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A rare, in-your-face swipe by Jon Wilner - Printable Version

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A rare, in-your-face swipe by Jon Wilner - gailtate - 11-24-2021

Even he is fed up

"If the longest losing streak since the Walt Harris era isn't enough to convince David Shaw that staff changes are needed, then nothing will. For anyone else, mass firingswould be a no-brainer given the abysmal product on the field." 

I fear that "nothing will".


RE: A rare, in-your-face swipe by Jon Wilner - OutsiderFan - 11-24-2021

I nominate "Staff Changes Are Needed" as a new band name.


RE: A rare, in-your-face swipe by Jon Wilner - thunder_chik - 11-24-2021

I watched the first 10 minutes of Shaw's Tuesday presser.  At 3:29, he said, "it's not about we have the wrong players, it's not about we have the wrong coaches ...".  He talked a lot about being opportunistic, missed opportunities, and so forth.
Attitude and body language seemed quite defensive, and he looked tired.


RE: A rare, in-your-face swipe by Jon Wilner - martyup - 11-24-2021

(11-24-2021, 11:42 AM)thunder_chik Wrote:  I watched the first 10 minutes of Shaw's Tuesday presser.  At 3:29, he said, "it's not about we have the wrong players, it's not about we have the wrong coaches ...".  He talked a lot about being opportunistic, missed opportunities, and so forth.
Attitude and body language seemed quite defensive, and he looked tired.

Well, when you've lost the last 6 games including getting blown out by a crappy cal team, IT'S ALL ABOUT HAVING THE WRONG PLAYERS AND/OR THE WRONG COACHES!!


RE: A rare, in-your-face swipe by Jon Wilner - teejers1 - 11-24-2021

(11-24-2021, 11:42 AM)thunder_chik Wrote:  I watched the first 10 minutes of Shaw's Tuesday presser.  At 3:29, he said, "it's not about we have the wrong players, it's not about we have the wrong coaches ...".  He talked a lot about being opportunistic, missed opportunities, and so forth.
Attitude and body language seemed quite defensive, and he looked tired.

I don't want to overreact to this presser statement before the season is over (I think time for introspection/assessment - including that encouraged by superiors - occurs at season's end).  But I will say that denial is a very bad look, and makes it exceedingly difficult to address the problems.


RE: A rare, in-your-face swipe by Jon Wilner - terry - 11-24-2021

After years of Shaw's press conferences, I've concluded that he is very circumspect and he reveals as little as possible about his true thoughts and intentions. So, I don't think there's much point in carefully analyzing what he says in a press conference. 

In particular, I seriously doubt that Shaw would reveal even a possibility of making staff changes until it actually happens.


RE: A rare, in-your-face swipe by Jon Wilner - JohnR34231 - 11-24-2021

(11-24-2021, 11:42 AM)thunder_chik Wrote:  I watched the first 10 minutes of Shaw's Tuesday presser.  At 3:29, he said, "it's not about we have the wrong players, it's not about we have the wrong coaches ...".  He talked a lot about being opportunistic, missed opportunities, and so forth.
Attitude and body language seemed quite defensive, and he looked tired.

Well, when you have lost six straight games, and the last three by a combined score of 128-32, that would seem to be a tough statement to defend.
I would have preferred something like "After the ND game we are going to take a long hard look at what changes need to be made to turn this program around."


RE: A rare, in-your-face swipe by Jon Wilner - Branner77 - 11-24-2021

(11-24-2021, 12:20 PM)teejers1 Wrote:  
(11-24-2021, 11:42 AM)thunder_chik Wrote:  I watched the first 10 minutes of Shaw's Tuesday presser.  At 3:29, he said, "it's not about we have the wrong players, it's not about we have the wrong coaches ...".  He talked a lot about being opportunistic, missed opportunities, and so forth.
Attitude and body language seemed quite defensive, and he looked tired.

I don't want to overreact to this presser statement before the season is over (I think time for introspection/assessment - including that encouraged by superiors - occurs at season's end).  But I will say that denial is a very bad look, and makes it exceedingly difficult to address the problems.

Last night, Pac12 networks aired a replay of the amazing 1991 Big Game, where 85,000+ fans watched Touchdown Tommy Vardell pulverize the helpless kal defense for over 200 scrimmage yards and 3 TDs. Remember Ed McAuley's signature call whenever Vardell scored in 1990-91: "Stanford touchdown, Tommy Vardell!" 

Final score Stanford 38 kal 21, and Cal loudmouths Pawlaski and Treggs had to eat their words. 

The list of Stanford stars from that Big Game is almost endless - Stenstrom, Vardell, Milburn, C Walsh, Whitfield, Ryan Wetnight, Tom Williams, Garnett, Ron George, Coy Gibbs, Darrien Gordon, Seyon Albert, Albert Richardson, John Lynch, the great Vince Otupaul on special teams - and yes, # 84 WR David Shaw, who made a key reception late in the first half. With head coach Denny Green in his Stanford windbreaker, and Willie Shaw and Ty Willingham as assistants. 

