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K.J. and the Pirate Episode 5 - JustAnotherFan - 11-07-2020

This will be real short. 

Mississippi won their second game.

KJ stayed on the bench. 

Derek Mason coached the losing team. 

https://www.espn.com/college-football/boxscore?gameId=401237126

RE: K.J. and the Pirate Episode 5 - BostonCard - 11-07-2020

Maybe we will be able to bring Mason back as DC?

BC

RE: K.J. and the Pirate Episode 5 - JustAnotherFan - 11-07-2020

I'm amazed he's been there as long as he has been. This will be his seventh straight losing season. He's been 6-6 in regular season twice, and then lost his bowl game each time. He gets paid $2.5 million a year. Vanderbilt must have really embraced their position in the SEC.

I would LOVE him to come back as DC, though.

RE: K.J. and the Pirate Episode 5 - Austroturf - 11-08-2020

Feeling very sorry for KJ at this time.  His brilliant debut in which he looked like a potential world-beater has now given way to him riding the pines in deference to a true freshman QB who is, himself, anything but a world-beater -- and all of this on a losing team.  Very unfortunate.  Cardinal transfers have not been overly lucky in their second lives.  So far, Dylan Powell seems to be having a good go at Indiana (3-0 and highly-ranked).  Otherwise....

RE: K.J. and the Pirate Episode 5 - Spiny_Norman - 11-08-2020

(11-08-2020, 02:38 PM)Austroturf Wrote:  Feeling very sorry for KJ at this time.  His brilliant debut in which he looked like a potential world-beater has now given way to him riding the pines in deference to a true freshman QB who is, himself, anything but a world-beater -- and all of this on a losing team.  Very unfortunate.  Cardinal transfers have not been overly lucky in their second lives.  So far, Dylan Powell seems to be having a good go at Indiana (3-0 and highly-ranked).  Otherwise....

Since you brought it up, I thought I would check on the transfers (all data from ESPN.com)
Mike Williams has recorded 2 total tackles in 8 games at SMU
Donald Stewart has 5 receptions for 41 totals yards at Wake Forest
Jovan Swann has 4 total tackles in Indiana's 3 games
Obi Eboh had 3 tackles in UCLA's loss to Colorado yesterday
Trevor Speights transferred to Notre Dame but had to retire when he was not medically cleared to play

RE: K.J. and the Pirate Episode 5 - JustAnotherFan - 11-08-2020

(11-08-2020, 02:38 PM)Austroturf Wrote:  Feeling very sorry for KJ at this time.  His brilliant debut in which he looked like a potential world-beater has now given way to him riding the pines in deference to a true freshman QB who is, himself, anything but a world-beater -- and all of this on a losing team.  Very unfortunate.  Cardinal transfers have not been overly lucky in their second lives.  So far, Dylan Powell seems to be having a good go at Indiana (3-0 and highly-ranked).  Otherwise....

Isn't Dylan Powell a backup? That's what I saw on their depth chart.

RE: K.J. and the Pirate Episode 5 - donkey687 - 11-08-2020

(11-08-2020, 03:27 PM)Spiny_Norman Wrote:  
(11-08-2020, 02:38 PM)Austroturf Wrote:  Feeling very sorry for KJ at this time.  His brilliant debut in which he looked like a potential world-beater has now given way to him riding the pines in deference to a true freshman QB who is, himself, anything but a world-beater -- and all of this on a losing team.  Very unfortunate.  Cardinal transfers have not been overly lucky in their second lives.  So far, Dylan Powell seems to be having a good go at Indiana (3-0 and highly-ranked).  Otherwise....

Since you brought it up, I thought I would check on the transfers (all data from ESPN.com)
Mike Williams has recorded 2 total tackles in 8 games at SMU
Donald Stewart has 5 receptions for 41 totals yards at Wake Forest
Jovan Swann has 4 total tackles in Indiana's 3 games
Obi Eboh had 3 tackles in UCLA's loss to Colorado yesterday
Trevor Speights transferred to Notre Dame but had to retire when he was not medically cleared to play

Mike Williams opted out due to COVID and was sitting out. I didn't realize that he rejoined the team.
Devery Hamilton is starting for Duke at Right Tackle
Henry Hattis is starting at Right Guard for ASU but he may have gotten hurt as he wasn't in at end of USC game
Swann is listed as second string but plays regularly on a top 15 team.
Our OL seems to be good even without our fifth year former starters in Hattis and Hamilton, but our defense sure could use Williams, Swann and Eboh. None of them are superstars but they all would have been important parts of our defensive rotation and play positions where we are very very thin. Eboh was on the fence for transferring and I think Adeebo returning pushed him over the edge.

RE: K.J. and the Pirate Episode 5 - winflop - 11-08-2020

(11-07-2020, 06:53 PM)BostonCard Wrote:  Maybe we will be able to bring Mason back as DC?

