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OT: NLRB Takes Action Against U$C, Pac-12, & NCAA - newguy - 12-15-2022

if this belongs in another thread, then by all means, move it there.
from ESPN:  https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/35259868/nlrb-pursue-unlawful-labor-practices-usc-pac-12-ncaa

RE: OT: NLRB Takes Action Against U$C, Pac-12, & NCAA - martyup - 12-15-2022

(12-15-2022, 08:46 PM)newguy Wrote:  if this belongs in another thread, then by all means, move it there.
from ESPN:  https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/35259868/nlrb-pursue-unlawful-labor-practices-usc-pac-12-ncaa

College athletes want to be treated like employees?  This is a case where the cure is worse than the disease.  I wonder how they are going to feel when they are terminated by their employer.

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RE: OT: NLRB Takes Action Against U$C, Pac-12, & NCAA - Beeg_Dawg - 12-16-2022

Can't see how this ends any way but badly for athletes.  Scholarships would become taxable? The law of unintended consequences throws a long shadow. College sports is my last refuge, after giving up on baseball, the NBA and mostly on the NFL. 

I feel like with NIL, transfer portal and now this, the SEC and Big10 become farm leagues for the NFL.  Everyone else starts scrapping athletic programs and college sports goes the way of the covered wagon and steam locomotives.

RE: OT: NLRB Takes Action Against U$C, Pac-12, & NCAA - M T - 12-16-2022

(12-16-2022, 03:45 PM)Beeg_Dawg Wrote:  Everyone else starts scrapping athletic programs and college sports goes the way of the covered wagon and steam locomotives.

There are many schools that have athletic programs without any big football or basketball program to fund them.  Maybe the teams don't fly on charter planes every week to a game half-way across the country, but student athletes still train and compete and  win and lose.

I went to such a school. (Ever been to a football game with literally 100,000 empty seats?)  The events were part of student life.  Athletes were just students that played a sport.  Yet, when I was good enough to compete at Nationals, the school was able to send me (and teammates) to compete half-way across the country.

Maybe the big stadiums and the big gambling pools will go the way of the locomotive.  I believe college athletes will continue to compete against other college athletes.

RE: OT: NLRB Takes Action Against U$C, Pac-12, & NCAA - newguy - 12-16-2022

(12-16-2022, 03:45 PM)Beeg_Dawg Wrote:  Can't see how this ends any way but badly for athletes.  Scholarships would become taxable? The law of unintended consequences throws a long shadow. College sports is my last refuge, after giving up on baseball, the NBA and mostly on the NFL. 

I feel like with NIL, transfer portal and now this, the SEC and Big10 become farm leagues for the NFL.  Everyone else starts scrapping athletic programs and college sports goes the way of the covered wagon and steam locomotives.

i haven't given up hope yet, but that's basically how i feel.
when a presidential candidate was sent packing because of a sex scandal in 1984, one of his top aides quit the campaign, went home, and watched only sports for a week.  if that happened today, he would likely be inundated by reporting that belonged more on a cable news show than a sports network.

RE: OT: NLRB Takes Action Against U$C, Pac-12, & NCAA - lex24 - 12-17-2022

(12-16-2022, 03:45 PM)Beeg_Dawg Wrote:  Can't see how this ends any way but badly for athletes.  Scholarships would become taxable? The law of unintended consequences throws a long shadow. College sports is my last refuge, after giving up on baseball, the NBA and mostly on the NFL. 

I feel like with NIL, transfer portal and now this, the SEC and Big10 become farm leagues for the NFL.  Everyone else starts scrapping athletic programs and college sports goes the way of the covered wagon and steam locomotives.

Agree. This will end College Sports.  Club teams…… Because if they are classified as employees, the next legal play will be class action wage and hour lawsuits. Then it’s done. So, “be careful what you wish for.”

RE: OT: NLRB Takes Action Against U$C, Pac-12, & NCAA - cardcrimson - 12-17-2022

(12-17-2022, 10:47 AM)lex24 Wrote:  
(12-16-2022, 03:45 PM)Beeg_Dawg Wrote:  Can't see how this ends any way but badly for athletes.  Scholarships would become taxable? The law of unintended consequences throws a long shadow. College sports is my last refuge, after giving up on baseball, the NBA and mostly on the NFL. 

I feel like with NIL, transfer portal and now this, the SEC and Big10 become farm leagues for the NFL.  Everyone else starts scrapping athletic programs and college sports goes the way of the covered wagon and steam locomotives.

Agree. This will end College Sports.  Club teams…… Because if they are classified as employees, the next legal play will be class action wage and hour lawsuits.  Then it’s done.  So, “be careful what you wish for.”

