Trump doubles down re virus misinformation (again)

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Trump doubles down re virus misinformation (again) - oregontim - 10-15-2020

Today The Hill, under the headline Trump knocks Fauci, claims he's a Democrat, quotes Trump on two terrible points.

The first, obviously, is his renewed attack on Fauci. More evidence of his "for me or against me" world, which in his mind is good vs. evil.
The second, embedded in the piece as I saw it just now, is a video of him telling has followers that a new CDC study says 85% of people wearing masks get the virus. Apparently there is a study out that finds that 85% of people in treatment reported having worn masks, which is an entirely different thing.

Here's the quote on Fauci:

Quote:“'My friend, and he’s a nice guy, Tony. Tony Fauci. He’s a nice guy. He said this is not a threat. This is not a problem. Don’t worry about it,' Trump told the crowd of supporters at an outdoor rally in Greenville, N.C.
"'And he said do not wear a mask. Do not wear a mask under any circumstances. Don’t wear a mask. Don’t. Don’t don’t, right? So we don’t wear a mask, then they say, oh, wear a mask. Did you see any conflicts?' Trump continued.
"“But he’s a nice guy so I keep him around, right? We’ll keep him around. He’s a Democrat. Everybody knows that. He’s [New York Gov. Andrew] Cuomo’s friend. Cuomo did the worst job of any governor in the United States,' Trump said, before eviscerating Cuomo’s response to the coronavirus."

And then there's this:
[tweet]https://twitter.com/thehill/status/1316805109930692610?s=20[/tweet]
BTW, allsides.com rates The Hill as "center."

RE: Trump doubles down re virus misinformation (again) - JustAnotherFan - 10-15-2020

(10-15-2020, 02:26 PM)oregontim Wrote: Today The Hill, under the headline Trump knocks Fauci, claims he's a Democrat, quotes Trump on two terrible points.

The first, obviously, is his renewed attack on Fauci. More evidence of his "for me or against me" world, which in his mind is good vs. evil.

The second, embedded in the piece as I saw it just now, is a video of him telling has followers that a new CDC study says 85% of people wearing masks get the virus. Apparently there is a study out that finds that 85% of people in treatment reported having worn masks, which is an entirely different thing.

Here's the quote on Fauci:

Quote:“'My friend, and he’s a nice guy, Tony. Tony Fauci. He’s a nice guy. He said this is not a threat. This is not a problem. Don’t worry about it,' Trump told the crowd of supporters at an outdoor rally in Greenville, N.C.
"'And he said do not wear a mask. Do not wear a mask under any circumstances. Don’t wear a mask. Don’t. Don’t don’t, right? So we don’t wear a mask, then they say, oh, wear a mask. Did you see any conflicts?' Trump continued.
"“But he’s a nice guy so I keep him around, right? We’ll keep him around. He’s a Democrat. Everybody knows that. He’s [New York Gov. Andrew] Cuomo’s friend. Cuomo did the worst job of any governor in the United States,' Trump said, before eviscerating Cuomo’s response to the coronavirus."
And then there's this:
[tweet]https://twitter.com/thehill/status/1316805109930692610?s=20[/tweet]
BTW, allsides.com rates The Hill as "center."

Wow, what trash. He "keeps him around"? If what Trump said about Fauci was true that would be dereliction of duty on Trump's part. So even in his attempts to point fingers at others he makes it clear that Trump is still the problem.

RE: Trump doubles down re virus misinformation (again) - fullmetal - 10-15-2020

Quote:"'And he said do not wear a mask. Do not wear a mask under any circumstances. Don’t wear a mask. Don’t. Don’t don’t, right?'"

I can't believe people listen to the stuff he says.

RE: Trump doubles down re virus misinformation (again) - oregontim - 10-15-2020

(10-15-2020, 02:57 PM)fullmetal Wrote:
Quote:"'And he said do not wear a mask. Do not wear a mask under any circumstances. Don’t wear a mask. Don’t. Don’t don’t, right?'"

I can't believe people listen to the stuff he says.

Agreed. So sad. Disastrous current events these days, stuff I would have never thought possible.

RE: Trump doubles down re virus misinformation (again) - Mick - 10-16-2020

(10-15-2020, 03:11 PM)oregontim Wrote:
(10-15-2020, 02:57 PM)fullmetal Wrote:
Quote:"'And he said do not wear a mask. Do not wear a mask under any circumstances. Don’t wear a mask. Don’t. Don’t don’t, right?'"

I can't believe people listen to the stuff he says.

