Personal Request for COVID-19 referral

Personal Request for COVID-19 referral - Printable Version

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Personal Request for COVID-19 referral - Mick - 05-12-2020

My Philadelphia-based firm is preparing a return-to-office plan for 1,000 people to return to work in four large offices (NYC, Philadelphia, Houston, WashDC), three mid-sized offices (Pittsburgh, LA, Chicago) and smaller offices in FL, OH, DE, NJ.

I'd like to have an appropriate medical expert review our draft plan. Please PM me if you are aware of such an expert who might have the availability and inclination to review such a plan.

Thanks in advance.

RE: Personal Request for COVID-19 referral - Mick - 05-14-2020

Apologies, apparently my mailbox was full and I was unable to receive new mail. If you reached out to me with a recommendation for a medical expert who can review our return to work plan, I would appreciate it very much.

Mick

RE: Personal Request for COVID-19 referral - OutsiderFan - 05-14-2020

Shouldn't the CDC be providing this information?

On another note, why the hell make people go to the office? Makes zero sense. I suggest following Twitter's lead. Allow anyone to work from home who wants to stay home. Then, reduce your lease obligations by giving up office space as they expire, and use that as leverage to re-negotiate your leases.

It's now dead simple to connect with others by video meetings. There is no need to make accommodations for people to be in an office setting if they are at home. What can only be done at an office? There are probably some businesses types that have a greater need to meet in person than others, but I have a real hard time seeing legal practices as one of them.

RE: Personal Request for COVID-19 referral - BostonCard - 05-14-2020

OSHA has prepared a handy guidance document (really, they are just echoing the CDC). It looks like your firm may be in the lower exposure risk category, unless you have frequent client meetings in the office, which I suspect will be another casualty of the COVID era. It sounds like OSHA recommends that firms in the low exposure risk category do... nothing special.

https://www.osha.gov/Publications/OSHA3990.pdf

That's not exactly right, as there is a fairly long section on steps all employers can take.

BC

RE: Personal Request for COVID-19 referral - burger - 05-14-2020

(05-14-2020, 08:23 AM)BostonCard Wrote: OSHA has prepared a handy guidance document (really, they are just echoing the CDC). It looks like your firm may be in the lower exposure risk category, unless you have frequent client meetings in the office, which I suspect will be another casualty of the COVID era. It sounds like OSHA recommends that firms in the low exposure risk category do... nothing special.

https://www.osha.gov/Publications/OSHA3990.pdf

That's not exactly right, as there is a fairly long section on steps all employers can take.

BC

My wife works for an organization that is thinking of re-opening to the public soon, and she's been looking for some sort of official guidance, too. This OSHA document is weak tea. Everything is suggested, and the document doesn't seem to even consider asymptomatic transmission. E.g., for medium risk jobs, they say, "consider offering masks to ill employees and customers" [emphasis mine]. So only sick people get masks, and even then it's at the whim of the employer? They even talk about international travelers as being a high-risk group. Was this written in February? It's not helpful. Employers will use this sort of thing to justify doing the bare minimum or nothing.

Feels like this was written to appeal to the lowest common denominator of people concerned about the virus.

RE: Personal Request for COVID-19 referral - 82 Card - 05-14-2020

(05-14-2020, 10:21 AM)burger Wrote:
(05-14-2020, 08:23 AM)BostonCard Wrote: OSHA has prepared a handy guidance document (really, they are just echoing the CDC). It looks like your firm may be in the lower exposure risk category, unless you have frequent client meetings in the office, which I suspect will be another casualty of the COVID era. It sounds like OSHA recommends that firms in the low exposure risk category do... nothing special.

https://www.osha.gov/Publications/OSHA3990.pdf

That's not exactly right, as there is a fairly long section on steps all employers can take.

