Men's and Women's Gymnastics - Printable Version
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Men's and Women's Gymnastics - akiddoc - 07-24-2021
Stanford gymnast Brody Malone placed 11th in the first round and makes the all around finals (top 24). Top scorer on the USA team. He also made an event final (top 8) by placing 4th in the horizontal bar. He has a chance for a medal in H bar, although it is going to be very, very tough.
The USA came in 4th in the prelims of the team competition. They are not going to medal though. Japan, China, and ROC are just too far ahead in talent, skill and depth. The US and the UK will fight it out for 4th.
The USA men's coach is Thom Glielmi, the Stanford head coach.
RE: Men's Gymnastics - akiddoc - 07-25-2021
(07-24-2021, 01:48 PM)akiddoc Wrote: Stanford gymnast Brody Malone placed 11th in the first round and makes the all around finals (top 24). Top scorer on the USA team. He also made an event final (top 8) by placing 4th in the horizontal bar. He has a chance for a medal in H bar, although it is going to be very, very tough.
The USA came in 4th in the prelims of the team competition. They are not going to medal though. Japan, China, and ROC are just too far ahead in talent, skill and depth. The US and the UK will fight it out for 4th.
The USA men's coach is Thom Glielmi, the Stanford head coach.
The men's team finals are at 3 AM Monday PDT.
RE: Men's Gymnastics - rogpodge - 07-25-2021
Based on qualifying scores, the Japanese, Chinese, and Russians were at the top, tightly clustered, then a five point drop to the US / UK, then another drop to the next tier. There's a Russian gymnast who tore his Achilles in APRIL, and is competing.
For the women, the US wasn't as dominant. Not sure if it's just a matter of some tweaks, but since expectations are so high, it looks like a bad performance.
RE: Men's Gymnastics - akiddoc - 07-25-2021
(07-25-2021, 05:49 PM)rogpodge Wrote: Based on qualifying scores, the Japanese, Chinese, and Russians were at the top, tightly clustered, then a five point drop to the US / UK, then another drop to the next tier. There's a Russian gymnast who tore his Achilles in APRIL, and is competing.
For the women, the US wasn't as dominant. Not sure if it's just a matter of some tweaks, but since expectations are so high, it looks like a bad performance.
That was a cluster f*** for the US women. They should have been 5 points clear of the Russians. Biles alone lost 3 points out of pure sloppiness and lack of focus. Chiles was terrible as well. Good thing Lee is steady as a rock.
Biles gets away with a lot of sloppy gymnastics because she has the most skills in the history of the sport, but that was the worst meet I can remember in her career. If she corrects that stuff, the USA wins the gold. Chiles is a mess, possibly because her mother is about to go to prison. I would only put her on the events that are absolutely safe for her in the finals. All scores count in the finals. Three competitors in each event. She's safe on vault.
RE: Men's Gymnastics - 82lsju - 07-26-2021
US men finish 5th, medals go to
- Russia
- Japan
- China
RE: Men's Gymnastics - ColoradoTree - 07-26-2021
(07-25-2021, 10:36 PM)akiddoc Wrote:(07-25-2021, 05:49 PM)rogpodge Wrote: Based on qualifying scores, the Japanese, Chinese, and Russians were at the top, tightly clustered, then a five point drop to the US / UK, then another drop to the next tier. There's a Russian gymnast who tore his Achilles in APRIL, and is competing.
For the women, the US wasn't as dominant. Not sure if it's just a matter of some tweaks, but since expectations are so high, it looks like a bad performance.
That was a cluster f*** for the US women. They should have been 5 points clear of the Russians. Biles alone lost 3 points out of pure sloppiness and lack of focus. Chiles was terrible as well. Good thing Lee is steady as a rock.
Biles gets away with a lot of sloppy gymnastics because she has the most skills in the history of the sport, but that was the worst meet I can remember in her career. If she corrects that stuff, the USA wins the gold. Chiles is a mess, possibly because her mother is about to go to prison. I would only put her on the events that are absolutely safe for her in the finals. All scores count in the finals. Three competitors in each event. She's safe on vault.
Certainly, Biles wasn't as sharp as she could be--that massive step out of bounds on floor, the dismount on beam (after what was otherwise a great routine)--but fundamentally, when you qualify first for the all-around and you qualify for all four event finals, the blame for team performance really ought to lie elsewhere. I get that she can and is expected to do better, but my goodness, McCallum didn't look nearly good enough and Chiles was just dreadful (fine enough on vault and floor, but a 12.866 on bars and a 11.566 on beam? Goodness).
