College football isn't happening

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College football isn't happening - BostonCard - 07-14-2020

https://sports.yahoo.com/time-to-face-reality-no-one-is-playing-college-football-in-the-fall-170634809.html

Hard to really argue with this. I am reminded of the movie the Sixth Sense. "I see dead people... they don't know that they're dead."

BC

RE: College football isn't happening - JustAnotherFan - 07-14-2020

I've been telling people this for months. Lying to ourselves only makes it worse.

RE: College football isn't happening - JohnR34231 - 07-14-2020

(07-14-2020, 04:41 AM)JustAnotherFan Wrote: I've been telling people this for months. Lying to ourselves only makes it worse.

I think it is more a question of being hopeful in the matter than lying to ourselves.

RE: College football isn't happening - JustAnotherFan - 07-14-2020

(07-14-2020, 06:02 AM)JohnR34231 Wrote:
(07-14-2020, 04:41 AM)JustAnotherFan Wrote: I've been telling people this for months. Lying to ourselves only makes it worse.

I think it is more a question of being hopeful in the matter than lying to ourselves.

Sounds like a difference without a distinction. Being hopeful suggests that we are lying to ourselves about something that cannot happen.

RE: College football isn't happening - chrisk - 07-14-2020

When the SEC Commissioner goes this negative, the July 31 decisions seem preordained.

Those who dismissed spring football will probably start thinking it might be a realistic alternative when the fall proves impossible.

RE: College football isn't happening - winflop - 07-14-2020

It's wishful thinking/heads in sand because the alternative without football $$ is going to decimate college athletics across the board. Not all Universities will step up and bridge the gap in their athletic departments when it runs up to around $100M

RE: College football isn't happening - OutsiderFan - 07-14-2020

Reading between the lines of Sankey's words, he's pretty upset about the government response to the pandemic, and not because too much was done.

RE: College football isn't happening - fullmetal - 07-17-2020

(07-14-2020, 08:20 AM)winflop Wrote: It's wishful thinking/heads in sand because the alternative without football $$ is going to decimate college athletics across the board. Not all Universities will step up and bridge the gap in their athletic departments when it runs up to around $100M

We still might be able to schedule a spring season...if we survive the winter wave...if we survive the election...if we survive this second wave. For the sake of athletic dept budgets, I would like to see a CFB season, no matter when. For the sake of human lives, I don't think it should happen. But a lot of more important events are going to take place between now and a potential spring season.

RE: College football isn't happening - CowboyIndian - 07-17-2020

Spring? How do you have spring football and then have another season in what? 3-4 months? Seems absurd and unlikely.

RE: College football isn't happening - teejers1 - 07-17-2020

(07-17-2020, 10:14 PM)CowboyIndian Wrote: Spring? How do you have spring football and then have another season in what? 3-4 months? Seems absurd and unlikely.

Agreed. It's fall or bust, and "bust" likely means a lot more than just "college football 2020.." A lot is at stake here for athletic departments (and indeed, universities as a whole) if Covid means no games and no students on campuses.

Soccer is doing quite well, by all appearances, and that sport has way more transmission risk than does baseball, which really has no excuse to be so late to the competitive party. As for Buster, hey, he's free to make his own decisions, and thus whatever he decides is "the right" decision (for him). From a safety standpoint, I'm just not buying the incremental risk argument. The risk of getting the virus by playing baseball is really, really low - especially if they move substitute players into the stands (and not in dugouts), as they do in soccer. Fortunately Buster has made a ton of $$ and has the financial freedom to do whatever he wants. As a Giants fan, not sure losing Buster is much of a negative impact - he has never been the same following the home plate collision.

Football is in between baseball and soccer, in terms of risk from the activity itself.

BTW, you're starting to see some sites allowing limited fans in stands. Again, I think that's very doable from a safety management standpoint. The problems won't be inside the stadium . . . but outside (tailgates, plus the logistics of ingress and egress).

RE: College football isn't happening - BostonCard - 07-18-2020

Yeah, it’s probably safe enough in an outdoor stadium with adequate spacing and no yelling, but if you are a fan, what’s the point in going to a stadium at half or quarter capacity that is quiet because no one is allowed to yell, for which there is limited, if any concessions, and where you have to have a socially distant tailgate. At that you are probably better off watching on TV.

BC

RE: College football isn't happening - OutsiderFan - 07-18-2020

The issues around football are not so much about playing the game per se (although that obviously presents risk), but just the congregate nature of football. In most states, gatherings of 100+ people are not safe.

I suppose you could conceivably make concerted efforts to stagger when guys can and can't be in locker rooms and workout facilities, and can do some coaching sessions on Zoom or Skype or Google or what have you. College football wouldn't have the traditional whole team runs out of tunnel at same time thing going on. It would be more like the pre-game practices, where various position groups come out separately.