Agreed. So sad. Disastrous current events these days, stuff I would have never thought possible.

I can't believe that Biden/Harris was the best that the Dems could do...

RE: Trump doubles down re virus misinformation (again) - DocSavage87 - 10-16-2020

(10-16-2020, 06:22 AM)Mick Wrote:
(10-15-2020, 03:11 PM)oregontim Wrote:
(10-15-2020, 02:57 PM)fullmetal Wrote:
Quote:"'And he said do not wear a mask. Do not wear a mask under any circumstances. Don’t wear a mask. Don’t. Don’t don’t, right?'"

I can't believe people listen to the stuff he says.

Agreed. So sad. Disastrous current events these days, stuff I would have never thought possible.

I can't believe that Biden/Harris was the best that the Dems could do...

Yeah, when faced with a president who is actively undermining our ability to prevent spread of the virus, it's important to focus on deficiencies of the challenger.

RE: Trump doubles down re virus misinformation (again) - BostonCard - 10-16-2020

(10-16-2020, 06:22 AM)Mick Wrote: I can't believe that Biden/Harris was the best that the Dems could do...

(warning, I am going into Terry rule territory, but...)

My hypothesis after last night's dueling town halls is that Biden may not have been best Democratic candidate, but he was the best Democratic candidate to put out against Donald Trump. I think match-ups matter, and in this election, Dems seem to have picked the candidate who a) is teflon against Trump's insults and attempts to discredit and b) is (in the words of a Trump advisor) the political equivalent of Mr. Rogers. After the last four years, I think a lot of Americans want someone like Mr. Rogers in the White House.

If polls are to be believed, "the best the Dems could do" is lead Trump by 10 points less than three weeks before the election and force Trump to campaign in Georgia and spend money in Texas. Of course, leading in polls by 10 points three weeks before the election is approximately the equivalent to being a 15 point favorite in college football the week before the game, which is to say, every once in a while a big favorite loses in the actual game (*cough* USC in 2007 *cough*).

BC

RE: Trump doubles down re virus misinformation (again) - teejers1 - 10-16-2020

(10-16-2020, 06:45 AM)DocSavage87 Wrote:
(10-16-2020, 06:22 AM)Mick Wrote:
(10-15-2020, 03:11 PM)oregontim Wrote:
(10-15-2020, 02:57 PM)fullmetal Wrote:
Quote:"'And he said do not wear a mask. Do not wear a mask under any circumstances. Don’t wear a mask. Don’t. Don’t don’t, right?'"

I can't believe people listen to the stuff he says.

Agreed. So sad. Disastrous current events these days, stuff I would have never thought possible.

I can't believe that Biden/Harris was the best that the Dems could do...

Yeah, when faced with a president who is actively undermining our ability to prevent spread of the virus, it's important to focus on deficiencies of the challenger.

Well, if the goal is to remove the incumbent who is actively undermining ability to prevent spread of the virus, you think you might want to vet the deficiencies of the challenger. I mean, the goal is to win in November, right? BTW, I agree with BC re: match-ups and long thought the Dems should run a white male against Trump. Still, Old Joe is a bit risky on the marbles front . . . but with the assistance of an agenda-driven MSM, Joe should come out on top.

Given my personal outlook, I'm good with the end play. But I can still lament the condition of the Fourth Estate (I blame the Internet!).

RE: Trump doubles down re virus misinformation (again) - BostonCard - 10-16-2020

Yesterday's town hall should have reassured you about both Biden's marbles (unless you buy that he is on some sort of PED, in which case, I want to get a bit of what he's allegedly taking), and on the idea that he is unvetted. He clearly stated his plans, including what to do with the COVID-19 outbreak.

I also disagree with you that he is going to win because of "an agenda-driven MSM". If he wins, he will have won because Trump is handing him the election, and Biden is being smart enough to let Trump keep digging. Frank Luntz (a Republican focus group guru) put it best:

[tweet]https://twitter.com/FrankLuntz/status/1316908644034875398?s=20[/tweet]

Re-elections are referenda on the incumbent, and Trump has done his absolute utmost, independent of the "MSM", of making himself un-re-electable to a good portion of the electorate.

BC

RE: Trump doubles down re virus misinformation (again) - DocSavage87 - 10-16-2020

(10-16-2020, 10:12 AM)teejers1 Wrote:
(10-16-2020, 06:45 AM)DocSavage87 Wrote:
(10-16-2020, 06:22 AM)Mick Wrote:
(10-15-2020, 03:11 PM)oregontim Wrote:
(10-15-2020, 02:57 PM)fullmetal Wrote: I can't believe people listen to the stuff he says.