When we need Biles to be otherworldly rather than merely being the best on the floor, it's hard to argue we're the best team in the world. We should still win team gold if things get tightened up in team finals, but it'll be on Simone's back. That lack of depth is concerning once Biles moves on from Olympic gymnastics.
Jade Carey was great. If she's on the team rather than Chiles, then we make up that gap with Russia in qualifying and we're tied going into finals. She was 0.567 better on floor, 0.466 better on vault, a couple points better on bars (but just 0.033 better than the third score), and over a point better on beam (but her score would still have been fourth in qualifying). That's 1.067 points that would've been added to the total, exactly what we were behind Russia. But then again, you wouldn't have picked Carey over Chiles based on recent past results, either.
You have to hope, though, that Chiles--who'd been so, so consistent--turns it around after that bout of nerves.
Hoping the bright lights push Biles to return to her usual sparkling form. Her second day of Trials was pretty pedestrian (she fell off the beam!), and this is now two meets in a row with a pretty off day.
akiddoc, what three would you put up for the women in each event? If we chalk Chiles' performance up to nerves and expect her to bounce right back, then you'd go like this, presumably:
Floor: Biles, Chiles, McCallum/Lee
Vault: Biles, Chiles, McCallum
Uneven Bars: Lee, Biles, Chiles
Balance Beam: Biles, Lee, Chiles
But if we think she's likely to repeat those mistakes?
Floor: Biles, Chiles, McCallum/Lee
Vault: Biles, Chiles, McCallum
Uneven Bars: Lee, Biles, McCallum
Balance Beam: Biles, Lee, McCallum
That takes so many potential points off the table, though. Sure, just Simone tightening things up is enough to get us there, but if we're planning on counting McCallum's scores in each event, then we're lowering our ceiling, too.
(Apologies for the thread drift....)
RE: Men's Gymnastics - akiddoc - 07-26-2021
(07-26-2021, 09:03 AM)ColoradoTree Wrote:(07-25-2021, 10:36 PM)akiddoc Wrote:(07-25-2021, 05:49 PM)rogpodge Wrote: Based on qualifying scores, the Japanese, Chinese, and Russians were at the top, tightly clustered, then a five point drop to the US / UK, then another drop to the next tier. There's a Russian gymnast who tore his Achilles in APRIL, and is competing.
For the women, the US wasn't as dominant. Not sure if it's just a matter of some tweaks, but since expectations are so high, it looks like a bad performance.
That was a cluster f*** for the US women. They should have been 5 points clear of the Russians. Biles alone lost 3 points out of pure sloppiness and lack of focus. Chiles was terrible as well. Good thing Lee is steady as a rock.
Biles gets away with a lot of sloppy gymnastics because she has the most skills in the history of the sport, but that was the worst meet I can remember in her career. If she corrects that stuff, the USA wins the gold. Chiles is a mess, possibly because her mother is about to go to prison. I would only put her on the events that are absolutely safe for her in the finals. All scores count in the finals. Three competitors in each event. She's safe on vault.
Certainly, Biles wasn't as sharp as she could be--that massive step out of bounds on floor, the dismount on beam (after what was otherwise a great routine)--but fundamentally, when you qualify first for the all-around and you qualify for all four event finals, the blame for team performance really ought to lie elsewhere. I get that she can and is expected to do better, but my goodness, McCallum didn't look nearly good enough and Chiles was just dreadful (fine enough on vault and floor, but a 12.866 on bars and a 11.566 on beam? Goodness).
When we need Biles to be otherworldly rather than merely being the best on the floor, it's hard to argue we're the best team in the world. We should still win team gold if things get tightened up in team finals, but it'll be on Simone's back. That lack of depth is concerning once Biles moves on from Olympic gymnastics.
Jade Carey was great. If she's on the team rather than Chiles, then we make up that gap with Russia in qualifying and we're tied going into finals. She was 0.567 better on floor, 0.466 better on vault, a couple points better on bars (but just 0.033 better than the third score), and over a point better on beam (but her score would still have been fourth in qualifying). That's 1.067 points that would've been added to the total, exactly what we were behind Russia. But then again, you wouldn't have picked Carey over Chiles based on recent past results, either.
You have to hope, though, that Chiles--who'd been so, so consistent--turns it around after that bout of nerves.
