Advice for People Who Have Difficulty Using Masks - Printable Version

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Advice for People Who Have Difficulty Using Masks - Snorlax94 - 07-10-2020

I was talking to my hairdresser yesterday, and she said she's always had difficulty with masks. She says she buys $400 of groceries at Costco per trip to minimize the number of trips because she finds breathing in them so difficult.

My advice to her, based on my anecdotal experiences, were:

1) Use a fresh mask. I have found that when I reuse disposable surgical masks, it becomes harder to breathe in over time.

2) In lower-risk situations, consider wearing a mask loosely. 

So this may be controversial. I have a variety of masks -- some that fit tightly and make it harder to breathe, and some that fit loosely. If I am meeting another household 10 feet away in my backyard to socialize while wearing masks, I might use my lower-quality mask that is easier to breathe in. If I am going to exercise outdoors, far from people, I might wear a loose fitting mask and not even mold it tightly around my nose, making it easier for me to breathe.

And this is really my question for the group -- what do people think of intentionally not molding a mask tightly around a face when it's otherwise difficult for people. The mask will do a lot less to protect the wearer, and it will do less in terms of source control and protecting others, but on the balance, I would argue it's a reasonable Plan B that should be offered for people who have difficulty wearing masks.

I also raise this for discussion because I have seen the Santa Clara County Board of Education recommendations for re-opening schools in about a month, and they suggest that masks should be recommended, but not required. They outline how important it is not to separate or stigmatize  children who have difficulty wearing masks, so there should be no mask requirement and no insistence for masks. As a parent, I find this unacceptable, and if my district doesn't require masks, and if there are kids in my kids' classrooms not wearing masks, I may have to unenroll and homeschool.

I have not seen anyone giving advice for what to do if you have difficulty wearing masks, so what do people think of the above advice for people having difficulty wearing masks indoors:
1) Wear a fresh mask,
2) Try a looser mask or (if necessary) don't mold it as tightly around the nose
3) As a final backup, in some circumstances, like at school with young children, permit face shields as the absolute minimum

The danger is that *everyone* will stop wearing masks tightly, but I'd be willing to permit the above accommodations at primary schools. Feedback?

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RE: Advice for People Who Have Difficulty Using Masks - M T - 07-10-2020

I recently discussed a study where when they introduced a 1% gap in a N95 mask and a surgical mask, the effectiveness at filtering aerosol particles plummeted (for N95, down to 59%, and for surgical down to 10-15%, IIRC).

Gaps are bad.  Your exhalation will go out the gap.  Inhalation may be a little better than that, but depends on how big the gap is.

But, most masks I see in use have gaps. (Bandanas probably are no better than face shields.)  They probably help for LARGE droplets (2x hair diameter) that don't aerosolize.  But everything 100 micron or smaller evaporates & aerosolizes before it falls to the ground (ok, 100micron only aerosolizes at <50% RH).

But, I sympathize with the issue.  A facemask could have fabric attached to it to go around the head and then drape down to the torso.  That has lots of surface area, so the air draw wouldn't be hard.  But it would tend to be hot and stuffy. 

Add a filter to that with a fan drawing through that filter.

You might look like Buck Rogers....

There are also full face masks that were intended for snorkeling. There are designs for adding filters (N95, etc.), but these masks will be very hard to acquire.

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RE: Advice for People Who Have Difficulty Using Masks - 76lsjumb - 07-10-2020

Or, you could wear it like Nancy Pelosi -- always perfectly color coordinated to her outfit and always perfectly folded... and wrapped around her neck under her chin, but never over her nose and/or mouth.  

I hope she's getting tested [and testing negatively] on a daily basis, like [as I understand] a certain POTUS, because, for all practical purposes, she seems to be wearing a mask in her public appearances at pretty much the same rate as that certain POTUS.

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RE: Advice for People Who Have Difficulty Using Masks - BostonCard - 07-10-2020

A quick google image search finds plenty of pictures of Pelosi with a mask on (and some without a mask)



Agree that they are always color-coordinated with her outfit.

BC

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RE: Advice for People Who Have Difficulty Using Masks - fullmetal - 07-10-2020

Even if the mask isn't super tight, the mask will also slow down the exit velocity of exhalations, and that helps prevent exhalations from staying airborne longer or spreading further.  It's basically a baffle, and that's still a valuable effect.

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RE: Advice for People Who Have Difficulty Using Masks - BostonCard - 07-10-2020

Also, the extent to which aerosols contribute to COVID-19 transmission is a subject of debate.

https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2020/07/09/889526937/who-report-aerosols-not-likely-to-be-significant-source-of-covid-19-transmission

I think it is clear that COVID-19 can be transmitted via aerosols; the question is how substantial is that form of transmission.  If it is a substantial contributor, then masks (other than N95) won't make a brobdingnagian difference; if it is only transmitted via aerosols under certain circumstances, then it's ok if the mask isn't perfectly fit.

BC

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RE: Advice for People Who Have Difficulty Using Masks - 76lsjumb - 07-10-2020

(07-10-2020, 05:08 PM)BostonCard Wrote:  A quick google image search finds plenty of pictures of Pelosi with a mask on (and some without a mask)



Agree that they are always color-coordinated with her outfit.

BC

You are correct... but I was referring to seeing her on television -- which is, I think, more common than doing Google search images of her [something I don't think I have ever done in my life until 30 seconds ago, when, among other images, I ran across this link:

https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/20/politics/nancy-pelosi-mask-fashion-coronavirus/index.html

The story [in addition to providing another example of her using a mask as an accessory, not a health safety device], provides a clue as to why I believe many find her rather ... off-putting.  Not that she seems to mind, of course, in her designer mask purchased from a boutique clothing store.  That probably goes over very well in, say, Iowa...