IOW, there are ways to create distancing measures that if followed, might actually allow football to be operated. But the measures needed to reduce risk enough to materially reduce virus spread among team, would be substantial. One positive thing I see is that having paid attention to all the various NPIs available, and how the virus seems to spread, it doesn't take the CDC issuing guidelines to figure out what steps should be taken.

We know there are some basics:

- Masks to reduce virus particles in air and initial load
- Minimize number of bodies that spend time together
- Limit indoor time with others
- Distance between bodies
- Clean surfaces and hands

All these can be adopted into various protocols by anyone, including football teams. If they are too onerous or costly to implement, then I get calling things off, but it would be nice to see someone try to see what they can do to pull it off. The fact so many of the G5 conferences are throwing the towel in on any Fall sports is telling. The cost/benefit for playing sports just isn't there for them, so why take the risk? Will be interesting to see what the P5 concludes, because the expense level to implement the adequate protocols seems fixed, no matter the level of sport. P5 schools could invest resources in effort to play and generate revenue to help defray costs, then not be able to play. Then they'd be in even worse shape. Tough choices for sure.

RE: College football isn't happening - Farm93 - 07-18-2020

College Football will next happen in Fall 2021 - Best Case

It is not the games, really. A touch of helmet creativity could help a lot.
The problem is everything else.
How to practice various essential skills daily.
How to keep players away from each other.
How to avoid others on campus that may be asymptomatic carriers and still be an on-campus student
How to avoid others while travelling
How to justify games if the other undergrads are on-line only
And this is not about how to do this in July it is how to do that in October and November when the cases in the USA will be MUCH higher than today.

The idea of a winter/spring football season is crazy given what happened in March & April 2020.
Schools that have not planned their budgets for a year without football revenue should get to work on scenario planning ASAP.

I just hope Stanford's recently announced cut in sports reflected that scenario because if not there may be more cuts to announce in a few months.

RE: College football isn't happening - Mick - 07-18-2020

(07-17-2020, 11:36 PM)teejers1 Wrote: As for Buster, hey, he's free to make his own decisions, and thus whatever he decides is "the right" decision (for him). From a safety standpoint, I'm just not buying the incremental risk argument. The risk of getting the virus by playing baseball is really, really low - especially if they move substitute players into the stands (and not in dugouts), as they do in soccer. Fortunately Buster has made a ton of $$ and has the financial freedom to do whatever he wants. As a Giants fan, not sure losing Buster is much of a negative impact - he has never been the same following the home plate collision.

Good post, Teejers. I fully support Buster's decision to take the year off, and frankly, I hope he takes two years (the rest of his burdensome contract) off. Club has an option for 2022, but I don't see them exercising it. If Buster takes two years off, the club saves $44+ million. He was crushing it this spring, OPS of 1.206.

Speaking of the spring, as a team, the Giants had the 5th highest OPS, third highest batting average...but the 10th most runs scored. Probably because they had the 28th most walks. Giants have bad batting eyes, apparently. Giants also had the 27th-best ERA at 5.80, 23rd best WHIP. Spring record was 9-9 when they stopped. Won't expect big things this season.

RE: College football isn't happening - teejers1 - 07-18-2020

(07-18-2020, 06:02 AM)Farm93 Wrote: College Football will next happen in Fall 2021 - Best Case

It is not the games, really. A touch of helmet creativity could help a lot.
The problem is everything else.
How to practice various essential skills daily.
How to keep players away from each other.
How to avoid others on campus that may be asymptomatic carriers and still be an on-campus student
How to avoid others while travelling
How to justify games if the other undergrads are on-line only
And this is not about how to do this in July it is how to do that in October and November when the cases in the USA will be MUCH higher than today.

The idea of a winter/spring football season is crazy given what happened in March & April 2020.
Schools that have not planned their budgets for a year without football revenue should get to work on scenario planning ASAP.

I just hope Stanford's recently announced cut in sports reflected that scenario because if not there may be more cuts to announce in a few months.

1. There is a way (on safety front) to justify playing football (and other sports) if "regular students" aren't on campus - indeed, in this "safety trumps all" environment, you should be advocating for that. Of course, we know it's an optics thing, not a safety thing.

2. I dispute the notion that one infection ==> team shutdown. When kids get sick, they sit out. This obviously is more dramatic than other illnesses (though not for the college competitors); still, it's possible to have a kid or two of 5 isolate and sit out the requisite period before rejoining the team. Isn't that going on right now in the sports that are competing?

3. Does anyone know the fallout, if any, from TBT. That was a men's five on five basketball tourney where the winner took all of the $1M prize. I know they brought in extra teams at the outset to ensure sufficient entrants, but I didn't hear of any forfeits due to Covid - or of an outbreak amongst the competitors during the tourney (of course, I didn't really pay much attention to that whole thing, so maybe there were problems once the competition began).

