Stanford vs. Colgate depth chart - Printable Version
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Stanford vs. Colgate depth chart - Spiny_Norman - 08-29-2022
Another Monday morning ritual re-starts. Checking the depth chart.
https://gostanford.com/documents/2022/8/29/2022_Stanford_Football_Depth_Chart_-_01_Colgate.pdf
of note:
Hinton starting at RT (gulp)
Hornibrook starts ahead of Miller at LG
Phillips and Franklin start at DT
David Bailey (true frosh) starts at Edge ahead of the more experienced DiCosmo
Stanford looks pretty healthy. I don't see any obvious absences among the 2 deep except maybe Nicholas Toomer who is not listed. Only 7 players are listed among the 2 deep in the defensive backfield with several of the starters also listed as backups for other positions.
RE: Stanford vs. Colgate depth chart - TrumpCard - 08-29-2022
The team's health status does appear notable. I hope it stays this way!
To me, the next most interesting indicator early in the season is whether we see young players leapfrog older guys who were getting more playing time the prior year. The youngsters might not be elite players right away, but you have a pretty good idea that they're going in that direction. Bailey being a starter as a true freshman is exciting to me for that reason. I would have liked to see Armitage ahead of Kenneley or DiCosmo for the same reason.
RE: Stanford vs. Colgate depth chart - Langdude - 08-29-2022
Personnel Chart updated.
All positions are as expected (for me, at least) except:
1) Like others, I was surprised to see Hornibrook leapfrogged Miller. Not because I don't think that Hornibrook is good, but simply because the staff has been high on Miller since he was a true frosh. I'd guess it's only a matter of time until Miller takes over at RT.
2) Mildly surprised that Bailey gets the nod over DiCosmo at edge opposite Herron. I know Bailey is heralded, and glad to see that he is living up to the hype in practice. Just figured it would take a while for him to supplant a senior.
3) Finally, I am also surprised that Fields is not starting at safety, but rather at nickleback. I realize we play nickel a lot - more than base, perhaps. I just figured the safeties would be Williamson and Fields, with Wyrick and NB. McGill must look really good.
-m.
RE: Stanford vs. Colgate depth chart - needle - 08-30-2022
Tried tracking the Stanford transfers.
No SC depth chart
Peat one of three co-starters at Missouri
Neither Reid nor Petrucci on the two-deep for Utah
Heimuli’s position not listed on BYU’s depth chart
RE: Stanford vs. Colgate depth chart - msqueri - 08-30-2022
My reactions (split into two posts due to character limits and I need to get back to work so don't want to edit for brevity):
* Depth charts are appreciated and give at least a little bit of a glimpse under the hood, or at least what the program wants the outside world to perceive, but shouldn't be overstated. Coaches won't feel bound by this and generally won't use this as the opportunity to unveil major changes. Also, we've seen in the past that these can often being lagging indicators, more of a snapshot of the previous week than a prediction of the next week.
* The first depth chart of the season fills a somewhat different niche as it's the first one, but the same impulses for secrecy and conservatism will apply. It's possible that if there are non-major injuries the program wouldn't necessarily use this depth chart to convey that, which is to say the depth chart could include a player or two the coaches feel deserves a spot on the depth chart but may not play or may be limited against Colgate. I have no reason to believe that's the case here and by all accounts we're going into the season very healthy, it's just that that's something we've occasionally seen in the past.
* Given that depth charts often lag a week and this is the first of the season, it's notable to see so many true freshman. A more conservative thing to do would be to let the true freshman "earn" it by keeping them off the first one, playing them against Colgate, and then having the USC depth chart reflect their ascendance. The choice to include Daniels, Reuben, Roush, Moi, and Bailey (especially crowning him a starter) indicates something interesting. It's a bit hard to know what that is. We're not playing games here? Last season was a miserable failure and returning players are on notice that jobs aren't safe and seniority won't dictate playing time? The depth chart is weak and this says more about the lack of QB and DL options and the lack of quality for Bowman and Raines than it does about the freshmen? In any case it was interesting to see so many true freshmen.