BC

Maybe we can bring him back as HC

RE: K.J. and the Pirate Episode 5 - SamuelMcF - 11-08-2020

(11-08-2020, 10:17 PM)winflop Wrote:  
(11-07-2020, 06:53 PM)BostonCard Wrote:  Maybe we will be able to bring Mason back as DC?

BC

Maybe we can bring him back as HC

Not sure how sarcastic this is, but the job he's been doing gives me no confidence he'll be any better than what we have now.

RE: K.J. and the Pirate Episode 5 - fullmetal - 11-08-2020

In this economic environment, I don't see Vandy ponying up money to buy out Mason's contract and hiring another coach at market rates (unless Vandy can somehow set the market).  

Mason's time at Vanderbilt is a cautionary tale about the differences in job scope between a coordinator and a head coach.  Was he ready for it?  Who knows.  Has he figured it out yet?  I don't know, but if the win-loss record is any indicator...

(He was a great DC.  So was Fangio.)

RE: K.J. and the Pirate Episode 5 - Austroturf - 11-09-2020

(11-08-2020, 03:51 PM)JustAnotherFan Wrote:  
(11-08-2020, 02:38 PM)Austroturf Wrote:  Feeling very sorry for KJ at this time.  His brilliant debut in which he looked like a potential world-beater has now given way to him riding the pines in deference to a true freshman QB who is, himself, anything but a world-beater -- and all of this on a losing team.  Very unfortunate.  Cardinal transfers have not been overly lucky in their second lives.  So far, Dylan Powell seems to be having a good go at Indiana (3-0 and highly-ranked).  Otherwise....

Isn't Dylan Powell a backup? That's what I saw on their depth chart.

I'm not sure.  I watched the Indiana-Penn State game, and Powell seemed to be getting a lot of playing time.  That is pretty good on what is now a top ten team, with wins over Penn State, Michigan and Rutgers.
(11-08-2020, 03:27 PM)Spiny_Norman Wrote:  
(11-08-2020, 02:38 PM)Austroturf Wrote:  Feeling very sorry for KJ at this time.  His brilliant debut in which he looked like a potential world-beater has now given way to him riding the pines in deference to a true freshman QB who is, himself, anything but a world-beater -- and all of this on a losing team.  Very unfortunate.  Cardinal transfers have not been overly lucky in their second lives.  So far, Dylan Powell seems to be having a good go at Indiana (3-0 and highly-ranked).  Otherwise....

Since you brought it up, I thought I would check on the transfers (all data from ESPN.com)
Mike Williams has recorded 2 total tackles in 8 games at SMU
Donald Stewart has 5 receptions for 41 totals yards at Wake Forest
Jovan Swann has 4 total tackles in Indiana's 3 games
Obi Eboh had 3 tackles in UCLA's loss to Colorado yesterday
Trevor Speights transferred to Notre Dame but had to retire when he was not medically cleared to play

Thanks for this thorough overview.  I have also been thinking about other, earlier transfers who did not blossom on their second teams.  Keller Chryst couldn't turn his career around at Tennessee; Patrick Skov didn't make much of a mark at Georgia Tech; Barry Sanders was unable to accomplish much at his father's alma mater.  In short, I have yet to see a Cardinal transfer story that really worked out for the transferring athlete (i.e., like Gardner Minshew or Jalen Hurts or Jake Eason or Brennan Scarlett).  I thought KJ might be the first; but everything has gone downhill since that opening game.

RE: K.J. and the Pirate Episode 5 - fullmetal - 11-09-2020

By the numbers, it's unlikely for a grad transfer to make a significant impact at their new program.  For Stanford, I think it's unlikely that we would normally have a grad transfer so talented leave for another program.  The Gardner Minshews and Russell Wilsons of the world did not leave Stanford for their new programs.  I think most of our top players recognize the benefits of staying at Stanford for their fifth year.

I think SamuelMcF noted that most of our grad transfers have been guys who probably wouldn't have gotten a schollie or probably wouldn't have been major contributors in their fifth year anyway.  Shaw is probably okay with having those roster spots for promising recruits.

RE: K.J. and the Pirate Episode 5 - teejers1 - 11-09-2020

(11-09-2020, 03:29 AM)Austroturf Wrote:  Thanks for this thorough overview.  I have also been thinking about other, earlier transfers who did not blossom on their second teams.  Keller Chryst couldn't turn his career around at Tennessee; Patrick Skov didn't make much of a mark at Georgia Tech; Barry Sanders was unable to accomplish much at his father's alma mater.  In short, I have yet to see a Cardinal transfer story that really worked out for the transferring athlete (i.e., like Gardner Minshew or Jalen Hurts or Jake Eason or Brennan Scarlett).  I thought KJ might be the first; but everything has gone downhill since that opening game.

