The best Super Bowl QBs - Printable Version
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The best Super Bowl QBs - Mick - 07-26-2020
I was thinking about winning Super Bowl quarterbacks and how they played during the regular season of their Super Bowl winning years. Jimmy Garoppolo played and lost last season, and was rated 8th in the NFL with a 102.0 QB rating (as the NFL calculates it, not the ESPN QBR which is admittedly probably more accurate).
It's easy to come up with the list of best and worst NFL quarterbacks who have won Super Bowls by, say, career rating. Top three career rating QBs are Aaron Rodgers (102.4), Russell Wilson (101.2) and Drew Brees (98.4), all of whom have won Super Bowls. Worst by far was Namath with a career rating of (65.5), then Plunkett (67.5), then Doug Williams (69.4).
But what about their Super Bowl year? How did Super Bowl-winning quarterbacks compare to other quarterbacks that season? I'd always thought, for example, Terry Bradshaw was an average QB with a great team -- particularly a great defense -- around him. And he was 25th among NFL quarterbacks in his first Super Bowl season. But he was 5th, 2nd and 8th in passer rating his other Super Bowl seasons.
Based upon regular season NFL QB ratings (not the ESPN version), eight Super Bowl-winning quarterbacks were also the best quarterbacks during the regular season in their Super Bowl winning year by rating, including:
1966, Bart Starr (105)
1971, Roger Staubach (104.8)
1976, Ken Stabler (103.4)
1989, Joe Montana (112.4)
1994, Steve Young (112.8, highest regular season rating of any Super-Bowl-winning QB)
1999, Kurt Warner (109.2)
2006, Peyton Manning (101.0)
2009, Drew Brees (109.6)
And a fair number finished 2nd in the NFL in QB Rating during the regular season, including Staubach ('77), Bradshaw ('78), Montana ('84), Rypien ('91), Aikman ('93), Favre ('96), and Brady ('16).
And which Super Bowl-winning quarterbacks fared the worst compared with their peers? Which had an NFL passer rating that placed them 20th or worse in the NFL? The list includes:
1974 Bradshaw (55.2, 25th)
2000 Dilfer (76.6, 20th)
2008 Eli Manning (73.9, 25th)
2009 Ben Roethlisberger (80.1, 24th)
2015 Peyton Manning (67.9, 34th, by far the worst regular season showing of a Super Bowl winning quarterback)
I didn't include three Super Bowl-winning QBs who were part-timers during the regular season, but were forced to start during the Super Bowl:
1987 Doug Williams (94.0, 21st)
1990 Jeff Hostetler (89.0, 26th)
2017 Nick Foles (76.7, 26th)
Stanford quarterback stats of interest:
1970 Unitas (65.1, 17th) didn't have a great season. Brodie finished with a 93.8 rating, best in the NFL.
1980 Plunkett (72.9, 17th)
1983 Plunkett (82.7, 11th)
1997 Elway (87.5, 7th)
1998 Elway (93.0, 5th)
Statistics are attached.
RE: The best Super Bowl QBs - Giants - 07-26-2020
(07-26-2020, 02:47 PM)Mick Wrote: I was thinking about winning Super Bowl quarterbacks and how they played during the regular season of their Super Bowl winning years. Jimmy Garoppolo played and lost last season, and was rated 8th in the NFL with a 102.0 QB rating (as the NFL calculates it, not the ESPN QBR which is admittedly probably more accurate).
It's easy to come up with the list of best and worst NFL quarterbacks who have won Super Bowls by, say, career rating. Top three career rating QBs are Aaron Rodgers (102.4), Russell Wilson (101.2) and Drew Brees (98.4), all of whom have won Super Bowls. Worst by far was Namath with a career rating of (65.5), then Plunkett (67.5), then Doug Williams (69.4).
But what about their Super Bowl year? How did Super Bowl-winning quarterbacks compare to other quarterbacks that season? I'd always thought, for example, Terry Bradshaw was an average QB with a great team -- particularly a great defense -- around him. And he was 25th among NFL quarterbacks in his first Super Bowl season. But he was 5th, 2nd and 8th in passer rating his other Super Bowl seasons.