The PAGA lawyers are already lining up. No way CA athletic programs will be able to contend with all the details of employment law in the state, and therefore lawsuits will abound.

RE: OT: NLRB Takes Action Against U$C, Pac-12, & NCAA - Bampa - 12-17-2022

(12-16-2022, 03:45 PM)Beeg_Dawg Wrote:  Can't see how this ends any way but badly for athletes.  Scholarships would become taxable? The law of unintended consequences throws a long shadow. College sports is my last refuge, after giving up on baseball, the NBA and mostly on the NFL. 

I feel like with NIL, transfer portal and now this, the SEC and Big10 become farm leagues for the NFL.  Everyone else starts scrapping athletic programs and college sports goes the way of the covered wagon and steam locomotives.


 + 1000

RE: OT: NLRB Takes Action Against U$C, Pac-12, & NCAA - Beeg_Dawg - 12-17-2022

(12-16-2022, 06:14 PM)M T Wrote:  
(12-16-2022, 03:45 PM)Beeg_Dawg Wrote:  Everyone else starts scrapping athletic programs and college sports goes the way of the covered wagon and steam locomotives.



I went to such a school. (Ever been to a football game with literally 100,000 empty seats?) 

Well maybe close.  Stanford home games in 2005?

RE: OT: NLRB Takes Action Against U$C, Pac-12, & NCAA - newguy - 12-17-2022

(12-17-2022, 08:59 PM)Beeg_Dawg Wrote:  
(12-16-2022, 06:14 PM)M T Wrote:  
(12-16-2022, 03:45 PM)Beeg_Dawg Wrote:  Everyone else starts scrapping athletic programs and college sports goes the way of the covered wagon and steam locomotives.


I went to such a school. (Ever been to a football game with literally 100,000 empty seats?) 

Well maybe close.  Stanford home games in 2005?

i see what you did there.

RE: OT: NLRB Takes Action Against U$C, Pac-12, & NCAA - Giants - 12-18-2022

(12-17-2022, 12:12 PM)cardcrimson Wrote:  
(12-17-2022, 10:47 AM)lex24 Wrote:  
(12-16-2022, 03:45 PM)Beeg_Dawg Wrote:  Can't see how this ends any way but badly for athletes.  Scholarships would become taxable? The law of unintended consequences throws a long shadow. College sports is my last refuge, after giving up on baseball, the NBA and mostly on the NFL. 

I feel like with NIL, transfer portal and now this, the SEC and Big10 become farm leagues for the NFL.  Everyone else starts scrapping athletic programs and college sports goes the way of the covered wagon and steam locomotives.

Agree. This will end College Sports.  Club teams…… Because if they are classified as employees, the next legal play will be class action wage and hour lawsuits.  Then it’s done.  So, “be careful what you wish for.”

The PAGA lawyers are already lining up. No way CA athletic programs will be able to contend with all the details of employment law in the state, and therefore lawsuits will abound.

The NLRB action only impacts private schools. 

Should a ruling in favor of classifying college athletes as employees occur, I foresee a rapid move towards unionization, thus leading to collective bargaining. This would address any wage and hour concerns.

RE: OT: NLRB Takes Action Against U$C, Pac-12, & NCAA - Beeg_Dawg - 12-18-2022

(12-18-2022, 12:36 AM)Giants Wrote:  
(12-17-2022, 12:12 PM)cardcrimson Wrote:  
(12-17-2022, 10:47 AM)lex24 Wrote:  
(12-16-2022, 03:45 PM)Beeg_Dawg Wrote:  Can't see how this ends any way but badly for athletes.  Scholarships would become taxable? The law of unintended consequences throws a long shadow. College sports is my last refuge, after giving up on baseball, the NBA and mostly on the NFL. 

I feel like with NIL, transfer portal and now this, the SEC and Big10 become farm leagues for the NFL.  Everyone else starts scrapping athletic programs and college sports goes the way of the covered wagon and steam locomotives.

Agree. This will end College Sports.  Club teams…… Because if they are classified as employees, the next legal play will be class action wage and hour lawsuits.  Then it’s done.  So, “be careful what you wish for.”

The PAGA lawyers are already lining up. No way CA athletic programs will be able to contend with all the details of employment law in the state, and therefore lawsuits will abound.

The NLRB action only impacts private schools. 

Should a ruling in favor of classifying college athletes as employees occur, I foresee a rapid move towards unionization, thus leading to collective bargaining. This would address any wage and hour concerns.

1) Not sure what to make of the claim student athletes are employees of USC, PAC12 and NCAA.  Can an employee perform the same work at the same time for three employers? 
2) How is it possible to exclude public schools in this?  Is there some additional magic that makes you an employee of a private school but not  public schools?