I'd argue that it already "worked out" for Costello - as he received "15 minutes" and dominated the college football sports weekend - something that never would have happened at Stanford.  Plus, he already has his degree, so is riding pine at Stanford better than playing some and riding some at Mississippi State?  Same for all the other folks playing at other schools, including one or two (at minimum) who are playing with far superior teams.  Also, Skov did well at GA Tech (particularly pre-injury, iirc).  

I think we too easily slip into our too-comfortable-stereotypes when we try and evaluate other kids' decisions.

RE: K.J. and the Pirate Episode 5 - Mick - 11-09-2020

(11-08-2020, 06:44 PM)donkey687 Wrote:  
(11-08-2020, 03:27 PM)Spiny_Norman Wrote:  
(11-08-2020, 02:38 PM)Austroturf Wrote:  Feeling very sorry for KJ at this time.  His brilliant debut in which he looked like a potential world-beater has now given way to him riding the pines in deference to a true freshman QB who is, himself, anything but a world-beater -- and all of this on a losing team.  Very unfortunate.  Cardinal transfers have not been overly lucky in their second lives.  So far, Dylan Powell seems to be having a good go at Indiana (3-0 and highly-ranked).  Otherwise....

Since you brought it up, I thought I would check on the transfers (all data from ESPN.com)
Mike Williams has recorded 2 total tackles in 8 games at SMU
Donald Stewart has 5 receptions for 41 totals yards at Wake Forest
Jovan Swann has 4 total tackles in Indiana's 3 games
Obi Eboh had 3 tackles in UCLA's loss to Colorado yesterday
Trevor Speights transferred to Notre Dame but had to retire when he was not medically cleared to play

Mike Williams opted out due to COVID and was sitting out. I didn't realize that he rejoined the team.
Devery Hamilton is starting for Duke at Right Tackle
Henry Hattis is starting at Right Guard for ASU but he may have gotten hurt as he wasn't in at end of USC game
Swann is listed as second string but plays regularly on a top 15 team.
Our OL seems to be good even without our fifth year former starters in Hattis and Hamilton, but our defense sure could use Williams, Swann and Eboh. None of them are superstars but they all would have been important parts of our defensive rotation and play positions where we are very very thin. Eboh was on the fence for transferring and I think Adeebo returning pushed him over the edge.

Perhaps the overall experience of departing 5th year players at other schools will pose a cautionary tale for future fifth year players who are considering leaving the program.  I don't think I am aware of a single player who had a decent-or-less career at Stanford starring for another university in their fifth year.

RE: K.J. and the Pirate Episode 5 - fullmetal - 11-09-2020

Speaking of Mississippi St., the SEC has just cancelled its game with Auburn due to covid cases.

[tweet]https://twitter.com/RossDellenger/status/1325890834726866944?s=20[/tweet]

RE: K.J. and the Pirate Episode 5 - needle - 11-09-2020

Casey Tucker left Stanford for ASU, where he earned honorable mention all-conference honors in 2018.

https://thesundevils.com/sports/football/roster/casey-tucker/6826

RE: K.J. and the Pirate Episode 5 - JohnR34231 - 11-10-2020

(11-08-2020, 10:45 PM)fullmetal Wrote:  In this economic environment, I don't see Vandy ponying up money to buy out Mason's contract and hiring another coach at market rates (unless Vandy can somehow set the market).  

Mason's time at Vanderbilt is a cautionary tale about the differences in job scope between a coordinator and a head coach.  Was he ready for it?  Who knows.  Has he figured it out yet?  I don't know, but if the win-loss record is any indicator...

(He was a great DC.  So was Fangio.)

Of course, Vanderbilt is not the easiest place in college football to coach. In the last thirty years, they have had all of three winning seasons.
Mason at least came close a couple of times.

RE: K.J. and the Pirate Episode 5 - JustAnotherFan - 11-10-2020

Derek Mason makes $3.4 million according to this article: https://www.si.com/college/vanderbilt/football/vanderbilt-and-derek-mason-how-secure-is-his-position

Mason's record is now 27-52 with a record of 10-43 against SEC teams.

It could be worse for Mason, the SEC could have a nine game schedule (in non-pandemic years).

RE: K.J. and the Pirate Episode 5 - JohnR34231 - 11-10-2020

(11-10-2020, 05:23 AM)JustAnotherFan Wrote:  Derek Mason makes $3.4 million according to this article: https://www.si.com/college/vanderbilt/football/vanderbilt-and-derek-mason-how-secure-is-his-position

Mason's record is now 27-52 with a record of 10-43 against SEC teams.

It could be worse for Mason, the SEC could have a nine game schedule (in non-pandemic years).

James Franklin is the one coach who has recently had some success at Vandy.
The way he is doing at Penn State this year, if they wait around a while they might be able to get him back.