WROW: 2nd @ NCAAs! (2022 Pac-12 champions)

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WROW: 2nd @ NCAAs! (2022 Pac-12 champions) - fullmetal - 05-25-2022

The Stanford women's rowing team has won the 2022 Pac-12 conference championships with a near-sweep of all events raced:
1st place: 1V8+, V4+, 3V8+, N8+
2nd place: 2V8+ (behind Washington by 1.67 seconds)

Race results here: http://results.regattatiming.com/backoffice/webpages/staticRaceResults.jsp?raceId=546

In the novice eight, kal was the early leader at 500m, about 2.1 seconds up over third-place Stanford. kal faltered badly over the remainder of the race, allowing Washington to take the lead. Stanford trailed Washington by a full second at the 500m but made up about half a second at the 1000m mark and the 1500m mark to nip Washington at the line by...0.04 seconds. Truly a race of great fortitude to come from behind steadily for the last-second win!

In the third varsity eight, Stanford took an early two-second lead at 500m over Washington and steadily increased the lead in blue-collar fashion to 3.19 seconds at the finish line. This was also a race requiring steely resolve, as Washington would not let Stanford break free through most of the race.

In the varsity four, Stanford trailed Washington by about a half second at 500m. At 1000m, Stanford had reversed the margin to a half second up over Washington. At 1500m, Stanford was about a half-length up over Washington (1.81 sec), and crossing the finish line, Stanford had broken free, winning by a margin of 4.586 seconds. Their last 500m split was faster than their second 500m split--what a great effort to shut the door on the Huskies.

In the second varsity eight, Stanford trailed Washington by roughly 1.3, 2, 1.8, and 1.67 sec at each of the 500m marks. It was a great effort to not let a strong Washington boat get away, but Stanford couldn't make up that early deficit.

In the varsity eight, Stanford claimed an early half-second lead over Washington at 500m and gradually extended it to 2.7, 4, and 5.65 seconds over the subsequent 500m points.

This marks only the second time in program history where Stanford has won their conference (first in 2014; they finished 4th at NCAAs). Last year, Stanford finished second to Washington at the Pac-12s but then earned second place at NCAAs behind Texas (three-way points tie with Washington and Texas broken by first varsity eight finish).

Last year at NCAAs, Stanford's three boats stormed their way to their respective grand finals, placing first in their heats and semifinals (with the exception of the 2V8+, which advanced to the grand final nonetheless behind Texas). All three Stanford boats placed second in their finals: behind Texas in the 1V8+, and behind Washington in both the 2V8+ and V4+. The Stanford race strategy was gutsy and appeared something akin to "burn hard early for the lead, and hold off the field." It nearly worked; between the three boats, their margins back from first place were all within 1-1.5 seconds. Not bad for a program that really only started practicing together during winter quarter, when most other teams had the fall to begin work.

This year, Stanford returns a large cohort of its rowers and is looking to dethrone Texas (returning 75% of their rowers), who has had a typically superb spring racing schedule, beating Big 10 champion Ohio State, Ivy League 1V8+ winner Princeton, Big 10 runner-up Michigan, and ACC champion Virginia. Stanford has likewise beaten Ohio State, Michigan, and Virginia this season, and the Cardinal also hold a victory over Ivy League team points champion Brown.

The top six seeds for each event are as follow:

I EIGHTS	II EIGHTS	FOURS
1 Texas	1 Texas	1 Texas
2 Princeton	2 Yale	2 Stanford
3 Stanford	3 Washington	3 Princeton
4 Brown	4 Stanford	4 Ohio State
5 Yale	5 Brown	5 Washington
6 Ohio State	6 Pennsylvania	6 Brown

All 22 seedings can be found here:
https://www.ncaa.com/news/rowing/article/2022-05-17/2022-division-i-womens-rowing-championship-selections-announced

After the Big Row vs. kal was canceled this month (due to covid issues in the Stanford boathouse), there were some lingering questions about whether Stanford's fitness had been affected. The Pac-12 championship shows that Stanford is at least better than they were last year relative to the west coast. The NCAA regatta, however, is quite unforgiving: three races (if you're lucky) in three days to determine a champion, versus the conference championship format of single race finals for all events. Sarasota, FL is likewise an unforgiving mess of humidity and heat, on the opposite coast coast from comparatively temperate Palo Alto. The team will need to acclimate and adjust to a much earlier time zone.