Agreed. So sad. Disastrous current events these days, stuff I would have never thought possible.

I can't believe that Biden/Harris was the best that the Dems could do...

Yeah, when faced with a president who is actively undermining our ability to prevent spread of the virus, it's important to focus on deficiencies of the challenger.

Well, if the goal is to remove the incumbent who is actively undermining ability to prevent spread of the virus, you think you might want to vet the deficiencies of the challenger. I mean, the goal is to win in November, right? BTW, I agree with BC re: match-ups and long thought the Dems should run a white male against Trump. Still, Old Joe is a bit risky on the marbles front . . . but with the assistance of an agenda-driven MSM, Joe should come out on top.

Given my personal outlook, I'm good with the end play. But I can still lament the condition of the Fourth Estate (I blame the Internet!).

My point about the @Mick reply is that he's really not interested in the how to best remove Trump, it's a common whataboutism-style rebuttal to people complaining about the actions of our sitting president. You can argue how I'm misinterpreting things, etc... whatever. We're talking about COVID-19 response here. The topic is about misinformation, which is clearly being disseminated by our supposed commander-in-chief. I've seen plenty of responses from those in MAGA that deflect that discussion in favor of whatever else they can. Tired of it.

RE: Trump doubles down re virus misinformation (again) - oregontim - 10-16-2020

(10-16-2020, 11:15 AM)DocSavage87 Wrote: ... it's a common whataboutism-style rebuttal to people complaining about the actions of our sitting president. You can argue how I'm misinterpreting things, etc... whatever. We're talking about COVID-19 response here. The topic is about misinformation, which is clearly being disseminated by our supposed commander-in-chief. I've seen plenty of responses from those in MAGA that deflect that discussion in favor of whatever else they can. Tired of it.

Well put, thanks.

RE: Trump doubles down re virus misinformation (again) - BostonCard - 10-16-2020

(10-16-2020, 11:15 AM)DocSavage87 Wrote: My point about the @Mick reply is that he's really not interested in the how to best remove Trump, it's a common whataboutism-style rebuttal to people complaining about the actions of our sitting president. You can argue how I'm misinterpreting things, etc... whatever. We're talking about COVID-19 response here. The topic is about misinformation, which is clearly being disseminated by our supposed commander-in-chief. I've seen plenty of responses from those in MAGA that deflect that discussion in favor of whatever else they can. Tired of it.

Not really. I think some people react negatively to unthinking criticism of President Trump even as they agree with a lot of it. And while I am sympathetic to the "Any Sentient Adult 2020" campaign, assuming Trump is voted out, this pandemic will be with us long after he is gone, and we are going to have to start thinking about how his successor deals with it. Voting Trump out is necessary but not sufficient for us to get ahold of this pandemic.

BC

RE: Trump doubles down re virus misinformation (again) - teejers1 - 10-16-2020

(10-16-2020, 10:59 AM)BostonCard Wrote: Yesterday's town hall should have reassured you about both Biden's marbles (unless you buy that he is on some sort of PED, in which case, I want to get a bit of what he's allegedly taking), and on the idea that he is unvetted. He clearly stated his plans, including what to do with the COVID-19 outbreak.

I also disagree with you that he is going to win because of "an agenda-driven MSM". If he wins, he will have won because Trump is handing him the election, and Biden is being smart enough to let Trump keep digging. Frank Luntz (a Republican focus group guru) put it best:

[tweet]https://twitter.com/FrankLuntz/status/1316908644034875398?s=20[/tweet]

Re-elections are referenda on the incumbent, and Trump has done his absolute utmost, independent of the "MSM", of making himself un-re-electable to a good portion of the electorate.

BC

Biden reassured me "enough" at the debate. I personally don't think he should do anymore. There's only downside.

As for MSM, it's not that Biden is going to win because of MSM Agenda-ism - Trump has himself to thank/blame for the outcome in November. But Biden certainly has been (and will continue to be) aided by the media. Try and think of it this way: say Joe were running against moderate Republican in an open presidential (no incumbent). Do you think just maybe Biden's sexual harassment history (when he was a grown-up adult, and not in HS, as was the Supreme Court candidate) might receive a little more "run" than it has received in this cycle? It's like: okay we'll give it some attention until Dems figure out for sure who is running against Trump, but then that's it.

That is just one example. Some people (not many, when you press them) actually believe that the MSM is neutral when it comes to the sitting president. I find that a form of denial. But I know lots of people who don't care and think Trump "deserves it." I find that a reasonable position. But it does lead me back to the Fourth Estate concern more generally.

