The CardBoard
Undrafteds - Printable Version

+- The CardBoard (https://thecardboard.org/board)
+-- Forum: C-House! (https://thecardboard.org/board/forumdisplay.php?fid=4)
+--- Forum: The CARDboard (https://thecardboard.org/board/forumdisplay.php?fid=5)
+--- Thread: Undrafteds (/showthread.php?tid=21911)

Pages: 1 2 3


RE: Undrafteds - fullmetal - 05-05-2021

Looking back on the Rosen situation, it's a little surprising (but not too much) that Shaw didn't think he could coach a little more maturity into Rosen.  I certainly could have used a lot more maturity as an 18 yr old freshman, and given time and proper environment, maybe Rosen would have learned to channel his arrogant energy into more productive channels.  Then again, some kids also don't ever learn.  (I remember Rosen and his hot tub antics.)


RE: Undrafteds - Mick - 05-05-2021

Jim Mora Jr. on why Josh Rosen is on his fourth NFL team in just over two years.  Pretty interesting, and not remotely surprising:



Gut feel? He speaks well and highly of Rosen, and with a degree of candor, but I think there's some real disappointment behind Mora's comments about Rosen.


RE: Undrafteds - JohnR34231 - 05-06-2021

(05-05-2021, 10:52 PM)Mick Wrote:  Jim Mora Jr. on why Josh Rosen is on his fourth NFL team in just over two years.  Pretty interesting, and not remotely surprising:



Gut feel?  He speaks well and highly of Rosen, and with a degree of candor, but I think there's some real disappointment behind Mora's comments about Rosen.

The book on Josh seems to be he always thinks he is the smartest guy in the room and isn't shy about letting people know that. He knows how to play his position better than anyone else. I'm sure that drives coaches crazy. Mora thinks Josh has all the tools to be great, but just needs an attitude adjustment. Unfortunately he seems incapable of that.


RE: Undrafteds - Mick - 05-06-2021

In his only full season (2018) Rosen ranked 33 of 33 quarterbacks in QBR.  Didn't play last year, played negligibly in 2019.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2018/passing.htm#passing::qbr
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/R/RoseJo01.htm


RE: Undrafteds - Goose - 05-06-2021

(05-05-2021, 09:16 PM)fullmetal Wrote:  Looking back on the Rosen situation, it's a little surprising (but not too much) that Shaw didn't think he could coach a little more maturity into Rosen.  I certainly could have used a lot more maturity as an 18 yr old freshman, and given time and proper environment, maybe Rosen would have learned to channel his arrogant energy into more productive channels.  Then again, some kids also don't ever learn.  (I remember Rosen and his hot tub antics.)
I repeat this over and over. For some reason, it never seems to "take". Rosen was dead set that he was going to start as a freshman. That was a requirement for him to get to the NFL as quickly as possible. Shaw wouldn't guarantee that. End of story. There are undoubtedly other factors that may have led Shaw not to offer, but the fact is Shaw wouldn't offer a guaranteed starting position as a freshman.  Rosen made it clear that was a disqualifying issue. No point in Shaw making an offer that won't be accepted, dream school or not.
Mora did make such a guarantee, Rosen enrolled early at UCLA (which he could not have done have done at Stanford) and started as a freshman. Rosen has stated several times that starting as a freshman was a requirement for him. This is not a secret.


RE: Undrafteds - Mick - 05-06-2021

(05-06-2021, 07:56 AM)Goose Wrote:  I repeat this over and over. For some reason, it never seems to "take". Rosen was dead set that he was going to start as a freshman. That was a requirement for him to get to the NFL as quickly as possible. Shaw wouldn't guarantee that. End of story. There are undoubtedly other factors that may have led Shaw not to offer, but the fact is Shaw wouldn't offer a guaranteed starting position as a freshman.  Rosen made it clear that was a disqualifying issue. No point in Shaw making an offer that won't be accepted, dream school or not.
Mora did make such a guarantee, Rosen enrolled early at UCLA (which he could not have done have done at Stanford) and started as a freshman. Rosen has stated several times that starting as a freshman was a requirement for him. This is not a secret.