* As there clearly isn't any compunction against including true freshmen, the exclusion of Harris or any true freshmen DBs is somewhat disappointing. Barrow ahead of Harris is a bit of a down arrow on Harris, though what we see/don't see Saturday from these two will be the more interesting data point.
* Here are the non-true freshmen scholarship players out of sight and out of mind: Coco Lukrich (edit: now see the note on him not being on the official roster....interesting), Colby Bowman, Jayson Raines, James Pogorelc (out for the year it seems based on the tea leaves), Jack Leyrer, Austin Uke, Wilfredo Aybar (out a significant amount of time though severity less clear/publicly acknowledged than Pogorelc), Ese Dubre, Nicolas Toomer, Jaden Slocum, Brandon Jones, Alaka'i Gilman, Caleb Ellis, Omari Porter, Mitch Leigber.
* The OL and the injured players have obvious explanations and one shouldn't rule out future contribution. For others, this is a red flag. I'm particularly despondent about Dubre. We're going to have gaping holes at ILB a few months from now and the true freshmen class there looks horrible. Dubre not being far enough along to either save Sinclair from being listed twice (when that happens it seems like a straightforward/honest statement is being made) or to pass former walk-on Jorgensen is concerning. Dubre is only in his second year so I'm not giving up, but the apparent down arrows I've been perceiving on Dubre bum me out.
* Given the position switch, Uke is a wild card. Nonetheless, this is obviously a down arrow. Jaxson Moi hasn't been practicing DL at Stanford any longer than Uke has. At bare minimum, Moi's history with the position outweighs Uke's year advantage and significant strength. Again, Uke is a wild card so we shouldn't rule anything out, but anybody expecting a starter-level player should note this exclusion.
RE: Stanford vs. Colgate depth chart - msqueri - 08-30-2022
* The DB depth chart is the strangest thing in the whole thing. If we're deep there why double up every single backup and two of the starters. This seems gratuitous. I think Occam's Razor is that it's just honest. We're going into the season with a top seven, four to six will play at a given time, and if there are injuries these are the seven that will be shuffled around. Toomer, Slocum, Jones, Gilman, Ellis, Porter, Leigber, or true freshmen only get to play in garbage time or if there are numerous injuries. Don't hold me to that literally, as depth charts aren't set in stone and we could see Toomer/Slocum/Jones get in for a few plays earlier in the games, but this choice to only list seven when we easily could have listed ten is notable. Personally, I think this is really disrespectful to Toomer in particular (333 snaps last year) and may be suggestive of injury unavailability or dog house. Why list STM twice (especially given STM's fragility) unless you really want to make a comparative statement?
* I think the burial of Bowman and Raines speaks loudly about them but let's look on the positive side: Reuben being listed ahead of numerous scholarship players is something only Bailey can claim in the true freshmen class. Good for them.
* Yeah, Bailey....wow, true freshman listed first on the depth chart. Has that ever happened under Shaw? I don't think so. Shaw's record for Day One snaps by a true freshman are 36 snaps by Connor Wedington, 35 snaps by Walker Little, and 32 snaps by Wayne Lyons (obviously none a linebacker/edge player.....the record for that is James Vaughters' 16 snaps). Bailey has a chance to break new ground. Looking back at the depth charts I can find, Wedington was listed as backing up Trenton Irwin with Jay Tyler as the other starter (hahahahahahaha). In reality, Irwin and Tyler did indeed start that game but Irwin played 41 snaps, Donald Stewart played 39, Wedington played 36, and Tyler played 25. That same game, Walker Little was listed as the backup RT behind Devery Hamilton and Hamilton did indeed get the start as well as more snaps (43 to Little's 35). Against San Jose State in 2011, Lyons was not listed ahead of Johnson Bademosi or Barry Browning, did not start ahead of them in actuality, and did not get more snaps, though Lyons and Browning had identical (32) snaps). It looks like Bailey is heading into the season as our most significant defensive true freshman since Wayne Lyons, which was a long time ago, and it seems distinctly possible Bailey will have an even bigger role. Will this be the first time since the 2007 UCLA game (Owen Marecic) that a true freshman plays from the first snap of his career?