Based upon regular season NFL QB ratings (not the ESPN version), eight Super Bowl-winning quarterbacks were also the best quarterbacks during the regular season in their Super Bowl winning year by rating, including:
1966, Bart Starr (105)
1971, Roger Staubach (104.8)
1976, Ken Stabler (103.4)
1989, Joe Montana (112.4)
1994, Steve Young (112.8, highest regular season rating of any Super-Bowl-winning QB)
1999, Kurt Warner (109.2)
2006, Peyton Manning (101.0)
2009, Drew Brees (109.6)
And a fair number finished 2nd in the NFL in QB Rating during the regular season, including Staubach ('77), Bradshaw ('78), Montana ('84), Rypien ('91), Aikman ('93), Favre ('96), and Brady ('16).
And which Super Bowl-winning quarterbacks fared the worst compared with their peers? Which had an NFL passer rating that placed them 20th or worse in the NFL? The list includes:
1974 Bradshaw (55.2, 25th)
2000 Dilfer (76.6, 20th)
2008 Eli Manning (73.9, 25th)
2009 Ben Roethlisberger (80.1, 24th)
2015 Peyton Manning (67.9, 34th, by far the worst regular season showing of a Super Bowl winning quarterback)
I didn't include three Super Bowl-winning QBs who were part-timers during the regular season, but were forced to start during the Super Bowl:
1987 Doug Williams (94.0, 21st)
1990 Jeff Hostetler (89.0, 26th)
2017 Nick Foles (76.7, 26th)
Stanford quarterback stats of interest:
1970 Unitas (65.1, 17th) didn't have a great season. Brodie finished with a 93.8 rating, best in the NFL.
1980 Plunkett (72.9, 17th)
1983 Plunkett (82.7, 11th)
1997 Elway (87.5, 7th)
1998 Elway (93.0, 5th)
Statistics are attached.
Let me help you...
re: Super Bowl QB’s....
Joe Montana is the best ever.
I know it when I see it - Potter Stewart....
RE: The best Super Bowl QBs - Phogge - 07-26-2020
Montana and Brady. I'll take either one. Nobody else in the conversation.
If I had to win one game I would take Otto Graham.
RE: The best Super Bowl QBs - terry - 07-26-2020
Bart Starr --
Postseason W/L record - 9-1
Postseason winning pct. - .900 (best for anyone with more than 2 games)
Postseason QB rating - 104.8 (2nd best behind Mahomes)
NFL Championships - 5 (2nd best behind Brady)
lex24 - lex24 - 07-26-2020
(07-26-2020, 05:28 PM)Giants Wrote:(07-26-2020, 02:47 PM)Mick Wrote: I was thinking about winning Super Bowl quarterbacks and how they played during the regular season of their Super Bowl winning years. Jimmy Garoppolo played and lost last season, and was rated 8th in the NFL with a 102.0 QB rating (as the NFL calculates it, not the ESPN QBR which is admittedly probably more accurate).
It's easy to come up with the list of best and worst NFL quarterbacks who have won Super Bowls by, say, career rating. Top three career rating QBs are Aaron Rodgers (102.4), Russell Wilson (101.2) and Drew Brees (98.4), all of whom have won Super Bowls. Worst by far was Namath with a career rating of (65.5), then Plunkett (67.5), then Doug Williams (69.4).
But what about their Super Bowl year? How did Super Bowl-winning quarterbacks compare to other quarterbacks that season? I'd always thought, for example, Terry Bradshaw was an average QB with a great team -- particularly a great defense -- around him. And he was 25th among NFL quarterbacks in his first Super Bowl season. But he was 5th, 2nd and 8th in passer rating his other Super Bowl seasons.
Based upon regular season NFL QB ratings (not the ESPN version), eight Super Bowl-winning quarterbacks were also the best quarterbacks during the regular season in their Super Bowl winning year by rating, including:
1966, Bart Starr (105)
1971, Roger Staubach (104.8)
1976, Ken Stabler (103.4)
1989, Joe Montana (112.4)
1994, Steve Young (112.8, highest regular season rating of any Super-Bowl-winning QB)
1999, Kurt Warner (109.2)
2006, Peyton Manning (101.0)
2009, Drew Brees (109.6)
And a fair number finished 2nd in the NFL in QB Rating during the regular season, including Staubach ('77), Bradshaw ('78), Montana ('84), Rypien ('91), Aikman ('93), Favre ('96), and Brady ('16).