The regatta begins Friday.

RE: WROW: 2022 Pac-12 champions! (and NCAA preview) - BigEasyCard - 05-25-2022

Thanks for the in-depth write-up.

Geaux Cardinal!

RE: WROW: 2022 Pac-12 champions! (and NCAA preview) - SamuelMcF - 05-25-2022

Why is Texas so good? It feels like they're a women's rowing blue-blood. Is that true?

RE: WROW: 2022 Pac-12 champions! (and NCAA preview) - fullmetal - 05-25-2022

Not in the sense that you'd use that term to describe the Ivy League schools. Texas was fairly irrelevant until they hired Dave O'Neill, formerly of kal women's rowing, in the summer of 2014. Texas immediately grabbed four mid-season transfers and, with an improving talent base, qualified for the 2015 NCAA championship regatta as a team, a program first. It's only been upward since then. Texas recruits well internationally, domestically, and on campus. They have a full slate of coaches (paid, volunteer, grad asst) and money to spare.

Their all-time NCAA championship finishes:
2021 – National Champions
2020 – No regatta
2019 – 2nd
2018 – 3rd
2017 – 4th
2016 – 8th
2015 – 7th

They qualified automatically for the championship regatta in 2015 by winning their conference and have done so ever since (the rest of their conference has been pretty mediocre at best in this span). The 2017 4th place finish was a brobdingnagian step forward, as that involved multiple boats advancing to the grand finals (very difficult). It's been reloading/recruiting and hard training all the way.

Stanford, by comparison, has no grad or volunteer coaches, and while unafraid to seek international talent, still has to deal with admissions standards. Also, the walk-on pool at Stanford is markedly smaller than it is at Texas. Stanford definitely punches up well to hang with the big programs, but they aren't settling for second place this year if they can help it.

RE: WROW: 2022 Pac-12 champions! (and NCAA preview) - Maple Leaf - 05-26-2022

(05-25-2022, 01:28 PM)SamuelMcF Wrote: Why is Texas so good? It feels like they're a women's rowing blue-blood. Is that true?

The longhorns need something to back fill their once upon a time blue-blood football team.

RE: WROW: 2022 Pac-12 champions! (and NCAA preview) - fullmetal - 05-27-2022

Ironically enough, women's rowing is often seen by athletic departments as a sport that easily balances out football in terms of head count and resource allocation. This leads to a few athletic departments refusing to elevate a good men's club rowing team to varsity status because the AD would lose that football counterweight.

In this morning's racing, Stanford won each of their three event heats to advance to their respective A/B semifinals tomorrow morning.

At this regatta, the top two Friday heat finishers advance directly to Saturday's A/B semifinals. Everyone else from the heat races on Friday afternoon in one of two repechages, which are "second-chance" races. The top two from each repechage will also advance to the A/B semifinals on Saturday. Everyone else will race in a C/D semifinal on Saturday. Each A/B semifinal's top three finishers will advance to the A final (or grand final). The bottom three finishers in the A/B semifinals will race in the B final (or petite final). Likewise for the C/D finals, the top three go to the C final, and the bottom three go to the D final in each of the two semifinals.

Those advancing to the A/B semis out of the reps will have an extra race on their legs from which to recover for Saturday morning's races.