RE: College football isn't happening - cctop - 07-18-2020

(07-18-2020, 12:24 AM)BostonCard Wrote: if you are a fan, what’s the point in going to a stadium at half or quarter capacity that is quiet

So...you're saying a regular Stanford game?

RE: College football isn't happening - OutsiderFan - 07-18-2020

(07-18-2020, 09:57 AM)teejers1 Wrote: 3. Does anyone know the fallout, if any, from TBT. That was a men's five on five basketball tourney where the winner took all of the $1M prize. I know they brought in extra teams at the outset to ensure sufficient entrants, but I didn't hear of any forfeits due to Covid - or of an outbreak amongst the competitors during the tourney (of course, I didn't really pay much attention to that whole thing, so maybe there were problems once the competition began).

AFAIK, the TBT went off without a hitch and had zero Covid-19 positive tests. I don't know how many tests they did or how long it took to get results, but based on my understanding, they achieved perfection.

RE: College football isn't happening - Farm93 - 07-18-2020

(07-18-2020, 09:57 AM)teejers1 Wrote:
(07-18-2020, 06:02 AM)Farm93 Wrote: College Football will next happen in Fall 2021 - Best Case

It is not the games, really. A touch of helmet creativity could help a lot.
The problem is everything else.
How to practice various essential skills daily.
How to keep players away from each other.
How to avoid others on campus that may be asymptomatic carriers and still be an on-campus student
How to avoid others while travelling
How to justify games if the other undergrads are on-line only
And this is not about how to do this in July it is how to do that in October and November when the cases in the USA will be MUCH higher than today.

The idea of a winter/spring football season is crazy given what happened in March & April 2020.
Schools that have not planned their budgets for a year without football revenue should get to work on scenario planning ASAP.

I just hope Stanford's recently announced cut in sports reflected that scenario because if not there may be more cuts to announce in a few months.

1. There is a way (on safety front) to justify playing football (and other sports) if "regular students" aren't on campus - indeed, in this "safety trumps all" environment, you should be advocating for that. Of course, we know it's an optics thing, not a safety thing.

2. I dispute the notion that one infection ==> team shutdown. When kids get sick, they sit out. This obviously is more dramatic than other illnesses (though not for the college competitors); still, it's possible to have a kid or two of 5 isolate and sit out the requisite period before rejoining the team. Isn't that going on right now in the sports that are competing?

3. Does anyone know the fallout, if any, from TBT. That was a men's five on five basketball tourney where the winner took all of the $1M prize. I know they brought in extra teams at the outset to ensure sufficient entrants, but I didn't hear of any forfeits due to Covid - or of an outbreak amongst the competitors during the tourney (of course, I didn't really pay much attention to that whole thing, so maybe there were problems once the competition began).

I don't think one infection would cause the team to shutdown. It would just cause the team to lose every game for a few weeks.

Why? As best I can tell the NCAA rules with pods and 14 day quarantine rules sounds very similar to the CIF rules. The CIF rules included the idea that players would practice in pods. If a player tested positive in a pod, then all of the players in that pod would need to quarantine for 14 days. The challenge would then be to form pods that prevent all players of a specific roster spot to be stuck in quarantine. However, a pod with different positions and levels on the depth chart would create a practice group quite different from pre-COVID practices.

The CIF rules looked impractical even before the July resurgence of COVID. So odds were good CIF would postpone all fall sports into a 10 week period between January-February and perhaps early March even before the largest school districts opted to go virtual and then Gov Newsom's virtual school declaration for most of the populated counties. Their next meeting in Monday July 20th. My children laugh at me when I tell them they should keep training just in case. Admittedly my appeals are not particularly credible.

I'd bet big money the Jan-Mar plan will get cancelled in December, but that's for a different time.

The NCAA seems to be on a similar track. Very tough pod and quarantine rules, a bunch of schools going on-line only, and athletic conferences embracing reality.

Pro sports are much easier because you can force the people into hotel bubbles and command them not to interact with people outside of the team. That is not possible for student-athletes for so many reasons.

Looks like most of the pro-sport bubbles in the USA with everyone in the same venue have gone OK. MLS had a few teams drop out. I am not convinced the USA sports that are trying to add in travel will have the same luck, but even that is easier than trying to move a group of college students to different venues.

And before thinking about the logistics of moving a football team around in charter flights with several trainers and coaches, think about trying to move a soccer team around the USA with a couple of coaches on commercial flights.

After imagining that soccer scenario you likely will realize what the NCAA will announce in a few more days.

RE: College football isn't happening - Phogge - 07-18-2020

If there is no college football be it Fall or Spring means widespread confusion for the NFL. Perhaps they will need tryout camp bubbles. Not good for kids who are hoping to matriculate and get drafted too.

RE: College football isn't happening - gailtate - 07-18-2020

So when do those refunds kick in?