RE: Trump doubles down re virus misinformation (again) - JustAnotherFan - 10-16-2020

(10-16-2020, 06:45 AM)DocSavage87 Wrote:
(10-16-2020, 06:22 AM)Mick Wrote:
(10-15-2020, 03:11 PM)oregontim Wrote:
(10-15-2020, 02:57 PM)fullmetal Wrote:
Quote:"'And he said do not wear a mask. Do not wear a mask under any circumstances. Don’t wear a mask. Don’t. Don’t don’t, right?'"

I can't believe people listen to the stuff he says.

Agreed. So sad. Disastrous current events these days, stuff I would have never thought possible.

I can't believe that Biden/Harris was the best that the Dems could do...

Yeah, when faced with a president who is actively undermining our ability to prevent spread of the virus, it's important to focus on deficiencies of the challenger.

Well Biden/Harris have lots of deficiencies so maybe the Democrats could have done better in this moment?

RE: Trump doubles down re virus misinformation (again) - BostonCard - 10-16-2020

(10-16-2020, 03:47 PM)teejers1 Wrote:
(10-16-2020, 10:59 AM)BostonCard Wrote: Yesterday's town hall should have reassured you about both Biden's marbles (unless you buy that he is on some sort of PED, in which case, I want to get a bit of what he's allegedly taking), and on the idea that he is unvetted. He clearly stated his plans, including what to do with the COVID-19 outbreak.

I also disagree with you that he is going to win because of "an agenda-driven MSM". If he wins, he will have won because Trump is handing him the election, and Biden is being smart enough to let Trump keep digging. Frank Luntz (a Republican focus group guru) put it best:

[tweet]https://twitter.com/FrankLuntz/status/1316908644034875398?s=20[/tweet]

Re-elections are referenda on the incumbent, and Trump has done his absolute utmost, independent of the "MSM", of making himself un-re-electable to a good portion of the electorate.

BC

Biden reassured me "enough" at the debate. I personally don't think he should do anymore. There's only downside.

As for MSM, it's not that Biden is going to win because of MSM Agenda-ism - Trump has himself to thank/blame for the outcome in November. But Biden certainly has been (and will continue to be) aided by the media. Try and think of it this way: say Joe were running against moderate Republican in an open presidential (no incumbent). Do you think just maybe Biden's sexual harassment history (when he was a grown-up adult, and not in HS, as was the Supreme Court candidate) might receive a little more "run" than it has received in this cycle? It's like: okay we'll give it some attention until Dems figure out for sure who is running against Trump, but then that's it.

That is just one example. Some people (not many, when you press them) actually believe that the MSM is neutral when it comes to the sitting president. I find that a form of denial. But I know lots of people who don't care and think Trump "deserves it." I find that a reasonable position. But it does lead me back to the Fourth Estate concern more generally.

The MSM isn't talking a lot about sexual assault allegations against either candidate to be honest. We have, unfortunately, become numb to such allegations.

As for MSM, I present you:

[Image: Figure1_CJR.jpg]

vs.

[Image: nytruss1.png?auto=compress%2Cformat&q=90]

The top left paper (New Emails Jolt Clinton Campaign in Race's Last Days) came out on Oct. 29; the "no clear link to Russia" came out Oct. 31.

BC

RE: Trump doubles down re virus misinformation (again) - chrisk - 10-16-2020

(10-16-2020, 05:48 PM)JustAnotherFan Wrote:
(10-16-2020, 06:45 AM)DocSavage87 Wrote:
(10-16-2020, 06:22 AM)Mick Wrote:
(10-15-2020, 03:11 PM)oregontim Wrote:
(10-15-2020, 02:57 PM)fullmetal Wrote: I can't believe people listen to the stuff he says.

Agreed. So sad. Disastrous current events these days, stuff I would have never thought possible.

I can't believe that Biden/Harris was the best that the Dems could do...

Yeah, when faced with a president who is actively undermining our ability to prevent spread of the virus, it's important to focus on deficiencies of the challenger.

Well Biden/Harris have lots of deficiencies so maybe the Democrats could have done better in this moment?

Biden faced a lot of challengers and none could measure up to him in the parry process? The smoke-filled room might have come up with a better candidate but there is no guarantee. The problem with primaries is centrist candidates have trouble getting traction, but Biden overcame that with his big advantage in recognition.