Livestream links (sorry for not posting sooner!):
Friday:
D1 AM: https://www.ncaa.com/event/4216 (9AM ET)
D1 PM: https://www.ncaa.com/event/4217 (4:10PM ET)
D2 AM: https://www.ncaa.com/event/4218 (11:20AM ET)
D2 PM: https://www.ncaa.com/event/4219 (5:20PM ET)
D3 AM: https://www.ncaa.com/event/4220 (8:10AM ET)
D3 PM: https://www.ncaa.com/event/4221 (3:45PM ET)

Saturday:
D1: https://www.ncaa.com/event/4222 (8:10AM ET)
D2: https://www.ncaa.com/event/4223 (11AM ET)
D3: https://www.ncaa.com/event/4224 (10:30AM ET)

Sunday:
D1: https://www.ncaa.com/event/4225 (8:10AM ET)

RE: WROW: 2022 Pac-12 champions! (and NCAA preview) - Canalejas - 05-27-2022

It looks like Stanford won each of its three heats today. Should we read anything into the time differences between the winners of the different heats? It looks like Texas had the fastest times in all three categories.

RE: WROW: 2022 Pac-12 champions! (and NCAA preview) - BigEasyCard - 05-27-2022

(05-27-2022, 12:41 PM)Canalejas Wrote: It looks like Stanford won each of its three heats today. Should we read anything into the time differences between the winners of the different heats? It looks like Texas had the fastest times in all three categories.

A better time offers better lane assignments in subsequent events. From the 2021 Rowing Championship Manual:

"In the repêchages and semifinals, the principle is to place the crews with the best previous results in the center lanes of the course. Similarly, the crews with the worst previous results are placed in the outside lanes of the course."

Above per p. 17: 2020-21D1WCR_PreChampManual.pdf (ncaaorg.s3.amazonaws.com)

If I were Stanford, I'd want to be right next to Texas in all of my events.

Geaux Cardinal!

RE: WROW: 2022 Pac-12 champions! (and NCAA preview) - fullmetal - 05-27-2022

Correct. At the moment, it doesn't look like the lane assignments will give much advantage in the prevailing weather conditions. At some venues, certain lanes will be better shielded from wind/current. That's not really the case for Sarasota, unless a wicked east wind kicks up, at which point the fairness/championship committee will convene and decide whether to reassign lanes.

Ordinarily, I would hesitate to compare times between races because of varying wind conditions, but...this is NCAAs, and the tailwind looked somewhat consistent throughout the morning.

34 DIV I: 8+ Semi-Final 2 08:48 AM
1 Virginia
2 Washington
3 Stanford
4 Princeton
5 Yale
6 Michigan

Commentary: This looks like the toughest, fastest semi-final, with Ivy League winners Princeton (two seconds faster than Stanford in their heat) and Pac-12 runners-up Washington flanking Stanford. Yale went out hard in their heat for the lead but faded back to second after halfway...did they sandbag for extra energy? Washington did something similar, hanging with Texas in their heat until the halfway point and then fading back when they were a length of open water up on third place Penn. A very dangerous semifinal. In the other semifinal, Texas should easily dispatch Brown (by...transitivity via Princeton) and kal (down year). And Texas has already mollywhomped Ohio State earlier this season. Not fair.

My pick: Stanford, Princeton, Washington

38 DIV I: SECOND 8+ Semi-Final 2 09:36 AM
1 Michigan
2 Virginia
3 Yale
4 Stanford
5 Southern Methodist
6 Ohio State

Commentary: Arguably Stanford's weakest boat at the #4 seed (pre-regatta), I would be very wary of #2 Yale, who posted a time two seconds faster than Stanford even when they weren't pushed in their heat. #11 Virginia and #9 SMU both posted slower times from the heats even as they were being pushed hard by their respective heat third-place finishers (both less than a second back). The other semifinal looks more dangerous on paper.

My pick: Stanford, Yale, Virginia (upset over SMU)

42 DIV I: 4+ Semi-Final 2 10:24 AM
1 California
2 Ohio State
3 Stanford
4 Princeton
5 Yale
6 Southern California

Commentary: Stanford has the #2-seeded 4+, but #3-seeded Princeton posted a very similar time in the heats; neither was really pushed. Yale was pushed hard by USC in the heats and went 10 sec slower than Stanford, and Stanford beat both kal and USC by over 8 sec each at the Pac-12 championships. The other semifinal looks easy for Texas.