BC

My wife works for an organization that is thinking of re-opening to the public soon, and she's been looking for some sort of official guidance, too. This OSHA document is weak tea. Everything is suggested, and the document doesn't seem to even consider asymptomatic transmission. E.g., for medium risk jobs, they say, "consider offering masks to ill employees and customers" [emphasis mine]. So only sick people get masks, and even then it's at the whim of the employer? They even talk about international travelers as being a high-risk group. Was this written in February? It's not helpful. Employers will use this sort of thing to justify doing the bare minimum or nothing.

Feels like this was written to appeal to the lowest common denominator of people concerned about the virus.

Based on news reports, it is my understanding that CDC all of a sudden watered down it's advice some time in February. Things that were requirements became suggestions to consider. If the intent is to act in good faith and protect the people in the firm, you need to consider CDC suggestions as at least strong recommendations or requirements. That's how they would have been written two months ago.

RE: Personal Request for COVID-19 referral - chrisk - 05-14-2020

(05-14-2020, 12:32 PM)82 Card Wrote:
(05-14-2020, 10:21 AM)burger Wrote:
(05-14-2020, 08:23 AM)BostonCard Wrote: OSHA has prepared a handy guidance document (really, they are just echoing the CDC). It looks like your firm may be in the lower exposure risk category, unless you have frequent client meetings in the office, which I suspect will be another casualty of the COVID era. It sounds like OSHA recommends that firms in the low exposure risk category do... nothing special.

https://www.osha.gov/Publications/OSHA3990.pdf

That's not exactly right, as there is a fairly long section on steps all employers can take.

BC

My wife works for an organization that is thinking of re-opening to the public soon, and she's been looking for some sort of official guidance, too. This OSHA document is weak tea. Everything is suggested, and the document doesn't seem to even consider asymptomatic transmission. E.g., for medium risk jobs, they say, "consider offering masks to ill employees and customers" [emphasis mine]. So only sick people get masks, and even then it's at the whim of the employer? They even talk about international travelers as being a high-risk group. Was this written in February? It's not helpful. Employers will use this sort of thing to justify doing the bare minimum or nothing.

Feels like this was written to appeal to the lowest common denominator of people concerned about the virus.

Based on news reports, it is my understanding that CDC all of a sudden watered down it's advice some time in February. Things that were requirements became suggestions to consider. If the intent is to act in good faith and protect the people in the firm, you need to consider CDC suggestions as at least strong recommendations or requirements. That's how they would have been written two months ago.

Why would the CDC water down its advice in February? Trump was denying there was a problem then.

RE: Personal Request for COVID-19 referral - magnus - 05-14-2020

(05-14-2020, 01:46 PM)chrisk Wrote: Why would the CDC water down its advice in February? Trump was denying there was a problem then.

I feel like the CDC guidelines in February weren't evolved yet. They were still treating the virus as low risk, so I don't think there was even any advice for how to handle it.

By mid March, they started with probably standard PPE requirements...only to realize they had not enough (I'm guessing)...and rather than overprotect our healthcare workers, they relaxed requirements to include an option to use bandanas and scarves if PPE was not available.

RE: Personal Request for COVID-19 referral - 82 Card - 05-14-2020

I may have been a month off. Working from memory. This was when the meet packing plants first started making the news. The news reports had to do with investigation reports, not general guidance. Previously, they would write up inspections reports with clear directives. Then all of a sudden they switched to things to consider type language, nothing mandatory. The public guidance has been mealy mouthed for longer.

As to why they changed, that remains to be proven. Most likely, someone didn't like clear direction any more than they liked the CDC holding it's own briefings.

RE: Personal Request for COVID-19 referral - Mick - 05-14-2020

(05-14-2020, 08:23 AM)BostonCard Wrote: OSHA has prepared a handy guidance document (really, they are just echoing the CDC). It looks like your firm may be in the lower exposure risk category, unless you have frequent client meetings in the office, which I suspect will be another casualty of the COVID era. It sounds like OSHA recommends that firms in the low exposure risk category do... nothing special.

https://www.osha.gov/Publications/OSHA3990.pdf

That's not exactly right, as there is a fairly long section on steps all employers can take.

