Fruitvale - Printable Version
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Fruitvale - lex24 - 08-09-2020
Good article in East Bay Newspaper Group (and I assume SJMerc) about the heavy concentration of Covid in the Fruitvale section of Oakland. It is getting hit hard. Heavily Latinx. It has more cases than any other area of Alameda County. Multi generational families living in close quarters. And family members that work in “essential” businesses, such as construction and often take mass transit to work.
Exactly the high risk areas, through no “fault” of their own, that Ive been talking about. (Indeed the opposite of “fault”. These people are simply trying to survive). And that has been , imo, underreported and more importantly underaddressed in the Pandemic.
Kim Watkins-Tartt is the Alameda County public health director. She noted that they were “flying blind” early on without community testing. That made it hard to know how prevelant the virus was in neighborhoods like Fruitvale that became hot spots. “I’m not an epidemiologist, but I’m pretty sure if we had been able to test sooner in those locations we would have seen disease sooner in those locations and it would have informed our next steps afterward.”
To me, that is an admission of gross negligence. From the beginning it was know that this disease was spread by airborne transmission. That distancing was important. She knows (or darn well should know) of the communities within Alameda county where this distancing (and sheltering in place) would be most difficult given the concentration of people living and working in tight quarters. Add less health care resources and it’s not difficult to envision such an area having a major problem.
This was, from the beginning a problem with the one size fits all County (and State) Orders. And hopefully it’s something we learn from in the future.
The second thing that I found disturbing in the article is there really is no indication as to any changes moving forward. It seems to me – and perhaps this is simply a pipe dream that there should be a public private partnership on this. (There has been some of this - Working Solutions has given $1,000,000 to small businesses in the area) Certainly our captains of industry the Internet chieftains etc. shoveling in their billions of dollars could be aligned to help. Fruitvale is an example in Alameda county. Los Angeles county I have to believe has similar hotspots areas within the county. Perhaps an answer is to pour some real money into those hot Spots with the caveat that they are to- in return for the economic assistance -completely shut things down for a time period.
I don’t know if it’s possible quite honestly. It probably isn’t. It might not even be constitutional. And I think they’d be lots of questions vis-à-vis social economic/racial/ ethnic issues. But the answer to those questions would be along the lines of we are essentially supporting and protecting these communities to keep them going during this time while we are also hopefully slowing down significantly the spread of this disease.
I know I would contribute some money to assist the people of Fruitvale and other similar areas in Alameda county (and they exist – although not to the rate of Fruitvale)Not that it would make a major difference I’m no millionaire. But I believe there are tens of thousands of people in the bay area who would also be happily willing to do so given a program that was actually set up to help deal with the situation.
We have spent a lot of time focusing on “selfish people“ and wearing a mask. And certainly wearing a mask is very very important. So the focus on that is understandable. The “selfish people angle“ has been I believe very much overblown. I’ve said that many a time. But fine – those people who are attending large indoor parties going to bars etc. with no social distancing or masking deserve to be called out. So I don’t have a problem with that either. I just don’t believe they are the main contributor to the spread. They are, however, an easy mark.
I think we need to start thinking a little bit outside the box. And getting private sector and especially big businesses involved in significantly contributing economically to these communities makes sense. At least that’s my belief
RE: Friutvale - Farm93 - 08-09-2020
(08-09-2020, 11:17 AM)lex24 Wrote: We have spent a lot of time focusing on “selfish people“ and wearing a mask. And certainly wearing a mask is very very important. So the focus on that is understandable. The “selfish people angle“ has been I believe very much overblown. I’ve said that many a time. But fine – those people who are attending large indoor parties going to bars etc. with no social distancing or masking deserve to be called out. So I don’t have a problem with that either. I just don’t believe they are the main contributor to the spread. They are, however, an easy mark.Organized regional testing couple with telling maskless people they are stupid & selfish have worked wonders in the State of New York.
