "scientists" say, we should expect to see a spike.

In fact, everyone who came in contact with VP Pence at the Mayo Clinic should be watched and, if no one develops COVID that can be traced to him, then will you be willing to admit he put no one in danger?

RE: Pence disobeys Mayo's instructions to wear mask - BostonCard - 04-29-2020

I’m not sure how Pence wearing a mask while visiting Mayo would have caused 30 million to be unemployed.

I’m probably more on your side about believing that opening up the economy can be done and will not necessarily result in a spike in cases than some of the other people on this board, but you’re not helping your case if you eschew taking reasonable precautions to decrease transmission, even for a disease where 99+% of infected patients recover.

BC

RE: Pence disobeys Mayo's instructions to wear mask - dabigv13 - 04-29-2020

Yeah, but if Pence did test positive, his behavior certainly would have changed.

I agree asymptomatic patients without high risk for exposure have no need to be tested. But if you have symptoms, any symptom, getting a test that comes back positive will change your behavior and likely reduce the number of people you go on to further expose particularly if your symptoms are mild. The more tests we run, the more cases we can prevent.