Hoping the bright lights push Biles to return to her usual sparkling form. Her second day of Trials was pretty pedestrian (she fell off the beam!), and this is now two meets in a row with a pretty off day.
akiddoc, what three would you put up for the women in each event? If we chalk Chiles' performance up to nerves and expect her to bounce right back, then you'd go like this, presumably:
Floor: Biles, Chiles, McCallum/Lee
Vault: Biles, Chiles, McCallum
Uneven Bars: Lee, Biles, Chiles
Balance Beam: Biles, Lee, Chiles
But if we think she's likely to repeat those mistakes?
Floor: Biles, Chiles, McCallum/Lee
Vault: Biles, Chiles, McCallum
Uneven Bars: Lee, Biles, McCallum
Balance Beam: Biles, Lee, McCallum
That takes so many potential points off the table, though. Sure, just Simone tightening things up is enough to get us there, but if we're planning on counting McCallum's scores in each event, then we're lowering our ceiling, too.
(Apologies for the thread drift....)
I'm glad I don't have to make that decision.
RE: Men's Gymnastics - DC 86 - 07-26-2021
(07-26-2021, 11:09 PM)akiddoc Wrote:(07-26-2021, 09:03 AM)ColoradoTree Wrote:(07-25-2021, 10:36 PM)akiddoc Wrote:(07-25-2021, 05:49 PM)rogpodge Wrote: Based on qualifying scores, the Japanese, Chinese, and Russians were at the top, tightly clustered, then a five point drop to the US / UK, then another drop to the next tier. There's a Russian gymnast who tore his Achilles in APRIL, and is competing.
For the women, the US wasn't as dominant. Not sure if it's just a matter of some tweaks, but since expectations are so high, it looks like a bad performance.
That was a cluster f*** for the US women. They should have been 5 points clear of the Russians. Biles alone lost 3 points out of pure sloppiness and lack of focus. Chiles was terrible as well. Good thing Lee is steady as a rock.
Biles gets away with a lot of sloppy gymnastics because she has the most skills in the history of the sport, but that was the worst meet I can remember in her career. If she corrects that stuff, the USA wins the gold. Chiles is a mess, possibly because her mother is about to go to prison. I would only put her on the events that are absolutely safe for her in the finals. All scores count in the finals. Three competitors in each event. She's safe on vault.
Certainly, Biles wasn't as sharp as she could be--that massive step out of bounds on floor, the dismount on beam (after what was otherwise a great routine)--but fundamentally, when you qualify first for the all-around and you qualify for all four event finals, the blame for team performance really ought to lie elsewhere. I get that she can and is expected to do better, but my goodness, McCallum didn't look nearly good enough and Chiles was just dreadful (fine enough on vault and floor, but a 12.866 on bars and a 11.566 on beam? Goodness).
When we need Biles to be otherworldly rather than merely being the best on the floor, it's hard to argue we're the best team in the world. We should still win team gold if things get tightened up in team finals, but it'll be on Simone's back. That lack of depth is concerning once Biles moves on from Olympic gymnastics.
Jade Carey was great. If she's on the team rather than Chiles, then we make up that gap with Russia in qualifying and we're tied going into finals. She was 0.567 better on floor, 0.466 better on vault, a couple points better on bars (but just 0.033 better than the third score), and over a point better on beam (but her score would still have been fourth in qualifying). That's 1.067 points that would've been added to the total, exactly what we were behind Russia. But then again, you wouldn't have picked Carey over Chiles based on recent past results, either.
You have to hope, though, that Chiles--who'd been so, so consistent--turns it around after that bout of nerves.
Hoping the bright lights push Biles to return to her usual sparkling form. Her second day of Trials was pretty pedestrian (she fell off the beam!), and this is now two meets in a row with a pretty off day.
akiddoc, what three would you put up for the women in each event? If we chalk Chiles' performance up to nerves and expect her to bounce right back, then you'd go like this, presumably:
Floor: Biles, Chiles, McCallum/Lee
Vault: Biles, Chiles, McCallum
Uneven Bars: Lee, Biles, Chiles
Balance Beam: Biles, Lee, Chiles
But if we think she's likely to repeat those mistakes?
Floor: Biles, Chiles, McCallum/Lee
Vault: Biles, Chiles, McCallum
Uneven Bars: Lee, Biles, McCallum
Balance Beam: Biles, Lee, McCallum
That takes so many potential points off the table, though. Sure, just Simone tightening things up is enough to get us there, but if we're planning on counting McCallum's scores in each event, then we're lowering our ceiling, too.
(Apologies for the thread drift....)
I'm glad I don't have to make that decision.
Going to be Biles and McCallum in all four, Chiles on floor and vault, Lee on beam and uneven bars.
