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Could we face economic sanctions? - Printable Version

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Could we face economic sanctions? - OutsiderFan - 06-24-2020

The NYT reported yesterday that European Union countries are considering a ban on travel from the United States. I'd say this is as humiliating as it gets for us as a country, but unfortunately, there is further humiliation ahead.

When the POTUS is the only person in the world having large indoor gatherings during a global pandemic and doing his part to add gasoline to a fire the rest of the world is serious about containing, I can't imagine there won't be more fallout. Could those countries seeing reckless U.S. management of Covid-19 pandemic slap sanctions on the U.S. as a way to incentivize more responsible behavior? 

We have the worst outbreak in terms of numbers, and we are starting to once again see an explosion of infections. We could set our highest single day reported new infection numbers today. How can the world be OK doing its part to contain the virus, while the world's largest economy is the largest breeding ground for it?  Not to put too fine a point on it, but if the U.S. sneezes, everyone else is gong to get sick, and I'm imaging the rest of the world is going to want to do something about it.

RE: Could we face economic sanctions? - M T - 06-24-2020

I wouldn't call such a ban "economic sanctions".  Perhaps "health sanctions".    As I understood what you said, such a travel ban (and,  potentially, product ban) would be intended to protect their health, not something to sanction the US economically.   Yes, it would impact our economy, but that isn't the purpose.   The US's earlier ban on travel from Europe & other places wasn't an economic sanction.

I did see that China is banning meat products from a particular packing plant that has a high rate of COVID-19 infections.  That seems reasonable to me.    I choose to make sure all the frozen meat we eat is thoroughly cooked at our house.

RE: Could we face economic sanctions? - OutsiderFan - 06-24-2020

I realize a travel ban isn't an economic sanction.  That's why I posed the question about economic sanctions.

If the world wants a country to do something or not do something, one of the tools is economic sanctions. China could say they aren't sending textiles to the U.S. until proper steps are taken to mitigate pandemic in U.S. If say, Pakistan is the only country willing to allow textile imports to the U.S., the prices for clothing in the U.S. would skyrocket. That ostensibly makes the public put pressure on the government to take serious action on virus mitigation.

Again, if I'm a country like Germany who knocked this thing down, how am I OK with supporting the U.S. economically, when it continues to put me at risk by not managing the pandemic in any serious way?  Think more people would be clamoring for mandatory mask wearing and prohibiting indoor gatherings of more than 100 people, if without it, clothing prices go up 200%, for example? This is what I would be organizing if I was Germany, France, Spain, China, and many others.

The United States, Brazil, and Russia, all deserve to be economically punished beyond free market based downturns as a result of pandemic, IMO. We simply must learn there is a severe price to pay for rejecting science and being selfish, so we stop acting like such fools.

RE: Could we face economic sanctions? - Farm93 - 06-24-2020

(06-24-2020, 04:36 AM)OutsiderFan Wrote:  The NYT reported yesterday that European Union countries are considering a ban on travel from the United States. I'd say this is as humiliating as it gets for us as a country, but unfortunately, there is further humiliation ahead.

When the POTUS is the only person in the world having large indoor gatherings during a global pandemic and doing his part to add gasoline to a fire the rest of the world is serious about containing, I can't imagine there won't be more fallout. Could those countries seeing reckless U.S. management of Covid-19 pandemic slap sanctions on the U.S. as a way to incentivize more responsible behavior? 

We have the worst outbreak in terms of numbers, and we are starting to once again see an explosion of infections. We could set our highest single day reported new infection numbers today. How can the world be OK doing its part to contain the virus, while the world's largest economy is the largest breeding ground for it?  Not to put too fine a point on it, but if the U.S. sneezes, everyone else is gong to get sick, and I'm imaging the rest of the world is going to want to do something about it.
For the EU these types of travel restrictions will be very hard to accomplish.   They would not do it unless they were genuinely concerned about health and economic consequences of USA travelers adding to the second wave in the EU.

I fully expect the EU will not be alone.   Japan, South Korea and many other countries outside of the EU will likely place or maintain bans or quarantine requirements on USA travelers too.