BC

Thanks, BC, appreciate it. We're pretty low risk, and most of us will operate from home for a very long time.

RE: Personal Request for COVID-19 referral - akiddoc - 05-15-2020

(05-14-2020, 08:04 PM)Mick Wrote:
(05-14-2020, 08:23 AM)BostonCard Wrote: OSHA has prepared a handy guidance document (really, they are just echoing the CDC). It looks like your firm may be in the lower exposure risk category, unless you have frequent client meetings in the office, which I suspect will be another casualty of the COVID era. It sounds like OSHA recommends that firms in the low exposure risk category do... nothing special.

https://www.osha.gov/Publications/OSHA3990.pdf

That's not exactly right, as there is a fairly long section on steps all employers can take.

BC

Thanks, BC, appreciate it. We're pretty low risk, and most of us will operate from home for a very long time.

There are such consultants. Unfortunately for private industry, they are mainly engaged with medical facilities right now. If I was the one looking, I would contact Dr Yvonne Maldonado at Stanford. Of course she might not answer your call. If you could get her on the phone she might recommend a consultant. https://www.stanfordchildrens.org/en/doctor/yvonne-a-maldonado

RE: Personal Request for COVID-19 referral - Mick - 05-15-2020

(05-15-2020, 01:04 AM)akiddoc Wrote:
(05-14-2020, 08:04 PM)Mick Wrote:
(05-14-2020, 08:23 AM)BostonCard Wrote: OSHA has prepared a handy guidance document (really, they are just echoing the CDC). It looks like your firm may be in the lower exposure risk category, unless you have frequent client meetings in the office, which I suspect will be another casualty of the COVID era. It sounds like OSHA recommends that firms in the low exposure risk category do... nothing special.

https://www.osha.gov/Publications/OSHA3990.pdf

That's not exactly right, as there is a fairly long section on steps all employers can take.

BC

Thanks, BC, appreciate it. We're pretty low risk, and most of us will operate from home for a very long time.

There are such consultants. Unfortunately for private industry, they are mainly engaged with medical facilities right now. If I was the one looking, I would contact Dr Yvonne Maldonado at Stanford. Of course she might not answer your call. If you could get her on the phone she might recommend a consultant. https://www.stanfordchildrens.org/en/doctor/yvonne-a-maldonado

Thanks much.

RE: Personal Request for COVID-19 referral - BostonCard - 05-15-2020

Newly published CDC guidelines:

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/community/organizations/businesses-employers.html

There's a nice flowchart to guide whether you should re-open:

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/downloads/community/workplace-decision-tree.pdf

There's a series of guides for cleaning and disinfecting:

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/community/clean-disinfect/index.html

There's a business FAQ:

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/community/general-business-faq.html

There's a list of top 10 tips to protect employee health:

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/community/guidance-small-business.html

Etc.

BC

RE: Personal Request for COVID-19 referral - burger - 05-15-2020

(05-15-2020, 09:08 AM)BostonCard Wrote: Newly published CDC guidelines:

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/community/organizations/businesses-employers.html

There's a nice flowchart to guide whether you should re-open:

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/downloads/community/workplace-decision-tree.pdf

There's a series of guides for cleaning and disinfecting:

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/community/clean-disinfect/index.html

There's a business FAQ:

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/community/general-business-faq.html

There's a list of top 10 tips to protect employee health:

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/community/guidance-small-business.html

Etc.

BC

More useless weak tea. Essentially no requirements. Everything is "suggested." Bosses can do whatever they want, pretty much, and justify it under this language.

My wife's job involves seeing people in small offices (where 6' of separation is impossible) for up to 90 minutes. A close reading of these documents would suggest that--maybe--she should have a cloth mask. But it wouldn't be required.