And which Super Bowl-winning quarterbacks fared the worst compared with their peers? Which had an NFL passer rating that placed them 20th or worse in the NFL? The list includes:
1974 Bradshaw (55.2, 25th)
2000 Dilfer (76.6, 20th)
2008 Eli Manning (73.9, 25th)
2009 Ben Roethlisberger (80.1, 24th)
2015 Peyton Manning (67.9, 34th, by far the worst regular season showing of a Super Bowl winning quarterback)
I didn't include three Super Bowl-winning QBs who were part-timers during the regular season, but were forced to start during the Super Bowl:
1987 Doug Williams (94.0, 21st)
1990 Jeff Hostetler (89.0, 26th)
2017 Nick Foles (76.7, 26th)
Stanford quarterback stats of interest:
1970 Unitas (65.1, 17th) didn't have a great season. Brodie finished with a 93.8 rating, best in the NFL.
1980 Plunkett (72.9, 17th)
1983 Plunkett (82.7, 11th)
1997 Elway (87.5, 7th)
1998 Elway (93.0, 5th)
Statistics are attached.
Let me help you...
re: Super Bowl QB’s....
Joe Montana is the best ever.
I know it when I see it - Potter Stewart....
Agree. In fact, if we’re talking SB performance I don’t think it’s even debatable.
RE: The best Super Bowl QBs - CowboyIndian - 07-26-2020
From Bleacher Report...Best Super Bowl QBs:
Jim Plunkett (1971-1986)
800 winning percentage is second only to Bart Starr for quarterbacks with at least 10 postseason starts. The MVP of Super Bowl XV, Plunkett is the only two-time Super Bowl champion not in the Hall of Fame—largely due to an unspectacular regular-season record.
To which I say, "F you Chuck Fairbanks!"
RE: The best Super Bowl QBs - teejers1 - 07-26-2020
(07-26-2020, 10:08 PM)CowboyIndian Wrote: From Bleacher Report...Best Super Bowl QBs:
Jim Plunkett (1971-1986)
800 winning percentage is second only to Bart Starr for quarterbacks with at least 10 postseason starts. The MVP of Super Bowl XV, Plunkett is the only two-time Super Bowl champion not in the Hall of Fame—largely due to an unspectacular regular-season record.
To which I say, "F you Chuck Fairbanks!"
Word!
New England management ruined Jim Plunkett's overall career; which was saved in Oakland (but after far too many hits/miles).
Similarly, Indy management ruined Andrew Luck's career.
Those effing piss me off!! Still!
lex24 - lex24 - 07-26-2020
(07-26-2020, 10:08 PM)CowboyIndian Wrote: From Bleacher Report...Best Super Bowl QBs:
Jim Plunkett (1971-1986)
800 winning percentage is second only to Bart Starr for quarterbacks with at least 10 postseason starts. The MVP of Super Bowl XV, Plunkett is the only two-time Super Bowl champion not in the Hall of Fame—largely due to an unspectacular regular-season record.
To which I say, "F you Chuck Fairbanks!"
I read once an NFL Exec after Plunkett NE run say he never saw any QB get beat up as bad as Plunkett. And f-ing Chuck Fairbanks had him running the option - with a bad shoulder. Leading to his separating it. Hiseman (purposefully misspelled),No 1 pick, ROY and SB MVP. Has anyone else done that?
When he won his SBs at Oakland he was like a pitcher that had lost his great fastball but was effective with mixing up pitches, guile etc. People forget, I think, what an incredible talent he was.
It is heartbreaking to read of the pain he now endures. Not only cause he was one of my childhood sports heroes. More importantly because the next guy that says a bad word about Jim Plunkett will be the first.