Let's not knock it until we try it nationally. NY, and the rest of the world, have controlled spread with masks, tests, science and math. Other solutions are likely viable too, but seems far easier to do the things that have already been proven effective IMHO.
POTUS likes to call people nasty, lazy and slow every night, so he just needs to tweet about a different group of people and we will be on our way to a decent new normal like the ones in Germany, New Zealand, Australia, and Canada.
lex24 - lex24 - 08-09-2020
(08-09-2020, 12:20 PM)Farm93 Wrote:(08-09-2020, 11:17 AM)lex24 Wrote: We have spent a lot of time focusing on “selfish people“ and wearing a mask. And certainly wearing a mask is very very important. So the focus on that is understandable. The “selfish people angle“ has been I believe very much overblown. I’ve said that many a time. But fine – those people who are attending large indoor parties going to bars etc. with no social distancing or masking deserve to be called out. So I don’t have a problem with that either. I just don’t believe they are the main contributor to the spread. They are, however, an easy mark.Organized regional testing couple with telling maskless people they are stupid & selfish have worked wonders in the State of New York.
Let's not knock it until we try it nationally. NY, and the rest of the world, have controlled spread with masks, tests, science and math. Other solutions are likely viable too, but seems far easier to do the things that have already been proven effective IMHO.
POTUS likes to call people nasty, lazy and slow every night, so he just needs to tweet about a different group of people and we will be on our way to a decent new normal like the ones in Germany, New Zealand, Australia, and Canada.
Let me ask a simple question – is it possible to respond to something like this without bringing in Trump? Which my post had absolutely nothing to do with. I was talking state and local. If you think there should be national responses to these, then by all means let’s see the legislation for the next time we face this. Giving the Feds power over all state police power issues in a national health emergency. And be careful,what you wish for,
I wasn’t suggesting that we don’t mask up completely etc. I will say it’s not gonna happen. Because there’s gonna be a certain percentage of people who just won’t do it no matter what you do. Sorry that’s just the facts. I’m not saying it’s right I’m just saying it’s the way it is. My post pertained to having more control within communities - and looking for ways to achieve that. Something that cannot be done nationally by the way.
As for New York - what worked “wonders“ is 50,000 people dying in New York and New Jersey. So it hit home a little more readily, albeit a little late. Meanwhile, Cuomo is begging people to come back while de Blasio suggests no one buy a car. Beautiful. I think it’s beyond hysterical that New York is being held up as some kind of positive example. Give me a break
RE: Friutvale - chrisk - 08-09-2020
Some of the people living in the most infected zip codes are essential workers in wealthier zip codes. This may result in the virus moving back and forth between these areas. While the rate of cases in northern SCC is well below San Jose and South County, the rate of infection has been increasing rapidly in Palo Alto as well recently.
lex24 - lex24 - 08-09-2020
(08-09-2020, 05:40 PM)chrisk Wrote: Some of the people living in the most infected zip codes are essential workers in wealthier zip codes. This may result inn the virus moving back and forth between these areas. While the rate of cases in northern SCC is well below San Jose and South County, the rate of infection has been increasing rapidly in Palo Alto as well recently.
Makes sense. I’m not suggesting these are easy issues. Far from it. I know there are things we can and should all do to make things better etc. But I also think that looking at the reality of the situation demographically is important and figuring out ways to tone down hotspots in lower income areas is no easy task. I don’t know if it’s something government - at the local or even state level can handle. And certainly it’s not something the federal government can handle across 50 states and tens of thousands of counties cities etc. So moving forward looking at creative ways to deal with these issues I think is important. If not for this pandemic then for the next one. And how local business interests can help to me is one thing to look at. They have an invested interest after all
RE: lex24 - Goose - 08-09-2020
(08-09-2020, 05:55 PM)lex24 Wrote:I think it is instructive to read https://www.smchealth.org/health-officer-updates/july-20-2020-health-officer-statement. As is pointed out there, many of the people in these essential workers category "...live with lack of trust in, and in fact have downright fear of, government." Therefore, solutions eminating from the government probably will be totally ineffective. It appears to be a catch-22. I am inquiring what San Mateo County is doing to address this problem. I know they at one time had hotel space for people who couldn't isolate. Beyond that, I don't know, but I am trying to find out. Certainly whatever it is does not appear to be working based on the numbers shown on the dashboard before they took them down.(08-09-2020, 05:40 PM)chrisk Wrote: Some of the people living in the most infected zip codes are essential workers in wealthier zip codes. This may result inn the virus moving back and forth between these areas. While the rate of cases in northern SCC is well below San Jose and South County, the rate of infection has been increasing rapidly in Palo Alto as well recently.