A friend from freshman year also tuned into the replay and emailed me to say, "what and who will we remember from this year's team, 30 years from now?"


RE: A rare, in-your-face swipe by Jon Wilner - terry - 11-24-2021

(11-24-2021, 12:46 PM)Branner77 Wrote:  A friend from freshman year also tuned into the replay and emailed me to say, "what and who will we remember from this year's team, 30 years from now?"

I will remember beating Oregon in overtime.


RE: A rare, in-your-face swipe by Jon Wilner - Papa John - 11-24-2021

Can't find the ND presser online, but, like Terry, I would expect Shaw to wait until after the ND game to talk about changes to his staff. If he's not going to fire anyone this week, why talk about it before the final game?


RE: A rare, in-your-face swipe by Jon Wilner - thunder_chik - 11-24-2021

(11-24-2021, 12:52 PM)Papa John Wrote:  Can't find the ND presser online, but, like Terry, I would expect Shaw to wait until after the ND game to talk about changes to his staff. If he's not going to fire anyone this week, why talk about it before the final game?
YouTube, "Stanford Football Weekly Press Conference"
I'm surprised he even brought it up.


RE: A rare, in-your-face swipe by Jon Wilner - Goose - 11-24-2021

(11-24-2021, 12:52 PM)Papa John Wrote:  Can't find the ND presser online, but, like Terry, I would expect Shaw to wait until after the ND game to talk about changes to his staff. If he's not going to fire anyone this week, why talk about it before the final game?
I don't think Shaw is going to "fire" anyone. You may see some staff depart for various personal reasons, new jobs etc. See Whittingham's handling of the Troy Taylor situation at Utah.


RE: A rare, in-your-face swipe by Jon Wilner - gailtate - 11-24-2021

(11-24-2021, 12:51 PM)terry Wrote:  
(11-24-2021, 12:46 PM)Branner77 Wrote:  A friend from freshman year also tuned into the replay and emailed me to say, "what and who will we remember from this year's team, 30 years from now?"

I will remember beating Oregon in overtime.

Wish I had a memory such as yours!


RE: A rare, in-your-face swipe by Jon Wilner - Austroturf - 11-24-2021

(11-24-2021, 12:35 PM)terry Wrote:  After years of Shaw's press conferences, I've concluded that he is very circumspect and he reveals as little as possible about his true thoughts and intentions. So, I don't think there's much point in carefully analyzing what he says in a press conference. 

In particular, I seriously doubt that Shaw would reveal even a possibility of making staff changes until it actually happens.

This ^.  I also listened to Shaw's statements in the presser; and of course he is not going to reveal any moves he has in mind.  He is offering status quo platitudes to get the press out of his face.  My fear, however, is that he has no moves in mind, that he may really mean what he said in the presser, that all is fine in Cardinal-land, and it's just a matter of better execution and capitalizing on opportunities.  

He tried to explain away the plethora of injuries as not related to S&C because most were due to "broken bones" -- because somehow broken bones have nothing to do with S&C.  Not sure whether there are medical doctors on this board who will corroborate that statement, but it stands to reason that athletes with superior S&C training are less likely to suffer from broken bones because they are stronger and are physically dominating their opponents.


RE: A rare, in-your-face swipe by Jon Wilner - teejers1 - 11-24-2021

(11-24-2021, 01:22 PM)Austroturf Wrote:  
(11-24-2021, 12:35 PM)terry Wrote:  After years of Shaw's press conferences, I've concluded that he is very circumspect and he reveals as little as possible about his true thoughts and intentions. So, I don't think there's much point in carefully analyzing what he says in a press conference. 

In particular, I seriously doubt that Shaw would reveal even a possibility of making staff changes until it actually happens.

This ^.  I also listened to Shaw's statements in the presser; and of course he is not going to reveal any moves he has in mind.  He is offering status quo platitudes to get the press out of his face.  My fear, however, is that he has no moves in mind, that he may really mean what he said in the presser, that all is fine in Cardinal-land, and it's just a matter of better execution and capitalizing on opportunities.  

He tried to explain away the plethora of injuries as not related to S&C because most were due to "broken bones" -- because somehow broken bones have nothing to do with S&C.  Not sure whether there are medical doctors on this board who will corroborate that statement, but it stands to reason that athletes with superior S&C training are less likely to suffer from broken bones because they are stronger and are physically dominating their opponents.

Let's be blunt:  if Shaw really believes that gobbledygook he spewed at the presser, then we're toast.  As noted, denial is a very bad look.
I'm hoping it's just boilerplate/platitudes to get through the presser and that real changes are forthcoming.