* The player on the depth chart who most needs to watch his back seems pretty clearly to be Bradley Archer. Our backup tight end is listed as Archer OR Lukas Ungar OR Sam Roush. That's a mess, and I think suggestive of Roush leap-frogging the older players sooner rather than later. If I had seen this a few days ago I may have put Roush in my top 35 players. True freshman playing time is unusual for a tight end under Coach Turner.
* I've commented on it several times, but to me the story of August is Jake Hornibrook leap-frogging Barrett Miller. This is not what the data points of the last three years would have suggested, and to me is the juiciest bit of who's up/who's down palace intrigue on the roster. It's perhaps a sign of Heffernan putting his stamp on the room. More speculatively and even more intriguingly, it very well could be a leading indicator that for cohesion reasons we are preparing for Miller to be the right tackle and it would be more disruptive to require Nugent to develop chemistry with a shifting duo of left guards, to require Miller to start the season on the left side of the line and then move to the right, and to have two new starting positions rather than one. This could be a really interesting indication that Hinton's days starting are numbered. I think I'll guess that Hinton will split time with Miller at RT against Colgate. The benign to Hinton explanation could be that we thought he played better at the end of last season when he was splitting time (there's some evidence of this from the Oregon State and Notre Dame games) and the more nefarious to Hinton explanation could be that we're preparing for Miller to take Hinton's job.
* I cannot overstate enough how disappointing it is to me to see Aaron Armitage third string. This ranks with the Dubre and Harris omissions as something that raised my eyebrows in a discouraging way, but since Armitage actually played last year and the defense was ostentatiously changed in a way tailor-made for him more than literally any other player on the roster, this is so disappointing. As with all things depth chart related, the much more interesting data points will be what we see when the games start. Maybe Armitage will play 30 snaps against Colgate and this depth chart will have proven to be subterfuge. I think it's probably more likely that DiCosmo had a better camp and, perhaps, DiCosmo himself is a player for whom the scheme change helps a lot (a Sam linebacker?). Armitage and even more so Keneley played enough last year relative to age that one would have penciled them in for a very significant role. Keneley's placement on the depth chart is such that a significant role may indeed be in the cards. But the depth chart is either lying or Armitage is buried. The fifth or sixth edge player is not a significant player.
* I'll end with maybe the most interesting revelation of all: how the coaches are thinking (or at least some indication of that/what they'd like us to perceive) about finding playing time for the extremely established safeties. Fields at nickel back and McGill at safety will be counter intuitive to many fans given that Fields played safety at Oklahoma and McGill has predominantly been a nickel back at Stanford. We have had some inklings of this, most notably a Fields interview in which he talked about playing more "man-to-man" and "moving around" being the biggest scheme difference between his Oklahoma experience (read: he was free safety at Oklahoma and Akina is playing him at nickel and/or strong safety). I don't know exactly what to make of this but am very interested by it. One explanation could be that Fields is faster than McGill and we are trying to put Fields in more of a coverage role (quickness/change of direction seems even more important for nickel back and I don't know who is more athletic in that sense). Another could be that the nickel doesn't play every play and McGill is the heart and soul of the defense as well as one of its top playmakers....not somebody who is coming off the field. And there are probably several other explanations. In any case, it's interesting to basically change both of their positions. Finally, it's always possible this is much ado about nothing, either because the safety/nickel positions end up pretty interchangeable or because it all just will vary game-by-game depending on opponent and game plan. Heck, for all I know against Colgate maybe Fields will be a spy on the running QB. All of which to say: depth charts are fun to dissect but aren't dispositive and what we see when the games count is what matters. 104.5 hours to go!
RE: Stanford vs. Colgate depth chart - msqueri - 08-30-2022
Bonus (because I had so many thoughts I forgot special teams entirely!): I find the return specialist depth chart almost utterly unhelpful and difficult to parse. Both have three options listed. Somewhere between unserious and indecisive. My guess is we like the idea of Smith and/or Filkins getting return opportunities to showcase them and pad their stats and also that we are somewhat unclear internally on who the best options are. Farrell brings the speed. Filkins brings the proven punt returner production (why not just have him be the punt returner? Well, given our depth chart and his injury history we're probably terrified of injuries). Smith brings....I don't know, some wiggle?