Makes sense. I’m not suggesting these are easy issues. Far from it. I know there are things we can and should all do to make things better etc. But I also think that looking at the reality of the situation demographically is important and figuring out ways to tone down hotspots in lower income areas is no easy task. I don’t know if it’s something government - at the local or even state level can handle. And certainly it’s not something the federal government can handle across 50 states and tens of thousands of counties cities etc. So moving forward looking at creative ways to deal with these issues I think is important. If not for this pandemic then for the next one. And how local business interests can help to me is one thing to look at. They have an invested interest after all
lex24 - lex24 - 08-09-2020
(08-09-2020, 07:15 PM)Goose Wrote:(08-09-2020, 05:55 PM)lex24 Wrote:I think it is instructive to read https://www.smchealth.org/health-officer-updates/july-20-2020-health-officer-statement. As is pointed out there, many of the people in these essential workers category "...live with lack of trust in, and in fact have downright fear of, government." Therefore, solutions eminating from the government probably will be totally ineffective. It appears to be a catch-22. I am inquiring what San Mateo County is doing to address this problem. I know they at one time had hotel space for people who couldn't isolate. Beyond that, I don't know, but I am trying to find out. Certainly whatever it is does not appear to be working based on the numbers shown on the dashboard before they took them down.(08-09-2020, 05:40 PM)chrisk Wrote: Some of the people living in the most infected zip codes are essential workers in wealthier zip codes. This may result inn the virus moving back and forth between these areas. While the rate of cases in northern SCC is well below San Jose and South County, the rate of infection has been increasing rapidly in Palo Alto as well recently.
Makes sense. I’m not suggesting these are easy issues. Far from it. I know there are things we can and should all do to make things better etc. But I also think that looking at the reality of the situation demographically is important and figuring out ways to tone down hotspots in lower income areas is no easy task. I don’t know if it’s something government - at the local or even state level can handle. And certainly it’s not something the federal government can handle across 50 states and tens of thousands of counties cities etc. So moving forward looking at creative ways to deal with these issues I think is important. If not for this pandemic then for the next one. And how local business interests can help to me is one thing to look at. They have an invested interest after all
I understand what he saying and agree with some of it but I really question whether that’s his function.
In fact, I don’t question it. It is way beyond his function. If he wants to be a social justice warrior for economic theory then so be it. But that’s not his function. As a healthcare director. He should act like one.