My pick: Stanford, Princeton, Ohio State (#4)

Remember that it's really just top three to advance to the grand final. The times are somewhat reliable indicators that Stanford will advance all three boats and potentially win each of their semifinals. But I also remember one year when Stanford burned a lot of energy to win some tough semifinals, only to appear gassed in the finals. Maybe you just need to go out hard, assess the field, and not kill yourself trying to win the semi. These multi-day regattas require a little bit of strategy, in my opinion, but other schools of thought say that the athletes need the confidence from going all-out every race. If Stanford has the chance to save energy not chasing Princeton in the 1V (e.g. if Princeton sells their soul to win the semi), I would hold back for the final. Same with Yale in the 2V.

RE: WROW: NCAA championship underway! (2022 Pac-12 champions) - fullmetal - 05-28-2022

In the 1V race, Princeton jumped out in front for the first half of the race, while Washington and Stanford sat in second and third behind them, respectively. After the 1k mark, Princeton apparently dialed it down and settled for third, comfortably ahead of Yale, while Stanford and Washington continued to push with effort to the finish line. Stanford finished about 1.6 sec ahead of Washington and 2.8 sec ahead of Princeton. It's my uninformed opinion that Princeton decided to get strategic with energy conservation after securing an advancing position to the grand final.

In the other semifinal, Texas won comfortably, followed by Brown in second. In a minor upset, kal stayed ahead of Ohio State wire-to-wire and relegated the Buckeyes to the petite final. For those keeping track, kal had the third-fastest 1V at the Pac-12 championships, and Ohio State was the Big 10 1V winner. Ha.

In the 2V race, we should first note that that the Texas 2V was in the other semi, where Washington jumped out quickly, followed by Texas. Washington had a substantial but uncomfortable lead over Texas through the halfway mark, as Texas was slowly etching away the margin. The two crews were a half second apart at 1500m, and Texas claimed the victory by 1.32 sec at the finish line. Did Washington row a controlled race, or did they fade while Texas lived up to their pre-regatta seeding of #1? I'd be happy if both teams burned their legs today--Washington beat Stanford in this boat class at the Pac-12s, so any help would be good.

There was a long (+78 min) weather delay between semifinal 1 and semifinal 2 due to lightning in the area of the regatta. This means that anyone racing the second semi has one hour less to recover from their race today in preparation for tomorrow's grand final. Does that matter? At this level, I think it might, but I hope not since Stanford raced in semifinal 2.

In semifinal 2 of the 2V event, Stanford and Yale jumped out on the field immediately and ended up nearly pacing each other through 1500m, at which point Stanford pulled ahead to win by 2.5 seconds. Hopefully this was just an example of properly executed Prisoner's Dilemma game theory. Virginia jumped out ahead of SMU early to claim the third place advancing spot. SMU faded after the halfway mark and finished fifth behind Ohio State, who did not press Virginia for third.

In semifinal 2 of the V4 event, Stanford and Princeton jumped out to the front and stayed within 1-2 sec of each other until the last 500m, after which Princeton seemed to shut it down (margin went from 1.75 sec to 3.9 sec), allowing Stanford to win the semi. Behind them, Ohio State trailed Princeton and was never really pushed by Yale.

So -- Stanford wins all three of their semifinals, but possibly because opponents sandbagged their second half efforts after locking up advancing spots. We see that the Pac-12 is stronger and deeper than the Big 10 and the ACC. Stanford, Texas, Princeton, and maybe even Washington will contend for the national championship, having sent all three boats to the grand finals.

DIV I: 4+ Final 1 09:34 AM ET
1 Brown
2 Princeton
3 Washington
4 Stanford
5 Texas
6 Ohio State

DIV I: SECOND 8+ Final 1 10:00 AM ET
1 Princeton
2 Yale
3 Texas
4 Stanford
5 Washington
6 Virginia

DIV I: 8+ Final 1 10:24 AM ET
1 Princeton
2 Brown
3 Stanford
4 Texas
5 Washington
6 California

Livestream for the Sunday grand finals:
D1: https://www.ncaa.com/event/4225

RE: WROW: NCAA championship underway! (2022 Pac-12 champions) - Canalejas - 05-29-2022