(07-26-2020, 11:29 PM)teejers1 Wrote:(07-26-2020, 10:08 PM)CowboyIndian Wrote: From Bleacher Report...Best Super Bowl QBs:
Jim Plunkett (1971-1986)
800 winning percentage is second only to Bart Starr for quarterbacks with at least 10 postseason starts. The MVP of Super Bowl XV, Plunkett is the only two-time Super Bowl champion not in the Hall of Fame—largely due to an unspectacular regular-season record.
To which I say, "F you Chuck Fairbanks!"
Word!
New England management ruined Jim Plunkett's overall career; which was saved in Oakland (but after far too many hits/miles).
Similarly, Indy management ruined Andrew Luck's career.
Those effing piss me off!! Still!
Me, also. Funny thing is, it almost happened to Elway. Every year I’d watch the NFL draft hoping Denver would actually pick some offensive skill position players in early rounds. They steadfastly refused to do it. The clincher was when Dan Reeves picked Tommy Maddox in the first round. He was thinking Elway was getting older wanted to have his replacement.(Elway played 7 more seasons. Maddox played two years at Denver. Started 4 games in 92 when Elwaybwas hurt. Lost all 4) There was a speedy wide receiver from Tennessee who people thought Denver would take. I can’t remember if it was Carl Pickens or AnthonybMilller (who ended up later with Den). Shanahan came and they put some talent around him. Otherwise a Elway would be rembered as the guy that couldn’t win the big one. Never mind that those three teams were, except for Elway were fairly meciocre. Or as John Madden said - the closest to a one man team he had seen.
Always wondered what Elway would have done with the Niners and Walsh.
RE: lex24 - BostonCard - 07-27-2020
(07-26-2020, 11:38 PM)lex24 Wrote: Me, also. Funny thing is, it almost happened to Elway. Every year I’d watch the NFL draft hoping Denver would actually pick some offensive skill position players in early rounds. They steadfastly refused to do it. The clincher was when Dan Reeves picked Tommy Maddox in the first round. He was thinking Elway was getting older wanted to have his replacement.(Elway played 7 more seasons. Maddox played two years at Denver. Started 4 games in 92 when Elwaybwas hurt. Lost all 4) There was a speedy wide receiver from Tennessee who people thought Denver would take. I can’t remember if it was Carl Pickens or AnthonybMilller (who ended up later with Den). Shanahan came and they put some talent around him. Otherwise a Elway would be rembered as the guy that couldn’t win the big one. Never mind that those three teams were, except for Elway were fairly meciocre. Or as John Madden said - the closest to a one man team he had seen.
Always wondered what Elway would have done with the Niners and Walsh.
Yes, he was very close to being Dan Marino.
BC
(07-26-2020, 07:08 PM)terry Wrote: Postseason QB rating - 104.8 (2nd best behind Mahomes)
When all is said and done, Mahomes may turn out to be the best ever.
BC
RE: The best Super Bowl QBs - Phogge - 07-27-2020
And how would Sammy Baugh or Sid Luckman have done with Walsh? Probably at least as well as Montana.
RE: The best Super Bowl QBs - Mick - 07-27-2020
(07-27-2020, 08:48 AM)Phogge Wrote: And how would Sammy Baugh or Sid Luckman have done with Walsh? Probably at least as well as Montana.
I have it in the back of my head that Walsh credited Luckman with a lot of his ideas...
RE: The best Super Bowl QBs - Giants - 07-27-2020
(07-27-2020, 08:56 AM)Mick Wrote:(07-27-2020, 08:48 AM)Phogge Wrote: And how would Sammy Baugh or Sid Luckman have done with Walsh? Probably at least as well as Montana.
I have it in the back of my head that Walsh credited Luckman with a lot of his ideas...
Actually, it was Paul Brown. Over the years, Walsh repeatedly cited Paul Brown’s influence on his approach to coaching. Recently, I watched a NFL Films show that focused on the championship game that featured “The Catch”. During the show, Walsh credited Paul Brown with creating the play that won the game. Walsh said he just tweaked it a bit.