By the way, from other posts, it would seem to me that most, if not all, of the masks she is wearing in these photos, are likely to be of only marginal value from a safety perspective.

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RE: Advice for People Who Have Difficulty Using Masks - Snorlax94 - 07-10-2020

(07-10-2020, 05:26 PM)76lsjumb Wrote:  

(07-10-2020, 05:08 PM)BostonCard Wrote:  A quick google image search finds plenty of pictures of Pelosi with a mask on (and some without a mask)



Agree that they are always color-coordinated with her outfit.

BC

You are correct... but I was referring to seeing her on television -- which is, I think, more common than doing Google search images of her [something I don't think I have ever done in my life until 30 seconds ago, when, among other images, I ran across this link:

https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/20/politics/nancy-pelosi-mask-fashion-coronavirus/index.html

The story [in addition to providing another example of her using a mask as an accessory, not a health safety device], provides a clue as to why I believe many find her rather ... off-putting.  Not that she seems to mind, of course, in her designer mask purchased from a boutique clothing store.  That probably goes over very well in, say, Iowa...

By the way, from other posts, it would seem to me that most, if not all, of the masks she is wearing in these photos, are likely to be of only marginal value from a safety perspective.

I get that people get off-topic here, but the topic was pretty specific: what can be done in circumstances like primary schools where children may have difficulty wearing a mask. Are loose-fitting masks OK? Are face shields adequate? How effective are the alternatives? What do people think of opening classrooms where students are only encouraged to wear masks? What should be done?

Thank you to MT and fullmetal for their responses.

It was a pretty specific topic, it's a non-partisan one, and is has large implications for the US as a whole as it attempts to re-open schools in just a month. And it's frustrating to see it so quickly become a debate about Nancy Pelosi, how completely she wears masks on particular occasions, and her sartorial choices.

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RE: Advice for People Who Have Difficulty Using Masks - dabigv13 - 07-10-2020

Faceshields alone are pointless. The main benefit of masks is preventing spread from someone who may be infected, and secondarily protecting the user. A faceshield is a an adjunctive minor protector to the user, but no benefit to everyone else.

I think a loose fitting bandana type setup, in a well ventilated space with 6 feet distancing is safe. Whether that is an achievable thing for most schools is another matter.

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RE: Advice for People Who Have Difficulty Using Masks - 76lsjumb - 07-10-2020

(07-10-2020, 06:15 PM)Snorlax94 Wrote:  I get that people get off-topic here, but the topic was pretty specific: what can be done in circumstances like primary schools where children may have difficulty wearing a mask. Are loose-fitting masks OK? Are face shields adequate? How effective are the alternatives? What do people think of opening classrooms where students are only encouraged to wear masks? What should be done?

Thank you to MT and fullmetal for their responses.

It was a pretty specific topic, it's a non-partisan one, and is has large implications for the US as a whole as it attempts to re-open schools in just a month. And it's frustrating to see it so quickly become a debate about Nancy Pelosi, how completely she wears masks on particular occasions, and her sartorial choices.

Sorry. My bad.  I forgot that taking a shot at Trump is, by definition, never off-topic, but mentioning anyone else is always grounds for a quick slap-down [if not invocation of the Terry Rule].

Won't happen again.

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RE: Advice for People Who Have Difficulty Using Masks - chrisk - 07-10-2020

I’m not sure why virtually all students can’t be required to wear a mask. I haven’t heard of other counties giving widespread exceptions. The school authorities just need to make strict rules and stand firm. No mask, send them home.

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RE: Advice for People Who Have Difficulty Using Masks - akiddoc - 07-11-2020

(07-10-2020, 08:40 PM)chrisk Wrote:  I’m not sure why virtually all students can’t be required to wear a mask.  I haven’t heard of other counties giving widespread exceptions.  The school authorities just need to make strict rules and stand firm.  No mask, send them home.

Do you have children?

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RE: Advice for People Who Have Difficulty Using Masks - lex24 - 07-11-2020

(07-11-2020, 03:39 AM)akiddoc Wrote:  

(07-10-2020, 08:40 PM)chrisk Wrote:  I’m not sure why virtually all students can’t be required to wear a mask.  I haven’t heard of other counties giving widespread exceptions.  The school authorities just need to make strict rules and stand firm.  No mask, send them home.

Do you have children?

LOL.

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(07-10-2020, 05:26 PM)76lsjumb Wrote:  

(07-10-2020, 05:08 PM)BostonCard Wrote:  A quick google image search finds plenty of pictures of Pelosi with a mask on (and some without a mask)



Agree that they are always color-coordinated with her outfit.

BC

You are correct... but I was referring to seeing her on television -- which is, I think, more common than doing Google search images of her [something I don't think I have ever done in my life until 30 seconds ago, when, among other images, I ran across this link:

https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/20/politics/nancy-pelosi-mask-fashion-coronavirus/index.html

The story [in addition to providing another example of her using a mask as an accessory, not a health safety device], provides a clue as to why I believe many find her rather ... off-putting.  Not that she seems to mind, of course, in her designer mask purchased from a boutique clothing store.  That probably goes over very well in, say, Iowa...

By the way, from other posts, it would seem to me that most, if not all, of the masks she is wearing in these photos, are likely to be of only marginal value from a safety perspective.

What do you have against Iowa?  :)

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