We finished second :(

https://gostanford.com/news/2022/5/29/womens-rowing-runner-up-finish.aspx

Quote:Varsity Eight- Grand Final
1. Texas- 6:10.733
2. Stanford- 6:15.437
3. Princeton- 6:17.707
4. California- 6:18.782
5. Washington- 6:19.163
6. Brown- 6:26.592

Second Varsity Eight- Grand Final
1. Yale- 6:21.169
2. Stanford- 6:23.220
3. Washington- 6:24.514
4. Texas- 6:26.282
5. Princeton- 6:30.692
6. Virginia- 6:35.795

Varsity Four- Grand Final
1. Princeton- 7:05.231
2. Ohio State- 7:06.464
3. Texas- 7:07.187
4. Stanford- 7:08.541
5. Washington- 7:10.786
6. Brown- 7:19.229

RE: WROW: NCAA championship underway! (2022 Pac-12 champions) - pauloalto - 05-29-2022

It is now two years in a row that we have tied for first in total points scored but lost the championship based on the tiebreaker - the order of finish for the I eights.

This year we tied with Texas with 124 points and finished second. Last year we tied with Texas and Washington at126 points and finished second.

Do ties like this happen that often?

RE: WROW: NCAA championship underway! (2022 Pac-12 champions) - ca245 - 05-30-2022

Seems like women's rowing is the preferred sport for padding women's participation figures to comply with Title IX.
Title IX

RE: WROW: NCAA championship underway! (2022 Pac-12 champions) - fullmetal - 05-30-2022

(05-29-2022, 09:45 AM)pauloalto Wrote: Do ties like this happen that often?

V8 tiebreakers for the championship are quite uncommon, much less two in a row. It's hard to race at such a high level across three different boat classes, and it's also hard to land on exact boat finish combinations that result in tied points tallies. Having said that, tiebreaks for first place don't happen often in the regular season because you don't often have multiple conference programs that are so closely matched such that the lower-ranked programs can spoil in the 2V and V4 to generate the point differences required in the V8 finish to tie two top programs. Ties in the lower echelons of final rankings happen more often, but to determine the championship really requires some specific circumstances.

(05-30-2022, 10:18 AM)ca245 Wrote: Seems like women's rowing is the preferred sport for padding women's participation figures to comply with Title IX.

This is true. You definitely notice programs that are perennial basement dwellers that go for years without coaching changes or marked improvement. This is also one of the reasons why athletic departments are loathe to add men's rowing as a varsity sport. But you can't be a top women's rowing program without significant investment from the athletic department, and there are more than a few programs with top talent and keen coaches.

My personal takes on the racing:

The V4+ had an uncharacteristic race (very slow second 500m) and finished fourth. Stanford won their semifinal by many seconds over Princeton and Ohio State, who in turn came out guns blazing in the final to take the top two places. Did Princeton and Ohio State lower their effort for the semifinal, having a very secure qualifying place? (They were not in danger of being caught by the fourth place boat.) Texas had to settle for third behind Princeton and Ohio State...but the Longhorns did place ahead of Washington (who beat them in the semifinal). In fact, Washington was hanging just behind Princeton through 3/4 of the race, after which they appeared to fade very quickly, from second to fifth place behind Stanford. Unfortunately, Stanford's place right behind Texas would be the hair's breadth that Texas later needed to cash in on the V8 tiebreak for the championship.

The 2V8+ had a pretty tough race to win silver. A group of four boats crossed the first 500m first, led by Yale, with Stanford in the back of that lead pack by about 0.7 sec. After the second 500m, Princeton had dropped back to fifth overall behind Texas. After the third 500m, Stanford had overtaken Washington by about a half second. Yale took the gold in a wire-to-wire finish despite a charge from Stanford, but it wasn't especially close. The Stanford 2V8+ did well to beat Washington (to whom they lost at the Pac-12 championships) while hanging in there to outlast Princeton and straight up beat Texas (ranked #1 pre-regatta). If Princeton had beaten Texas...lol.