RE: The best Super Bowl QBs - 82lsju - 07-27-2020
(07-27-2020, 11:32 AM)Giants Wrote: Actually, it was Paul Brown. Over the years, Walsh repeatedly cited Paul Brown’s influence on his approach to coaching. Recently, I watched a NFL Films show that focused on the championship game that featured “The Catch”. During the show, Walsh credited Paul Brown with creating the play that won the game. Walsh said he just tweaked it a bit.
and who knows what would have happened if Paul Brown had promoted Walsh to head coach when he retired as coach of the Bengals in 1975....
RE: The best Super Bowl QBs - terry - 07-27-2020
(07-27-2020, 12:38 PM)82lsju Wrote: and who knows what would have happened if Paul Brown had promoted Walsh to head coach when he retired as coach of the Bengals in 1975....
Yes. It has often been reported that Walsh, a Bengals assistant, wanted the head coach job when Paul Brown retired after the 1975 season. Brown passed over Walsh and picked Tiger Johnson. Bad move by Brown.
I can't remember whether I've mentioned what happened a year earlier, after the 1974 season. Dan Devine left Green Bay to go to Notre Dame. The immediate front-runner for head coach of the Packers was Bart Starr. My grandfather was on the Packers' executive committee. My grandfather and Walsh were slightly acquainted. They had a chance encounter in December, I believe in Hawaii. Walsh told my grandfather that if the Packers were not committed to hiring Starr, then Walsh would be interested in coaching the Packers. My grandfather thanked him for his interest, but by that time, hiring Starr was all but a done deal. Bad move by the Packers.
RE: The best Super Bowl QBs - oregontim - 07-27-2020
The whole post below (and thanks Mick, good one) makes me curious ... did the ratings systems change over time? Seems like a rough correlation with earlier QBs having lower ratings. Or is it maybe that the game changed, offenses changed, rules changed to protect QBs more? Were these things calculated the same in 1970 as in 2020?
(07-26-2020, 02:47 PM)Mick Wrote: I was thinking about winning Super Bowl quarterbacks and how they played during the regular season of their Super Bowl winning years. Jimmy Garoppolo played and lost last season, and was rated 8th in the NFL with a 102.0 QB rating (as the NFL calculates it, not the ESPN QBR which is admittedly probably more accurate).
It's easy to come up with the list of best and worst NFL quarterbacks who have won Super Bowls by, say, career rating. Top three career rating QBs are Aaron Rodgers (102.4), Russell Wilson (101.2) and Drew Brees (98.4), all of whom have won Super Bowls. Worst by far was Namath with a career rating of (65.5), then Plunkett (67.5), then Doug Williams (69.4).
But what about their Super Bowl year? How did Super Bowl-winning quarterbacks compare to other quarterbacks that season? I'd always thought, for example, Terry Bradshaw was an average QB with a great team -- particularly a great defense -- around him. And he was 25th among NFL quarterbacks in his first Super Bowl season. But he was 5th, 2nd and 8th in passer rating his other Super Bowl seasons.
Based upon regular season NFL QB ratings (not the ESPN version), eight Super Bowl-winning quarterbacks were also the best quarterbacks during the regular season in their Super Bowl winning year by rating, including:
1966, Bart Starr (105)
1971, Roger Staubach (104.8)
1976, Ken Stabler (103.4)
1989, Joe Montana (112.4)
1994, Steve Young (112.8, highest regular season rating of any Super-Bowl-winning QB)
1999, Kurt Warner (109.2)
2006, Peyton Manning (101.0)
2009, Drew Brees (109.6)
And a fair number finished 2nd in the NFL in QB Rating during the regular season, including Staubach ('77), Bradshaw ('78), Montana ('84), Rypien ('91), Aikman ('93), Favre ('96), and Brady ('16).