RE: Could we face economic sanctions? - chrisk - 06-24-2020

Since China restricts Americans from visiting China, it is hard to see them damaging their economy further by restricting exports to the US.

Americans are already barred from Europe. It is a material of whether they are part of the July 1 relaxation. The EU controls are guidelines; each country makes the final decision.

RE: Could we face economic sanctions? - Farm93 - 06-24-2020

(06-24-2020, 06:55 AM)chrisk Wrote:  The EU controls are guidelines; each country makes the final decision.

But once you are in the EU it is super easy to move between countries.   So look for there to be massive pressure for all EU countries to have a uniform set of guidelines.   I would imagine that to force a unified approach the member countries might demand that any country allowing USA travelers would then have severe restrictions on any travel by anyone departing that country to the rest of the EU.

The EU is a collection of different countries, but I expect they will be more united and consistent on COVID travel and policies than our 50 states have been to date.

RE: Could we face economic sanctions? - BostonCard - 06-24-2020

No, we are not going to face economic sanctions (as broadly understood) for our poor pandemic response, unless we provoke them (say, by sanctioning other countries in an effort to deflect blame).

BC

RE: Could we face economic sanctions? - OutsiderFan - 06-24-2020

BC, why do you see sanctions as so unlikely?

I just saw a report today that the White House is cutting federal funding for testing at the end of July.  It's part of the brain-dead "if you test less there will be fewer cases" nonsense.  The reality is if we test less there will be MORE people infected, exactly what other countries don't want to see happening.  What can they do to protect themselves without sanctions, when the POTUS is effectively trying to get as many people infected as possible?
Sorry, I was wrong, Federal funding for Coronavirus testing is being cut in a week:

[tweet]https://twitter.com/CNBCnow/status/1275823820448976897[/tweet]

RE: Could we face economic sanctions? - Mick - 06-24-2020

(06-24-2020, 10:36 AM)BostonCard Wrote:  No, we are not going to face economic sanctions (as broadly understood) for our poor pandemic response, unless we provoke them (say, by sanctioning other countries in an effort to deflect blame).

BC

Day's still young...

RE: Could we face economic sanctions? - BostonCard - 06-24-2020

(06-24-2020, 12:10 PM)OutsiderFan Wrote:  BC, why do you see sanctions as so unlikely?



I just saw a report today that the White House is cutting federal funding for testing at the end of July.  It's part of the brain-dead "if you test less there will be fewer cases" nonsense.  The reality is if we test less there will be MORE people infected, exactly what other countries don't want to see happening.  What can they do to protect themselves without sanctions, when the POTUS is effectively trying to get as many people infected as possible?

How are sanctions going to protect them?

BC

RE: Could we face economic sanctions? - Farm93 - 06-24-2020

(06-24-2020, 02:31 PM)BostonCard Wrote:  
(06-24-2020, 12:10 PM)OutsiderFan Wrote:  BC, why do you see sanctions as so unlikely?



I just saw a report today that the White House is cutting federal funding for testing at the end of July.  It's part of the brain-dead "if you test less there will be fewer cases" nonsense.  The reality is if we test less there will be MORE people infected, exactly what other countries don't want to see happening.  What can they do to protect themselves without sanctions, when the POTUS is effectively trying to get as many people infected as possible?

How are sanctions going to protect them?

BC
By forcing those in the GOP not named Trump to step up and help get the USA serious about properly fighting a global pandemic.  
Sanctions are a very blunt instrument, but it is one Trump understands.  

Sanctions won't really happen because that's a dangerous game to play IMHO.

I can imagine more severe travel restrictions including potentially forcing Americans to stay in specific locations until they test negative for COVID for a number of days.

RE: Could we face economic sanctions? - lex24 - 06-24-2020

I bet the  funding will continue.

RE: Could we face economic sanctions? - akiddoc - 06-24-2020

Apparently most of those federal dollars are going to Texas. Texas has no state income taxes, so the rest of us have to pay for their program.

RE: Could we face economic sanctions? - fullmetal - 06-24-2020

If the funding is withdrawn, Texas will lose a lot of their covid testing capability right as the growth curve is skyrocketing.  Not a pleasant thought.