RE: lex24 - Goose - 08-09-2020
(08-09-2020, 07:24 PM)lex24 Wrote:I agree that his "social commentary" was out of place, IMHO. I suspect Scott Morrow went off on a bit of a rant because he is horribly frustrated that much of the tracking and tracing work his department has been doing is useless because people won't cooperate. However, in terms of the point he made about the "essential workers" being the "majority" (no percentage given, why not?) of his COVID-19 positives and further that he was not getting isolation and quarantine cooperation from them IS his function, and he has been more direct about this situation than anybody else I have seen in the Bay Area. I give him lots of credit for that. Unfortunately, he hasn't stated what should be done to obtain that cooperation. His statement about not trusting government and actually fearing it makes it hard to believe SMCHealth has a plan to fix the problem. I too have plenty of "social commentary" about the entire situation, but it helps nothing right now. What is needed is a plan that has some hope of working.(08-09-2020, 07:15 PM)Goose Wrote:(08-09-2020, 05:55 PM)lex24 Wrote:I think it is instructive to read https://www.smchealth.org/health-officer-updates/july-20-2020-health-officer-statement. As is pointed out there, many of the people in these essential workers category "...live with lack of trust in, and in fact have downright fear of, government." Therefore, solutions eminating from the government probably will be totally ineffective. It appears to be a catch-22. I am inquiring what San Mateo County is doing to address this problem. I know they at one time had hotel space for people who couldn't isolate. Beyond that, I don't know, but I am trying to find out. Certainly whatever it is does not appear to be working based on the numbers shown on the dashboard before they took them down.(08-09-2020, 05:40 PM)chrisk Wrote: Some of the people living in the most infected zip codes are essential workers in wealthier zip codes. This may result inn the virus moving back and forth between these areas. While the rate of cases in northern SCC is well below San Jose and South County, the rate of infection has been increasing rapidly in Palo Alto as well recently.
Makes sense. I’m not suggesting these are easy issues. Far from it. I know there are things we can and should all do to make things better etc. But I also think that looking at the reality of the situation demographically is important and figuring out ways to tone down hotspots in lower income areas is no easy task. I don’t know if it’s something government - at the local or even state level can handle. And certainly it’s not something the federal government can handle across 50 states and tens of thousands of counties cities etc. So moving forward looking at creative ways to deal with these issues I think is important. If not for this pandemic then for the next one. And how local business interests can help to me is one thing to look at. They have an invested interest after all
I understand what he saying and agree with some of it but I really question whether that’s his function.
In fact, I don’t question it. It is way beyond his function. If he wants to be a social justice warrior for economic theory then so be it. But that’s not his function. As a healthcare director. He should act like one.
lex24 - lex24 - 08-09-2020
(08-09-2020, 09:13 PM)Goose Wrote:(08-09-2020, 07:24 PM)lex24 Wrote:I agree that his "social commentary" was out of place, IMHO. I suspect Scott Morrow went off on a bit of a rant because he is horribly frustrated that much of the tracking and tracing work his department has been doing is useless because people won't cooperate. However, in terms of the point he made about the "essential workers" being the "majority" (no percentage given, why not?) of his COVID-19 positives and further that he was not getting isolation and quarantine cooperation from them IS his function, and he has been more direct about this situation than anybody else I have seen in the Bay Area. I give him lots of credit for that. Unfortunately, he hasn't stated what should be done to obtain that cooperation. His statement about not trusting government and actually fearing it makes it hard to believe SMCHealth has a plan to fix the problem. I too have plenty of "social commentary" about the entire situation, but it helps nothing right now. What is needed is a plan that has some hope of working.(08-09-2020, 07:15 PM)Goose Wrote:(08-09-2020, 05:55 PM)lex24 Wrote:I think it is instructive to read https://www.smchealth.org/health-officer-updates/july-20-2020-health-officer-statement. As is pointed out there, many of the people in these essential workers category "...live with lack of trust in, and in fact have downright fear of, government." Therefore, solutions eminating from the government probably will be totally ineffective. It appears to be a catch-22. I am inquiring what San Mateo County is doing to address this problem. I know they at one time had hotel space for people who couldn't isolate. Beyond that, I don't know, but I am trying to find out. Certainly whatever it is does not appear to be working based on the numbers shown on the dashboard before they took them down.(08-09-2020, 05:40 PM)chrisk Wrote: Some of the people living in the most infected zip codes are essential workers in wealthier zip codes. This may result inn the virus moving back and forth between these areas. While the rate of cases in northern SCC is well below San Jose and South County, the rate of infection has been increasing rapidly in Palo Alto as well recently.