The 1V8+ performed within reasonable expectations to win silver but were outclassed (as was the rest of the field) by a fast Texas varsity eight. Stanford and Princeton crossed the first 500m together behind Texas (who kept marching further away through the finish), but Stanford just put some distance on Princeton in the second 500m to establish a lead that would not be relinquished through the finish line. Behind Princeton, kal and Washington traded leads early on, and though Washington stayed within striking distance for most of the race, kal would ultimately finish ahead by 0.381 sec, upending their Pac-12 championship result of a 1.48 sec Husky win.

It's very hard to win an NCAA rowing team championship, and it's even harder to maintain a top-two finish two years in a row. It was said that Yale and Michigan lost top athletes to injury/illness right before the regatta -- no word on why or what. Traditional powers like kal, Virginia, and Ohio State have found themselves uncharacteristically out of the conversation: down but not out. Princeton has reasserted themselves as a contender, and Yale has shown some strength. Washington, who was in that three-way tie for first last year, had a tough season and couldn't find their mojo. Second place isn't the goal, but it is a worthy accomplishment for the Stanford program, who will return to campus and start final exams this week.

Race results here (until 2023 comes along?):
http://www.regattatiming.com/results/ncaa/

Final points tally:
http://www.regattatiming.com/results/547/heatsheets/2022-ncaa-final-team-standings.pdf

RE: WROW: 2nd @ NCAAs! (2022 Pac-12 champions) - pauloalto - 05-30-2022

Well, I did what I should have done in the first place. I looked up the history of women's championship rowing for Division 1.

In 25 years of championships there have been tied scores at the top five times. In three of those Stanford came in second. We have never won first.

Next time we tie for first, it's our turn.

RE: WROW: 2nd @ NCAAs! (2022 Pac-12 champions) - fullmetal - 05-30-2022

Gotta win the 1V8+ in that case :) Kudos to head coach Derek Byrnes for staying with the competition and recruiting the right talent to be in the mix. I think Stanford had the highest number of US rowers in their 1V8+ boat at six (Klok - NED, Zamorano - ESP). Texas had five US rowers. For a grand final boat, that shows commitment to recruiting domestic talent, and to medal with those lineups is praiseworthy on the coaches' part. (In contrast, you can see the men's collegiate nationals lineups in the grand final next weekend! Or the kal 1V8+ lineup from this weekend...)

RE: WROW: 2nd @ NCAAs! (2022 Pac-12 champions) - Jamesy - 05-30-2022

(05-30-2022, 03:49 PM)pauloalto Wrote: Well, I did what I should have done in the first place. I looked up the history of women's championship rowing for Division 1.

In 25 years of championships there have been tied scores at the top five times. In three of those Stanford came in second. We have never won first.

Next time we tie for first, it's our turn.

Stanford did win an outright national title in 2009.

RE: WROW: 2nd @ NCAAs! (2022 Pac-12 champions) - BostonCard - 05-30-2022

If I understand how points are scored, doing one place better in any of the races would have meant a championship.

BC

RE: WROW: 2nd @ NCAAs! (2022 Pac-12 champions) - fullmetal - 05-30-2022

(05-30-2022, 05:15 PM)Jamesy Wrote: Stanford did win an outright national title in 2009.

pauloalto referred to ties for first place.

(05-30-2022, 08:29 PM)BostonCard Wrote: If I understand how points are scored, doing one place better in any of the races would have meant a championship.

Or, if any additional team had beaten Texas and not Stanford in any event (specifically the 2V8+). For the 1V8+, the tricky part is that Texas was pretty dominant. Their splits were just faster across the board that morning, and to say that Stanford should have beaten them is to wave away the reality of how much speed they had available to them. Now, if you say that Stanford should have rowed eight seconds slower in the semifinal to conserve energy for the final, that might be an interest thought experiment. But again, coaches tend to believe that crews need the confidence of having proven themselves front runners if the crews are going to be asked to dig deep and outlast other crews. Obviously the fastest first half and dial back that Princeton 1V8+ put down in the semifinal wasn't enough to get them into second place, but maybe that was what they needed to stay one second ahead of kal in the final.