RE: A rare, in-your-face swipe by Jon Wilner - gailtate - 11-24-2021

(11-24-2021, 01:10 PM)Goose Wrote:  
(11-24-2021, 12:52 PM)Papa John Wrote:  Can't find the ND presser online, but, like Terry, I would expect Shaw to wait until after the ND game to talk about changes to his staff. If he's not going to fire anyone this week, why talk about it before the final game?
I don't think Shaw is going to "fire" anyone. You may see some staff depart for various personal reasons, new jobs etc. See Whittingham's handling of the Troy Taylor situation at Utah.


Here's the rub:  So Shaw says goodbye to some staffers. What then? How clean does that broom sweep: You think he will shape-shift into something he has shown absolutely no inclination to ever be, e.g., relinquishment of all offensive control, make underlings feel slightly uncomfortable, a la Walsh and Belichick? Don't get me wrong. I hope to hell this is precisely what he does, because there is NO OTHER WAY. Still, I have that sinking feeling.


RE: A rare, in-your-face swipe by Jon Wilner - needle - 11-24-2021

I put the over/under on coaches departing at 2.5.


RE: A rare, in-your-face swipe by Jon Wilner - Goose - 11-24-2021

(11-24-2021, 01:30 PM)gailtate Wrote:  
(11-24-2021, 01:10 PM)Goose Wrote:  
(11-24-2021, 12:52 PM)Papa John Wrote:  Can't find the ND presser online, but, like Terry, I would expect Shaw to wait until after the ND game to talk about changes to his staff. If he's not going to fire anyone this week, why talk about it before the final game?
I don't think Shaw is going to "fire" anyone. You may see some staff depart for various personal reasons, new jobs etc. See Whittingham's handling of the Troy Taylor situation at Utah.


Here's the rub:  So Shaw says goodbye to some staffers. What then? How clean does that broom sweep: You think he will shape-shift into something he has shown absolutely no inclination to ever be, e.g., relinquishment of all offensive control, make underlings feel slightly uncomfortable, a la Walsh and Belichick? Don't get me wrong. I hope to hell this is precisely what he does, because there is NO OTHER WAY. Still, I have that sinking feeling.
Certainly there are other ways. Your management style apparently requires your subordinates feel slightly uncomfortable. Another way is to hire guys that are so good you CAN'T make them feel uncomfortable. Another way is to hire smart guys that you make comfortable enough that they can work together to "fix" what needs fixing. Do you think Walsh ever relinquished offensive control? Not while he was alive. There are many paths that work, depending on the situation. Not all of them involve slash and burn.

I do think that Shaw, like many leaders, often tends to hire people that are very much like himself. He is a guy with lots of professional experience. When he slipped and said "Its not my job to motivate players.", I think he expressed his preference. He is a self-motivating guy and expects others to be likewise. Unfortunately, college sports aren't like that.
I also expect getting good coaches to work at Stanford is real, real hard, and getting harder by the day. It isn't just, or even mostly, the high cost of living. It is dealing with the fact you can't recruit from anything like the same pool other colleges do. Why take a job that ties your hands unless 1) you really want to teach "student athletes" and succeed under those terms, or 2) you think you can make a short-term splash and leave within 2 years. Nobody is going to come here hoping to get the head coaching job eventually. It just isn't that desirable position. It might pay a lot of money, but it can also be a career killer. Shaw is going to have to hire from the small pool available, and that may not get us what we need.


RE: A rare, in-your-face swipe by Jon Wilner - Phogge - 11-24-2021

Bottom line is that Shaw is in over his head trying to rebuild a near dead program. He will never do it. He will fail.
He got by with great Harballs players and some great players that he recruited. Now with few effective D1 kids he has no clue and so far there is no game changing batch of players on campus. Not enough tough kids.


RE: A rare, in-your-face swipe by Jon Wilner - winflop - 11-24-2021

(11-24-2021, 11:42 AM)thunder_chik Wrote:  I watched the first 10 minutes of Shaw's Tuesday presser.  At 3:29, he said, "it's not about we have the wrong players, it's not about we have the wrong coaches ...".  He talked a lot about being opportunistic, missed opportunities, and so forth.
Attitude and body language seemed quite defensive, and he looked tired.

NO COACH, IT'S ABOUT BOTH!

YOU DON'T HAVE THE RIGHT PLAYERS - THAT'S YOU & YOUR COACHES' FAULT FOR RECRUITING THE WRONG PLAYERS
YOU DON'T HAVE THE RIGHT COACHES - THAT'S YOUR FAULT TOO

(11-24-2021, 11:42 AM)thunder_chik Wrote:  I watched the first 10 minutes of Shaw's Tuesday presser.  At 3:29, he said, "it's not about we have the wrong players, it's not about we have the wrong coaches ...".  He talked a lot about being opportunistic, missed opportunities, and so forth.
Attitude and body language seemed quite defensive, and he looked tired.

How about this instead:
"This season has been unacceptably poor from everyone's perspective. After the season is over, I will be reviewing every aspect of this program to see where improvements can be made. I am committed to fixing this."