Makes sense. I’m not suggesting these are easy issues. Far from it. I know there are things we can and should all do to make things better etc. But I also think that looking at the reality of the situation demographically is important and figuring out ways to tone down hotspots in lower income areas is no easy task. I don’t know if it’s something government - at the local or even state level can handle. And certainly it’s not something the federal government can handle across 50 states and tens of thousands of counties cities etc. So moving forward looking at creative ways to deal with these issues I think is important. If not for this pandemic then for the next one. And how local business interests can help to me is one thing to look at. They have an invested interest after all
I understand what he saying and agree with some of it but I really question whether that’s his function.
In fact, I don’t question it. It is way beyond his function. If he wants to be a social justice warrior for economic theory then so be it. But that’s not his function. As a healthcare director. He should act like one.
Well said. And Goose, I applaud your continued efforts with SMCHealth.
RE: lex24 - akiddoc - 08-10-2020
(08-09-2020, 11:02 PM)lex24 Wrote:(08-09-2020, 09:13 PM)Goose Wrote:(08-09-2020, 07:24 PM)lex24 Wrote:I agree that his "social commentary" was out of place, IMHO. I suspect Scott Morrow went off on a bit of a rant because he is horribly frustrated that much of the tracking and tracing work his department has been doing is useless because people won't cooperate. However, in terms of the point he made about the "essential workers" being the "majority" (no percentage given, why not?) of his COVID-19 positives and further that he was not getting isolation and quarantine cooperation from them IS his function, and he has been more direct about this situation than anybody else I have seen in the Bay Area. I give him lots of credit for that. Unfortunately, he hasn't stated what should be done to obtain that cooperation. His statement about not trusting government and actually fearing it makes it hard to believe SMCHealth has a plan to fix the problem. I too have plenty of "social commentary" about the entire situation, but it helps nothing right now. What is needed is a plan that has some hope of working.(08-09-2020, 07:15 PM)Goose Wrote:(08-09-2020, 05:55 PM)lex24 Wrote: Makes sense. I’m not suggesting these are easy issues. Far from it. I know there are things we can and should all do to make things better etc. But I also think that looking at the reality of the situation demographically is important and figuring out ways to tone down hotspots in lower income areas is no easy task. I don’t know if it’s something government - at the local or even state level can handle. And certainly it’s not something the federal government can handle across 50 states and tens of thousands of counties cities etc. So moving forward looking at creative ways to deal with these issues I think is important. If not for this pandemic then for the next one. And how local business interests can help to me is one thing to look at. They have an invested interest after allI think it is instructive to read https://www.smchealth.org/health-officer-updates/july-20-2020-health-officer-statement. As is pointed out there, many of the people in these essential workers category "...live with lack of trust in, and in fact have downright fear of, government." Therefore, solutions eminating from the government probably will be totally ineffective. It appears to be a catch-22. I am inquiring what San Mateo County is doing to address this problem. I know they at one time had hotel space for people who couldn't isolate. Beyond that, I don't know, but I am trying to find out. Certainly whatever it is does not appear to be working based on the numbers shown on the dashboard before they took them down.
I understand what he saying and agree with some of it but I really question whether that’s his function.
In fact, I don’t question it. It is way beyond his function. If he wants to be a social justice warrior for economic theory then so be it. But that’s not his function. As a healthcare director. He should act like one.
Well said. And Goose, I applaud your continued efforts with SMCHealth.
On the topic of Fruitvale, I start a new job next week in the heart of the problem, a county clinic smack in the middle of Oakland. The education starts at the front door - where masks are dispensed and absolutely required for entry into the clinic. I guess I'll get a taste of the problem there, although the clinic I'm leaving is only a few miles away and the demographics are not particularly different.
RE: Friutvale - Mick - 08-12-2020
(08-09-2020, 05:40 PM)chrisk Wrote: Some of the people living in the most infected zip codes are essential workers in wealthier zip codes. This may result in the virus moving back and forth between these areas. While the rate of cases in northern SCC is well below San Jose and South County, the rate of infection has been increasing rapidly in Palo Alto as well recently.
My sister in law (Stanford '92) has a very nice house in Los Altos Hills, with workers who commute in from impacted zip codes. Doesn't seem to worry her.