In the 2V8+, if Princeton could have been 4.4+ sec faster (this is a significant effort), they would have beaten fourth-place Texas and reduced Texas' point total while not affecting Stanford (in second). But Princeton had been beaten by Texas across all boat classes earlier this season (14.2 sec win in -April), and there wasn't a reason to suspect results would change. Princeton did change their lineups fairly effectively to generate a national championship in the V4+ boat class, and of course, being in the northeast where programs get less water time in the winter, Princeton will typically find more boat speed as the season progresses compared to programs where water is rowable all year long. This is true for the midwest programs as well. Similar to the 1V8+, I would find it hard to say that Stanford "should" have beaten Yale in the 2V8+ event. A careful nitpicking of the split times between the semi and the grand final reveals, however, that the 2V8+ had a rough second 500m in the grand final compared to the semi, and that difference might have been close to the margin between Yale and Stanford. Post-hoc analyses are rarely pleasant, as it's never really as simple as "why didn't you go faster."

As for the V4+, they had an uncharacteristic race. It is a nice observation that the #17-20 best rowers (and the #3 coxswain) in a program are now very crucial in deciding a national championship. Team depth matters, and the age of the coach focusing on one boat, leaving the others to flounder, are pretty much over in women's rowing.

RE: WROW: 2nd @ NCAAs! (2022 Pac-12 champions) - Jamesy - 05-30-2022

(05-30-2022, 10:02 PM)fullmetal Wrote:
(05-30-2022, 05:15 PM)Jamesy Wrote: Stanford did win an outright national title in 2009.
pauloalto referred to ties for first place.

(05-30-2022, 08:29 PM)BostonCard Wrote: If I understand how points are scored, doing one place better in any of the races would have meant a championship.
Or, if any additional team had beaten Texas and not Stanford in any event (specifically the 2V8+). For the 1V8+, the tricky part is that Texas was pretty dominant. Their splits were just faster across the board that morning, and to say that Stanford should have beaten them is to wave away the reality of how much speed they had available to them. Now, if you say that Stanford should have rowed eight seconds slower in the semifinal to conserve energy for the final, that might be an interest thought experiment. But again, coaches tend to believe that crews need the confidence of having proven themselves front runners if the crews are going to be asked to dig deep and outlast other crews. Obviously the fastest first half and dial back that Princeton 1V8+ put down in the semifinal wasn't enough to get them into second place, but maybe that was what they needed to stay one second ahead of kal in the final.

In the 2V8+, if Princeton could have been 4.4+ sec faster (this is a significant effort), they would have beaten fourth-place Texas and reduced Texas' point total while not affecting Stanford (in second). But Princeton had been beaten by Texas across all boat classes earlier this season (14.2 sec win in -April), and there wasn't a reason to suspect results would change. Princeton did change their lineups fairly effectively to generate a national championship in the V4+ boat class, and of course, being in the northeast where programs get less water time in the winter, Princeton will typically find more boat speed as the season progresses compared to programs where water is rowable all year long. This is true for the midwest programs as well. Similar to the 1V8+, I would find it hard to say that Stanford "should" have beaten Yale in the 2V8+ event. A careful nitpicking of the split times between the semi and the grand final reveals, however, that the 2V8+ had a rough second 500m in the grand final compared to the semi, and that difference might have been close to the margin between Yale and Stanford. Post-hoc analyses are rarely pleasant, as it's never really as simple as "why didn't you go faster."

As for the V4+, they had an uncharacteristic race. It is a nice observation that the #17-20 best rowers (and the #3 coxswain) in a program are now very crucial in deciding a national championship. Team depth matters, and the age of the coach focusing on one boat, leaving the others to flounder, are pretty much over in women's rowing.

Your last paragraph is accurate but not sure it necessarily applies to Stanford this year. They had the Coxswain and stroke from last year's ncaa second place finishing 1v8 boat in the v4 plus last year's conference newcomer of the year with world championship experience. Maybe the less experience of the remaining two rowers was the difference but I thought the level of experience and skill (on paper at least) in the v4 was higher than usual.