RE: Personal Request for COVID-19 referral - BostonCard - 05-15-2020

Atul Gawande uses his hospital system's (Mass General Brigham) experience as a guide for reopening other workplaces.

https://www.newyorker.com/science/medical-dispatch/amid-the-coronavirus-crisis-a-regimen-for-reentry?campaign_id=9&emc=edit_nn_20200515&instance_id=18502&nl=the-morning&regi_id=112348342&segment_id=27919&te=1&user_id=ceb8dc75e6018f57e5d7fc74f24220a2

Quote:The four pillars of our strategy—hygiene, distancing, screening, and masks—will not return us to normal life, but, when signs indicate that the virus is under control, they could get people out of their homes and moving again.

I will note (because I've been reserved about it) that Gawande is unabashedly positive about masks.

Quote:Evidence of the benefits of mandatory masks is now overwhelming. Our hospital system would not be able to stop viral spread without them. But will supplies keep up? Factories are increasing production of both surgical masks and N95s as rapidly as possible, but they don’t come close to meeting health-care workers’ needs, let alone supplying the general public, and they won’t for months to come. It should therefore be no surprise that foreign factories have prioritized meeting their own countries’ needs, often under government edict, and the world is fighting over what’s left.

RE: Personal Request for COVID-19 referral - Snorlax94 - 05-15-2020

Thanks for sharing these resources, BC! A fee thoughts:
1) I did find some useful implementation details from the CDC site. For example, I forgot you should wash high-touch surfaces first with soap and water, then use a bleach cleaner, then to leave the bleach cleaner on for at least a minute. Good tips for if/when we take any trips to beach hotels this summer.

2) The fact that a very informed, thoughtful, proactive boss like Mick found this information by having to solicit help on the Cardboard just shows the massive chasm between the medical experts with knowledge of best practices and businesses. So much more needs to be done to inform the typical business, to help them implement (and then enforce rules), and there are not enough medical consultants for everyone. I’d like to see states and counties do more to bridge this gap.

3) the best practices from the Mass hospitals was great, but one limitation is that hospitals are kind of fixed buildings, so it didn’t go as much into ventilation and shifting activities outside. You can’t do surgery on a sidewalk, but you can put dining tables, product displays and cash registers there.

RE: Personal Request for COVID-19 referral - BostonCard - 05-15-2020

(05-15-2020, 05:25 PM)Snorlax94 Wrote: 3) the best practices from the Mass hospitals was great, but one limitation is that hospitals are kind of fixed buildings, so it didn’t go as much into ventilation and shifting activities outside. You can’t do surgery on a sidewalk, but you can put dining tables, product displays and cash registers there.

More importantly, hospitals are designed from the ground up for infection control... though the Boston hospitals in which Atul works were designed eons ago. MGH, especially, is a frankenmonster of different architectures, where you can take an elevator from one building to another one that was built on top of the first. Still, hospitals have thought a lot about things like ventilation. Long before COVID-19 came along, hospitals had negative pressure rooms to isolate patients with TB. Contact precautions have been around a long time. And PPE, while in short supply, is built for hospitals. Regular workplaces, on the other hand, have been built for energy efficiency, rather than minimizing infection, so you see a lot of recirculated air, for example.

BC

RE: Personal Request for COVID-19 referral - BostonCard - 05-18-2020

Microsoft now has an app for that.

https://www.fiercebiotech.com/medtech/microsoft-unitedhealth-launch-covid-19-screening-app-for-workplace

Basically, the app is a chatbot that will screen employees via symptoms.

BC

RE: Personal Request for COVID-19 referral - BostonCard - 05-22-2020

Kaiser Permanente has also released a playbook for return to work:

https://business.kaiserpermanente.org/thrive/resource-center/covid-19-return-to-work-playbook

BC

RE: Personal Request for COVID-19 referral - Hurlburt88 - 05-23-2020

THank you! my company is currently re-opening, and I am personally fighting a battle over masks being mandatory versus voluntary. This helps me.