Rosen did indeed start all 13 games as a frosh.  Here's the language from his profile:

Starter in all 13 games … Became first Bruin true freshman to start a season-opener at quarterback … Set numerous school marks - most consecutive passing attempts without an interception (245); most passes attempted in a game (57 v. Wash. St.); most passing yards by a true freshman in a game (399 v. Cal); most passing yards in a season by a true freshman (3,670); most 300-yard passing games in a season (tied-6); most touchdown passes thrown by a true freshman (23); most touchdown passes thrown by a true freshman in a game (3-tied); longest pass play by a true freshman (70 yds); most completions in a game (34 v. Cal); most passing attempts in a season (487); most passing yards per game in a season by a true freshman (282.3) … Threw for 300-yards in games v. Nebraska (319), Wash. St. (340), Oregon St. (333), Cal (399), Stanford (326) and Virginia (351) … Had three scoring passes in games against Nebraska, Cal, Stanford and Virginia … His 410 yards of total offense v. Washington State ranked No. 9 on all-time school list … The Sporting News' Freshman of the Year … USA Today 1st team Freshman All-America selection … The Sporting News' 1st team Freshman All-America selection … FWAA 1st team Freshman All-America selection … Pac-12 Conference Offensive Freshman of the Year (coaches) … Pac-12 Newcomer of the Year (AP) … Honored in New York after being selected as one of five recipients of the 2015 NFF National HS Scholar-Athlete award … Presented John Boncheff, Jr. Memorial Award for Rookie of the Year and the Captain Don Brown Memorial Award for Most Improved Player at the annual team banquet … Enrolled in January of 2015 and participated in spring practice.


RE: Undrafteds - Papa John - 05-07-2021

Josh Rosen's UCLA Bruins versus Stanford:

2015--Stanford 56, UCLA 35
2016--Stanford 22, UCLA 13
2017--Stanford 58, UCLA 34

In 2015, Josh Rosen's QBR was 134.3. Kevin Hogan's was 171.0. No way in hell I bench 5th-year Hogan for first year Rosen.
In 2016, Rosen's QBR was 138.9. Ryan Burns' was 121.2. Yes, Rosen was much better than Burns, but only marginally better than Keller Chryst, who replaced Burns later in the year and produced a QBR of 133.8.
In 2017, Rosen's QBR was 147.0. KJ Costello's was 139.5 (KJ played the most snaps versus the Bruins in his breakout game and for the rest of the season).

In terms of Rosen's QBR season-by-season versus Pac-12 QBs:
2015: 5th, behind Hogan, Goff, Adams Jr, Solomon
2016: 8th, behind Darnold, Browning, Dawkins, Herbert, Falk, Webb, Liufau
2017: 5th, behind Tate, Herbert, Darnold, Browning

Maybe Mora Jr. was bad at developing QBs or maybe Rosen wouldn't have been "all that" at Stanford.

As an aside, Andrew Luck's 2010 QBR is the highest since 2004 amongst Pac-10/12 QBs and 6th amongst all NCAA FBS QBs.


RE: Undrafteds - BostonCard - 05-07-2021

Rosen was injured for most of 2016.

BC


RE: Undrafteds - SamuelMcF - 05-07-2021

Also FWIW, Mora was jaw-droppingly good at underutilizing the talent on his roster. In his final 3 seasons UCLA went 17-19/10-16 in conference (10-11 in conference with Rosen) despite having EIGHTEEN players drafted, including 4 first-rounders, across nearly every position.


RE: Undrafteds - Mick - 05-07-2021

(05-07-2021, 10:05 AM)Papa John Wrote:  In 2015, Josh Rosen's QBR was 134.3. Kevin Hogan's was 171.0. No way in hell I bench 5th-year Hogan for first year Rosen.

So why was Rosen the #10 overall pick in the NFL draft and Hogan was the #162 pick in the fifth round?


RE: Undrafteds - fullmetal - 05-07-2021

(05-05-2021, 10:52 PM)Mick Wrote:  Jim Mora Jr. on why Josh Rosen is on his fourth NFL team in just over two years.  Pretty interesting, and not remotely surprising:



Gut feel?  He speaks well and highly of Rosen, and with a degree of candor, but I think there's some real disappointment behind Mora's comments about Rosen.

