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RE: student athlete early enrollment pilot - chrisk - 06-11-2021

(06-11-2021, 03:24 PM)Goose Wrote:  
(06-11-2021, 03:01 PM)BobK Wrote:  So about 40-50 non athletes have been enrolling for summer school the past 12 years ???
No idea, but if they want to do so and are admitted I would expect the University would have a hard time saying no given that they allow athletes to enroll early in summer classes. However, as I am sure you are aware lots of high school students actually attend Stanford and take classes that count for college credit during the summer even though they are not admitted to Stanford. So, in effect, the answer is yes, you can take classes during the summer before you actually start school. It may be a technicality whether you are doing so as an admitted student or a summer student.

There is also the issue that is faced by the athletes as well, namely that what is available in the summer is limited, and if you want to take a particular class it may not be offered or it may fill up before you can get in. That does happen, and then you are stuck with with you can get.

This summer is a regular quarter for freshman and sophomores, so it won’t be limited in the way Summer Session is.

In winter and spring, there are a limited number of dorm rooms, so that is a limiting factor on the number of enrollees.

At Ohio State in years gone by, they would stagger the admission of freshman throughout the year, which was accommodated by the high attrition rate.

This year, Stanford enrollees are attending a regular 10-week quarter that goes through the end of August. Non-Stanford enrollees will be attending the usual “Summer Session”, which is 8 weeks, ending in mid-August.


RE: student athlete early enrollment pilot - VB Card - 06-11-2021

(06-11-2021, 03:24 PM)Goose Wrote:  
(06-11-2021, 03:01 PM)BobK Wrote:  So about 40-50 non athletes have been enrolling for summer school the past 12 years ???
No idea, but if they want to do so and are admitted I would expect the University would have a hard time saying no given that they allow athletes to enroll early in summer classes. However, as I am sure you are aware lots of high school students actually attend Stanford and take classes that count for college credit during the summer even though they are not admitted to Stanford. So, in effect, the answer is yes, you can take classes during the summer before you actually start school. It may be a technicality whether you are doing so as an admitted student or a summer student.

There is also the issue that is faced by the athletes as well, namely that what is available in the summer is limited, and if you want to take a particular class it may not be offered or it may fill up before you can get in. That does happen, and then you are stuck with with you can get.
 

Actually, prospective freshmen (non-athletes) cannot take classes at Stanford during the summer before their freshman year. The only exceptions are those who choose to take part in special 4 week courses right before the school-year starts, and those are typically only open to FLI students.


RE: student athlete early enrollment pilot - Snorlax94 - 06-11-2021

(06-11-2021, 11:57 AM)82lsju Wrote:  
(06-11-2021, 11:09 AM)BostonCard Wrote:  
(06-11-2021, 09:16 AM)SamuelMcF Wrote:  27/52 of our offered recruits last year who went elsewhere enrolled early. That's incredibly significant. I know for a fact we've lost out on studs for this reason.

And I've been ok with that.  Changing a policy because "we've lost out on studs for this reason" is not a good reason to change the policy.

I think we are going to face a reckoning in the next ten years about Stanford's identity.

BC

if they are going to allow early enrollment it should be open to all not just athletes.

I would argue that each type of student can have unique needs, and Stanford often creates accommodations so students can pursue their passions and realize their dreams.

For example, members of Latter Day Saints can defer enrollment for two years if they are going on missions. I don’t think this accommodation compromisea the university — it’s thoughtful and helps all different kinds of people join the Stanford community.

In order to realize their dreams, it’s gotten to the point that football student athletes may need to start early. I think that’s fine. It doesn’t mean Stanford needs to offer this to absolutely everyone (in fact I think it’d be a mess and would favor the wealthy). I don’t think anyone can defer for two years if they are not going on a mission, but I imagine if people had a unique need they could petition.

The key issue is that this accommodation is made to help student athletes pursue their field of interest and possibly enhance their chances at a professional career. The key is that the intention is NOT to create a separate class of student. That is what I’d be opposed to, and this is I think a major difference between Stanford student-athletes and athletes at many other colleges. The great thing about Stanford student athletes is that they understand they are coming to be “just one of the students” and they want that, and I don’t think early enrollment — when needed — necessarily compromises or alters that.


RE: student athlete early enrollment pilot - Goose - 06-11-2021

(06-11-2021, 07:51 PM)Snorlax94 Wrote:  The key is that the intention is NOT to create a separate class of student. That is what I’d be opposed to, and this is I think a major difference between Stanford student-athletes and athletes at many other colleges. The great thing about Stanford student athletes is that they understand they are coming to be “just one of the students” and they want that, and I don’t think early enrollment — when needed — necessarily compromises or alters that.
I agree that is the key to preserving the idea there athletes are not a class apart. IMHO to do so requires the same options to be available to all students. Realistically, most students don't want to enter Stanford winter quarter of their senior year in high school. They also don't want to go to summer school the summer before their "normal" freshman year at Stanford. However, if athletes who wish to and have actually graduated from high school are able to do these things under appropriate conditions, these same advantages must be available to non-athletes with similar appropriate conditions. If an LDS student is granted a leave to go on a mission, then you have to grant similar leave to those who want to join some NGO working with the poor etc. I don't think doing so is actually a problem, but similar cases need to be handled similarly.