This is a place where the RB transfers and our laughable RB depth chart bites us in the butt. It is certainly the case that Filkins and/or Smith should be return specialists, but by necessity we have to be scared of our own shadow a bit.
It's going to be damaging for us if Barrow and/or Harris aren't serviceable as a) we'll probably need one of them given the reality of injuries and b) we are hamstringing ourselves if we don't play the best return specialists.
RE: Stanford vs. Colgate depth chart - McKenwood - 08-30-2022
(08-30-2022, 09:00 AM)needle Wrote: Tried tracking the Stanford transfers.
No SC depth chart
Peat one of three co-starters at Missouri
Neither Reid nor Petrucci on the two-deep for Utah
Heimuli’s position not listed on BYU’s depth chart
Ryan Johnson started for Northwestern - got a sack but no other stats.
Josh Pakola and Andres Fox not listed on Fresno State's two deep.
RE: Stanford vs. Colgate depth chart - SamuelMcF - 08-30-2022
(08-30-2022, 09:07 AM)McKenwood Wrote:(08-30-2022, 09:00 AM)needle Wrote: Tried tracking the Stanford transfers.
No SC depth chart
Peat one of three co-starters at Missouri
Neither Reid nor Petrucci on the two-deep for Utah
Heimuli’s position not listed on BYU’s depth chart
Ryan Johnson started for Northwestern - got a sack but no other stats.
Josh Pakola and Andres Fox not listed on Fresno State's two deep.
Johnson did not start, and had 26 snaps - the fewest of NW's main DL rotation. He graded out not bad though.
Kyle Petrucci was in a serious skiing(?) accident and medically retired.
Reid not on Utah's 2-deep has to be the most surprising of all of these. What a massive bummer for him (or indication of just how much more talented Utah's defense is than ours). Although his younger brother is starting, so he gets to be on the team with him. He's also listed at 6'0", 2 inches shorter than on our roster.
Second most surprising is Nathaniel Peat only at KR3 for Mizzou. He's a good kick returner. Seems like he was injured during camp.
RE: Stanford vs. Colgate depth chart - msqueri - 08-30-2022
Thanks to you both for the updates on our transfers. Looking forward to following all this season and will be rooting for them.
Ryan Johnson getting a sack in a high profile nationally televised win over a Power Five team is a big deal. DL don't typically fill up stat sheets so by itself a sack is always notable. On the other hand, Johnson had 26 snaps - notable but not a major focal point. That made him DL2 but there were four edge defenders with more snaps. This could be a preview of the Stanford defense Franklin, Moi, Buckey, etc. may play less than fans assume as "edge" guys constitute the bulk of our defensive front.
P.S. I see SamuelMcF unsurprisingly beat me to the punch. I too will be massively disappointed if Reid isn't a significant defender for Utah. That would speak so many volumes about Stanford vs. Utah it would fill a library. I'd be so disappointed for Reid and for us. He could potentially be our best defensive player (and certainly top four)!
RE: Stanford vs. Colgate depth chart - TrumpCard - 08-30-2022
Thanks, Matt, for mining the depth chart at a level I could not have done. Lots of interesting tidbits in your post.
Also, thanks to those following the transfers. The RBs, Johnson, and Reid all seem like guys who would’ve played for Stanford this year. Bummer that they all chose to leave. I hope Shaw can regain some of his luster and the locker room some of its cohesion so this phenomenon doesn’t become routine.