RE: Men's Gymnastics - 82lsju - 07-27-2021
SPOILER ALERT - don't click on the link if you don't want to know the outcome of women's gymnastics
https://www.espn.com/olympics/story/_/id/31890675/olympic-women-gymnastics-live-updates-simone-biles-team-usa-compete-team-finals
RE: Men's Gymnastics - Phogge - 07-27-2021
When has the "best ever" in a discipline walked out on their team in the middle of a competition?
RE: Men's Gymnastics - BobK - 07-27-2021
Harsh Phogge. Harsh
RE: Men's Gymnastics - BostonCard - 07-27-2021
(07-27-2021, 01:11 PM)Phogge Wrote: When has the "best ever" in a discipline walked out on their team in the middle of a competition?
It's about time we start viewing mental health injuries in the same vein as we view physical injuries. If Biles had suffered an ankle sprain that forced her out of the finals, no one would question whether she was the "best ever".
BC
RE: Men's Gymnastics - BobK - 07-27-2021
A couple of years ago a Stanford Athlete attempted suicide. They lived thankfully.
RE: Men's Gymnastics - BostonCard - 07-27-2021
Sadly, a few Stanford-connected athletes have committed suicide:
https://www.npr.org/2019/03/11/702206945/olympic-cycling-medalist-kelly-catlin-dead-at-23
https://www.stanforddaily.com/2012/03/26/student-athlete-sam-wopat-dies-at-19/
And then there are the former football players who have struggled with mental health issues, substance abuse, or suicidality:
https://www.12news.com/article/sports/valley-sports-star-zach-hoffpauir-died-of-drug-overdose-report-finds/75-8595d7d1-6ceb-4fb7-ac0e-ff6749ba3728
https://www.nfldraftdiamonds.com/2020/12/nfl-25/
https://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/miami-dolphins/fl-sp-dolphins-jonathan-martin-20180225-story.html
https://www.si.com/college/usc/football/richard-sherman-speaks-out
Good piece here by former WBB player Mikaela Brewer:
https://www.stanforddaily.com/2018/09/20/when-keep-your-head-in-the-game-goes-too-far-student-athletes-mental-health-and-the-drug-of-expectation/
Quote:Consider: the second leading cause of death among U.S. collegiate athletes is suicide, just after sudden cardiac arrest. Why is it so hard to ask for help? No one individual is at fault, but beginning to turn the stigma around will take a collective consciousness of the issue.
BC
RE: Men's Gymnastics - JustAnotherFan - 07-27-2021
(07-27-2021, 01:11 PM)Phogge Wrote: When has the "best ever" in a discipline walked out on their team in the middle of a competition?
Seems like the answer is 2021.
RE: Men's Gymnastics - DC 86 - 07-27-2021
(07-27-2021, 06:02 PM)JustAnotherFan Wrote:(07-27-2021, 01:11 PM)Phogge Wrote: When has the "best ever" in a discipline walked out on their team in the middle of a competition?
Seems like the answer is 2021.
It's certainly not the same, but Andrew Luck retired on the eve of the 2019 season coming off of a Pro Bowl year. Although he had suffered an accumulation of injuries it was clear that it was the mental and emotional effect of those injuries that informed his decision.
RE: Men's Gymnastics - Leftcoast - 07-27-2021
Mixed feelings on this - While team gymnastics at this (previously unheard of) level is dangerous isn't it also an athlete's duty to either be ready for competition or to drop out in time for your substitute to prepare?
The All-Around and Event competitions are next. Get healthy Simone, we're rooting for you; but if you're not mentally ready to compete allow your replacements the time they need to get THEMSELVES ready.
RE: Men's Gymnastics - needle - 07-27-2021
Every sport has a unique culture, and Biles seems to have the support of her peers and past greats.
In my mind, it seems like a move from someone very proud who believes they are past their prime and thus would have had no shot at the type of performance necessary for team gold.
RE: Men's Gymnastics - DC 86 - 07-27-2021
(07-27-2021, 07:32 PM)needle Wrote: In my mind, it seems like a move from someone very proud who believes they are past their prime and thus would have had no shot at the type of performance necessary for team gold.
Disagree. She could have walked through the four segments and the US would have won the gold. But gymnastics is a dangerous sport and if her head wasn't right I assume she didn't feel comfortable performing her high-difficulty routines, particularly on vault. Akkidoc would know better than me, but that's my impression.
RE: Men's Gymnastics - Phogge - 07-27-2021
Luck played all 16 regular season games and two playoffs and retired after the season.
He quit on nobody in the middle of competition.