Mora has some really key insights into what makes a mature adult in there.  I did not expect that video to be so good.


RE: Undrafteds - Papa John - 05-07-2021

(05-07-2021, 12:09 PM)Mick Wrote:  
(05-07-2021, 10:05 AM)Papa John Wrote:  In 2015, Josh Rosen's QBR was 134.3. Kevin Hogan's was 171.0. No way in hell I bench 5th-year Hogan for first year Rosen.

So why was Rosen the #10 overall pick in the NFL draft and Hogan was the #162 pick in the fifth round?

Good question! But my comparison on Rosen and Hogan was for 2015 only. Would JR have been drafted in the first round after his freshman year (if he had been eligible)?

More data points on Rosen. All-conference honors:
2015: none (1st-team QB Falk, 2nd-team QB Hogan)
2016: none (as BC pointed out, JR was injured for much of 2016, although his stats when he did play were hardly spectacular)
2017: 2nd-team QB (1st-team Darnold)

In terms of conference honors, Rosen was no more decorated than Hogan. Unless you look at preseason awards. Athlon picked Rosen for first-team Pac-12 QB before the 2016 season and fourth-team before the 2017 season. Was Rosen better than Burns, Chryst and Costello? Sure, but I would point out that his UCLA teams lost to all three (Burns in 2016, Chryst/Burns/Costello in 2017).

Maybe Rosen was drafted on criteria other than results. I've looked up several different data-driven FBS QB ratings for 2017 and JR isn't in the top 10 for any of them.

I don't follow the NFL--and certainly not the draft--closely enough, so I'll let someone more informed explain why Arizona drafted JR #10. Maybe other rating services like PFF, to which I do not subscribe, loved him.


RE: Undrafteds - Mick - 05-07-2021

Incidentally, Josh Rosen was "pissed" and "really angry" that he fell outside the top three to the #10 overall pick.  Loooooooved his post-draft quote, which says so very much about Josh Rosen: "There were nine mistakes ahead of me."

https://www.espn.com/nfl/draft2018/story/_/id/23329508/josh-rosen-pissed-fell-arizona-cardinals-10th-pick-says-there-were-nine-mistakes-ahead-me

I understand why Hogan was selected in the fifth round. For the life of me, I don't understand why Rosen was selected so high, even with Mayfield, Allen and Darnold selected ahead of him.  I know Rival and Scout made him the #1 QB in the country.  He has the arm and the talent.  Maybe he's just lacking...everything else.


RE: Undrafteds - BostonCard - 05-07-2021

(05-07-2021, 01:46 PM)Mick Wrote:  Incidentally, Josh Rosen was "pissed" and "really angry" that he fell outside the top three to the #10 overall pick.  Loooooooved his post-draft quote, which says so very much about Josh Rosen: "There were nine mistakes ahead of me."



https://www.espn.com/nfl/draft2018/story/_/id/23329508/josh-rosen-pissed-fell-arizona-cardinals-10th-pick-says-there-were-nine-mistakes-ahead-me



I understand why Hogan was selected in the fifth round. For the life of me, I don't understand why Rosen was selected so high, even with Mayfield, Allen and Darnold selected ahead of him.  I know Rival and Scout made him the #1 QB in the country.  He has the arm and the talent.  Maybe he's just lacking...everything else.

The NFL loved his arm and talent.  He also had a reputation for being smart.  But there is a difference between intelligence and wisdom, and he was lacking in the latter.

BC


RE: Undrafteds - Mick - 05-07-2021

I wonder if he'll get into a game with the 49ers.  Jimmy G is 30 this year.  So let's assume Garoppolo plays less than 1/2 the games.  That's my assumption, anyway.  Lance will get into games, both in mop-up action and when Jimmy G. needs to sit.

Seems like Rosen only gets in if both Lance and JG are injured.

I wonder if Shanahan will have a serious conversation with Rosen, or he'll just dismiss it as not worth his time, trouble, effort or energy?


RE: Undrafteds - martyup - 05-08-2021

I wonder if Rosen will ever realize that his attitude is his problem.  I remember when he was a freshman at UCLA some were saying that his attitude is what made him so successful.  That theory didn't age well.