RE: Stanford vs. Colgate depth chart - ADPinWDC - 08-30-2022
Quote:* I'll end with maybe the most interesting revelation of all: how the coaches are thinking (or at least some indication of that/what they'd like us to perceive) about finding playing time for the extremely established safeties. Fields at nickel back and McGill at safety will be counter intuitive to many fans given that Fields played safety at Oklahoma and McGill has predominantly been a nickel back at Stanford. We have had some inklings of this, most notably a Fields interview in which he talked about playing more "man-to-man" and "moving around" being the biggest scheme difference between his Oklahoma experience (read: he was free safety at Oklahoma and Akina is playing him at nickel and/or strong safety). I don't know exactly what to make of this but am very interested by it. One explanation could be that Fields is faster than McGill and we are trying to put Fields in more of a coverage role (quickness/change of direction seems even more important for nickel back and I don't know who is more athletic in that sense). Another could be that the nickel doesn't play every play and McGill is the heart and soul of the defense as well as one of its top playmakers....not somebody who is coming off the field. And there are probably several other explanations. In any case, it's interesting to basically change both of their positions. Finally, it's always possible this is much ado about nothing, either because the safety/nickel positions end up pretty interchangeable or because it all just will vary game-by-game depending on opponent and game plan. Heck, for all I know against Colgate maybe Fields will be a spy on the running QB. All of which to say: depth charts are fun to dissect but aren't dispositive and what we see when the games count is what matters. 104.5 hours to go!
"Fields will be a spy on the running QB"... YES.
And, I think Shaw / Anderson want Fields more in the mix, more tackles, in a 2-5-4 system with Edge Rushers. Or 3-5-3 on 3rd & Long.
We can play nickel-back on MOST downs. I could see Fields playing like Justin Reid; a lot of range.
AND, when we get to $UC next week against superstar dual threat QB Caleb Williams, we will need a spy on EVERY down.
C.Williams at Troy could be a second coming of Marcus Mariota in a Brush-head outfit.
Colgate is a tune-up for Troyens.
RE: Stanford vs. Colgate depth chart - SamuelMcF - 08-30-2022
My bad on Gabe Reid - he is currently injured and projected to easily crack the two-deep upon his return.
From a recent interview with him:
“Gabe is adjusting to a somewhat new position on the defensive side.
“From the few practices that we’ve had from my exposure to the playbook, I think it’s a lot more playing fast,” he said.
“Defensive end compared to outside linebacker, there’s a lot more dropping and understanding route concepts. ... Here, dropping is more secondary to getting after the quarterback, which I’m excited about.”
”
The bolded comments were echoed by Lance Anderson when discussing our switch to a 4-3. Another indication that this switch should've been instituted years ago. Utah has run a 4-3 forever, and Reid is listed as a DE (what we call Edge, but it's the same thing). He is also now 10lbs heavier.
RE: Stanford vs. Colgate depth chart - BostonCard - 08-30-2022
Matt, I think you wrung out more water out of that stone of a depth chart than I thought possible. Color me impressed.
BC
RE: Stanford vs. Colgate depth chart - Spiny_Norman - 09-02-2022
Stanford was healthy earlier in the week and now they are less healthy.
[twitter]https://twitter.com/TroyClardy/status/1565735706130952192[/twitter]
RE: Stanford vs. Colgate depth chart - newguy - 09-02-2022
(09-02-2022, 04:16 PM)Spiny_Norman Wrote: Stanford was healthy earlier in the week and now they are less healthy.
[twitter]https://twitter.com/TroyClardy/status/1565735706130952192[/twitter]
if he can't play against U$C, then i will be concerned about McKee's protection.
RE: Stanford vs. Colgate depth chart - TrumpCard - 09-02-2022
Bummer!
With Hornibrook and Rogers both apparently ahead of Miller, I think it’s likely that Miller is either injured or penciled in at RT.
RE: Stanford vs. Colgate depth chart - 82lsju - 09-02-2022
(09-02-2022, 05:22 PM)TrumpCard Wrote: Bummer!
With Hornibrook and Rogers both apparently ahead of Miller, I think it’s likely that Miller is either injured or penciled in at RT.
Miller is on the depth chart from earlier this week as the back-up at LT and LG and now apparently RG
https://gostanford.com/documents/2022/8/29/2022_Stanford_Football_Depth_Chart_-_01_Colgate.pdf
RE: Stanford vs. Colgate depth chart - Phogge - 09-02-2022
Injured at practice? Practice man!