And which Super Bowl-winning quarterbacks fared the worst compared with their peers? Which had an NFL passer rating that placed them 20th or worse in the NFL? The list includes:
1974 Bradshaw (55.2, 25th)
2000 Dilfer (76.6, 20th)
2008 Eli Manning (73.9, 25th)
2009 Ben Roethlisberger (80.1, 24th)
2015 Peyton Manning (67.9, 34th, by far the worst regular season showing of a Super Bowl winning quarterback)
I didn't include three Super Bowl-winning QBs who were part-timers during the regular season, but were forced to start during the Super Bowl:
1987 Doug Williams (94.0, 21st)
1990 Jeff Hostetler (89.0, 26th)
2017 Nick Foles (76.7, 26th)
Stanford quarterback stats of interest:
1970 Unitas (65.1, 17th) didn't have a great season. Brodie finished with a 93.8 rating, best in the NFL.
1980 Plunkett (72.9, 17th)
1983 Plunkett (82.7, 11th)
1997 Elway (87.5, 7th)
1998 Elway (93.0, 5th)
Statistics are attached.
RE: The best Super Bowl QBs - 82lsju - 07-27-2020
here's how the NFL calculates QB rating, same formula since 1973 and probably used to back calculate the players before 1973
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passer_rating#NFL_and_CFL_formula
it has four components, completion percentage, yards per attempt, touchdowns per attempt, and interceptions per attempt.
I think the rules changes, the shift from running to passing, and generally less emphasis on long passing help more recent QBs to score better
Quote: When the formula was first created, a 66.7 rating indicated an average performance, and a 100+ rating indicated an excellent performance. However, passing performance has improved steadily since then and in 2017 the league average rating was 88.6.
(07-27-2020, 02:58 PM)oregontim Wrote: The whole post below (and thanks Mick, good one) makes me curious ... did the ratings systems change over time? Seems like a rough correlation with earlier QBs having lower ratings. Or is it maybe that the game changed, offenses changed, rules changed to protect QBs more? Were these things calculated the same in 1970 as in 2020?
RE: The best Super Bowl QBs - Phogge - 07-27-2020
Mick, Walsh credited Sid Gillman of the Chargers. Way before your time. Baugh and Sid Luckman were the preeminent OB's in the NFL before Graham, Waterfield and Van Brocklin.
RE: The best Super Bowl QBs - Mick - 07-27-2020
(07-27-2020, 03:30 PM)Phogge Wrote: Mick, Walsh credited Sid Gillman of the Chargers. Way before your time. Baugh and Sid Luckman were the preeminent OB's in the NFL before Graham, Waterfield and Van Brocklin.
You're right, Phogge, that was it, I was thinking of the wrong Sid ____man. Confused Luckman and Gillman. Knew about Paul Brown...
lex24 - lex24 - 07-29-2020
(07-27-2020, 03:28 PM)82lsju Wrote: here's how the NFL calculates QB rating, same formula since 1973 and probably used to back calculate the players before 1973
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passer_rating#NFL_and_CFL_formula
it has four components, completion percentage, yards per attempt, touchdowns per attempt, and interceptions per attempt.
I think the rules changes, the shift from running to passing, and generally less emphasis on long passing help more recent QBs to score better
Quote: When the formula was first created, a 66.7 rating indicated an average performance, and a 100+ rating indicated an excellent performance. However, passing performance has improved steadily since then and in 2017 the league average rating was 88.6.
(07-27-2020, 02:58 PM)oregontim Wrote: The whole post below (and thanks Mick, good one) makes me curious ... did the ratings systems change over time? Seems like a rough correlation with earlier QBs having lower ratings. Or is it maybe that the game changed, offenses changed, rules changed to protect QBs more? Were these things calculated the same in 1970 as in 2020?
Game has changed massively since the 70’s. In those days you could mail receivers and slaughter QB’s. Plus passing game was vertical. Teams ran. Heck I think the Dolphins threw about 15 passes (if that) in their early 70’s SB’s.
Gillman/Walsh changed the game and its evolved from that. Plus the rule changes. DBs don’t have a fighting chance.
Now about half the passes are long handoffs, you can’t touch receiver past 5 yards and QBs are uber protected. That is why you can’t use stats to compare between eras. Simply a different game now.
RE: lex24 - BostonCard - 07-29-2020
(07-29-2020, 10:18 AM)lex24 Wrote: Game has changed massively since the 70’s. In those days you could mail receivers and slaughter QB’s.
Man, I know the NFL wasn't as rich a league back then, but you'd hope they could afford to fly the receivers in coach at least.
BC