Summer school for athletes before their freshman year is problematic for me. Obviously for fall sports it is critical to get going as soon as possible. However, if athletes automatically have a spot in summer school (for what is normally a short quarter, not like this year) and other entering freshman do not have the option even if they have good reason to do so, there is a problem. It can be argued that this summer school is actually for the Universities benefit, and only incidentally for the athlete's benefit. Despite that, the path for non-athletes can't be manifestly more difficult than it is for athletes. If it is, then we do have two different classes of student, and that's a problem. Fortunately, very few non-athletes will want to do this, but for those who do, it has to available on the same basis.


RE: student athlete early enrollment pilot - BostonCard - 06-11-2021

Anyone can request a deferral.

https://admit.stanford.edu/next-steps/

Quote:If you plan to attend Stanford, but wish to request a deferral of your enrollment, submit your request through the Stanford Admission Response form in your Stanford portal.

It doesn't mean it will be granted.  Last year was obviously a special case, but 376 students deferred their enrollment (and obviously not all of them were LDS).

BC


RE: student athlete early enrollment pilot - akiddoc - 06-11-2021

(06-11-2021, 02:14 PM)Goose Wrote:  
(06-11-2021, 11:57 AM)82lsju Wrote:  
(06-11-2021, 11:09 AM)BostonCard Wrote:  
(06-11-2021, 09:16 AM)SamuelMcF Wrote:  27/52 of our offered recruits last year who went elsewhere enrolled early. That's incredibly significant. I know for a fact we've lost out on studs for this reason.

And I've been ok with that.  Changing a policy because "we've lost out on studs for this reason" is not a good reason to change the policy.

I think we are going to face a reckoning in the next ten years about Stanford's identity.

BC

if they are going to allow early enrollment it should be open to all not just athletes.
I believe that this must be the case, by rule. Athletes cannot receive preferential treatment unrelated to their actual athletic needs. Early enrollment is an academic, not athletic issue. I am sure the NCAA would see it that way, and even if they don't, somebody would sue the university over it, I'm sure. Just another layer in the can of worms.

This will be considered directly related to athletic needs. Just like it is at every other school that does it.


RE: student athlete early enrollment pilot - Goose - 06-11-2021

(06-11-2021, 09:18 PM)akiddoc Wrote:  This will be considered directly related to athletic needs. Just like it is at every other school that does it.

I am sure that would be the argument, but whose athletic "needs"? The Universities or the students? You can make all kinds of arguments about special treatment "needs" for athletes. Many of them are not successful when evaluated/litigated. I think the main reason that the "early admit" argument hasn't been an issue is that most large state universities allow early admits to "everyone", not just athletes. Stanford's situation will be different, because up to now freshman year was "lock step" for everybody.  I suspect that the answer will be some general early admit program available to all that few non-athletes apply for. But I think it has to be there.


RE: student athlete early enrollment pilot - BostonCard - 06-11-2021

Also, it is not an athletic need.  Players don’t need to enroll early; they do so because they believe it will give them an advantage.  Honestly, the NCAA should disallow the practice, but they won’t.

BC


RE: student athlete early enrollment pilot - paloalto - 06-12-2021

According to the article this is a three year pilot program with limited participation:

"The committee recommended that the pilot program be limited to 15 students per year."

My guess is the football coach will choose the 15 student/athletes although it isn't addressed in the article. 

What will be the metrics for success or failure?  The 15 students become professional football players?  They graduate or  graduate early?  A coveted recruit says he came to Stanford because he can start school early?

I can imagine all varsity coaches at Stanford would be in favor of this policy. I honestly am surprised the faculty senate is down with it.


RE: student athlete early enrollment pilot - fullmetal - 06-12-2021

15 students per year sounds like that's the class size for one spring quarter, first-quarter freshman humanities class.  I wonder if the second course in that series would be offered during the summer.


RE: student athlete early enrollment pilot - Goose - 06-12-2021

(06-12-2021, 05:34 AM)paloalto Wrote:  According to the article this is a three year pilot program with limited participation:

"The committee recommended that the pilot program be limited to 15 students per year."

My guess is the football coach will choose the 15 student/athletes although it isn't addressed in the article. 

What will be the metrics for success or failure?  The 15 students become professional football players?  They graduate or  graduate early?  A coveted recruit says he came to Stanford because he can start school early?

I can imagine all varsity coaches at Stanford would be in favor of this policy.  I honestly am surprised the faculty senate is down with it.
If it is restricted to athletes, I am not "down with it". It may be there are no applicants who aren't athletes, in which case having no "diversity" is not avoidable, but having a "pilot program" that is designed to exclude non-athletes is totally improper IMHO.

The "metrics" question is a good one. Perhaps one would have to wait 40 years to really know. Right now, Stanford Housing is changing so many things in the "on-campus" experience that all comparisons to past performance will be conflated by those changes. IMHO you probably will be hard put to "measure" the effects of early admission. That will be viewed as a positive, because it can be used to justify any given decision.


RE: student athlete early enrollment pilot - Papa John - 06-13-2021

Agree with Goose. This is a good idea that should also be available to non-athlete early admits.