RE: Trump doubles down re virus misinformation (again) - DocSavage87 - 10-17-2020

(10-16-2020, 03:47 PM)teejers1 Wrote: That is just one example. Some people (not many, when you press them) actually believe that the MSM is neutral when it comes to the sitting president. I find that a form of denial. But I know lots of people who don't care and think Trump "deserves it." I find that a reasonable position. But it does lead me back to the Fourth Estate concern more generally.

The MSM print a lot of ridiculous and frankly impeachable things Trump has done because Trump has done all of those and more. There's no question that the pundits (Hannity et al on left, Maddow et al on the right) are clearly biased but none of them are MSM in my mind. They are talk shows. The reason WAPO and NYT breaks all these damning investigative stories are there's actually a lot of damning stuff. And frankly, I think people would be stupid to think there's not a lot more as well that has been blocked by extraordinary efforts. Eventually these things leak out like how CDC was pressured throughout this pandemic including modifying meat packing plant recommendations and playing footsies with their website regarding accurate public policy.

It's similar to how MAGA claims anyone who is a whistleblower or resigns either (1) didn't do their job well or (2) hate Trump, while not considering the reason they couldn't do their job or hate Trump is because of his actions. The COVID-19 situation is a very clear indicator of this. Rick Bright finally resigned. Olivia Troye is harder for them to explain. Fauci is trying not to be political but they are making it very hard for him to do so between their undermining of the pandemic response and also false advertising of his comments. I guess MAGA can now make case that New England Journal of Medicine, Scientific American, Nature journal, etc, are all clearly biased because they broke tradition and endorsed a political candidate, not because the actions Trump has taken has provoked a significant response.

RE: Trump doubles down re virus misinformation (again) - JustAnotherFan - 10-17-2020

(10-16-2020, 07:51 PM)chrisk Wrote:
(10-16-2020, 05:48 PM)JustAnotherFan Wrote:
(10-16-2020, 06:45 AM)DocSavage87 Wrote:
(10-16-2020, 06:22 AM)Mick Wrote:
(10-15-2020, 03:11 PM)oregontim Wrote: Agreed. So sad. Disastrous current events these days, stuff I would have never thought possible.

I can't believe that Biden/Harris was the best that the Dems could do...

Yeah, when faced with a president who is actively undermining our ability to prevent spread of the virus, it's important to focus on deficiencies of the challenger.

Well Biden/Harris have lots of deficiencies so maybe the Democrats could have done better in this moment?

Biden faced a lot of challengers and none could measure up to him in the parry process? The smoke-filled room might have come up with a better candidate but there is no guarantee. The problem with primaries is centrist candidates have trouble getting traction, but Biden overcame that with his big advantage in recognition.

The smoke-filled room came up with Biden and it was an example of them failing to rise to the occasion. They actively worked against the moderately left candidates in Sanders, Warren, and Castro, and rallied around Biden before South Carolina in an effort to protect the establishment from Sanders who was in position to win a majority of the delegates unless everyone else coalesced behind the center-right candidate. They laughed at those who want to prioritize racial justice and end police brutality, they laughed at those who (naively) want government to work for the people instead of corporations, they laughed at those who want a real national mobilization against the pandemic, and they laughed at those who want to actually take climate change seriously. They know that their base isn't in people who want to help improve the lives of all people in the United States.

And if they win they'll celebrate the party's ability to choose the candidate, and if they lose they'll just blame Sanders or Jill Stein. Nothing will be learned.

Edit, I said Jill Stein when I should have said Howie Hawkins. But I have a feeling they'll still blame Jill Stein.

RE: Trump doubles down re virus misinformation (again) - Mick - 10-17-2020

I don't like Biden for the same reason Obama didn't like him, and for the reason that HRC got the nod in 2016. He just isn't that good, and he's got a lot of baggage. He makes the upcoming election needlessly close. I thought he would take Liz Warren as his running mate to appeal to the Progressive voters, which he needs. Instead, Kamala Harris, who's a lot of things, but not presidential. She finished fifth her home state, for goodness sake. I would have taken any other candidate over Harris; e.g., Warren, Gabbard, Buttegieg, Stacey Adams, Karen Bass or Tammy Duckworth.

Biden will win, but it will be closer than it should be. And I doubt he lasts very long in that office. So I think we'll have President Kamala Harris by 2022.

RE: Trump doubles down re virus misinformation (again) - 2006alum - 10-17-2020

Feels like we've edged back into Terry Rule territory. More to the point, I feel like I know where everyone stands re: politics, Trump, etc. Still very helpful to document what's going on, and yes sometimes a bit of commentary around it is appreciated, but the excessive editorializing feels unnecessarily repetitious at this point. Just my two cents.