Imagine the overtime pay for traveling to all those east coast games.....:)

RE: OT: NLRB Takes Action Against U$C, Pac-12, & NCAA - cardcrimson - 12-18-2022

(12-18-2022, 12:36 AM)Giants Wrote:  The NLRB action only impacts private schools. 

Should a ruling in favor of classifying college athletes as employees occur, I foresee a rapid move towards unionization, thus leading to collective bargaining. This would address any wage and hour concerns.

Wouldn't come close to addressing wage and hour concerns, unfortunately. California laws supersede negotiated contracts and the provisions within. Client who ran a large, unionized manufacturing facility was hit with not one, but two PAGA claims. One, they didn't have a full address on the check stub (I think they were missing the zip code). The other, the union negotiated contract called for starting the shift at 7am, with a lunch at 12pm. That violated state law requiring lunch to be within 5 hours of the start of the day--they were off by one second. The combined lawsuits were for over $4 million. 

Just wait for unionized athletes with cell phones usage, required training table, required conditioning, transportation, etc etc etc. It will be a nightmare of compliance with the ridiculous amount of employment laws in the state. I'm sure studying will end up being paid for as well, as keeping a certain course load and GPA is a requirement to play. Can't wait. Will be a hoot!

RE: OT: NLRB Takes Action Against U$C, Pac-12, & NCAA - lex24 - 12-19-2022

I
(12-18-2022, 12:01 PM)cardcrimson Wrote:  
(12-18-2022, 12:36 AM)Giants Wrote:  The NLRB action only impacts private schools. 

Should a ruling in favor of classifying college athletes as employees occur, I foresee a rapid move towards unionization, thus leading to collective bargaining. This would address any wage and hour concerns.

Wouldn't come close to addressing wage and hour concerns, unfortunately. California laws supersede negotiated contracts and the provisions within. Client who ran a large, unionized manufacturing facility was hit with not one, but two PAGA claims. One, they didn't have a full address on the check stub (I think they were missing the zip code). The other, the union negotiated contract called for starting the shift at 7am, with a lunch at 12pm. That violated state law requiring lunch to be within 5 hours of the start of the day--they were off by one second. The combined lawsuits were for over $4 million. 

Just wait for unionized athletes with cell phones usage, required training table, required conditioning, transportation, etc etc etc. It will be a nightmare of compliance with the ridiculous amount of employment laws in the state. I'm sure studying will end up being paid for as well, as keeping a certain course load and GPA is a requirement to play. Can't wait. Will be a hoot!

Won’t matter. Cause it won’t happen. They will just end it.  Also, why would there be any different status legally for non revenue producing sports/athletes?

RE: OT: NLRB Takes Action Against U$C, Pac-12, & NCAA - cardcrimson - 12-19-2022

(12-19-2022, 08:00 AM)lex24 Wrote:  I
(12-18-2022, 12:01 PM)cardcrimson Wrote:  
(12-18-2022, 12:36 AM)Giants Wrote:  The NLRB action only impacts private schools. 

Should a ruling in favor of classifying college athletes as employees occur, I foresee a rapid move towards unionization, thus leading to collective bargaining. This would address any wage and hour concerns.

Wouldn't come close to addressing wage and hour concerns, unfortunately. California laws supersede negotiated contracts and the provisions within. Client who ran a large, unionized manufacturing facility was hit with not one, but two PAGA claims. One, they didn't have a full address on the check stub (I think they were missing the zip code). The other, the union negotiated contract called for starting the shift at 7am, with a lunch at 12pm. That violated state law requiring lunch to be within 5 hours of the start of the day--they were off by one second. The combined lawsuits were for over $4 million. 

Just wait for unionized athletes with cell phones usage, required training table, required conditioning, transportation, etc etc etc. It will be a nightmare of compliance with the ridiculous amount of employment laws in the state. I'm sure studying will end up being paid for as well, as keeping a certain course load and GPA is a requirement to play. Can't wait. Will be a hoot!

Won’t matter. Cause it won’t happen. They will just end it.  Also, why would there be any different status legally for non revenue producing sports/athletes?

There wouldn't be any difference for non-revenue athletes. They'll get paid, too. The compliance costs will be immense as will the potential for litigation. College sports will end, or at least will be a shell of what they are today.

RE: OT: NLRB Takes Action Against U$C, Pac-12, & NCAA - Giants - 12-19-2022

(12-18-2022, 12:01 PM)cardcrimson Wrote:  
(12-18-2022, 12:36 AM)Giants Wrote:  The NLRB action only impacts private schools. 

Should a ruling in favor of classifying college athletes as employees occur, I foresee a rapid move towards unionization, thus leading to collective bargaining. This would address any wage and hour concerns.

Wouldn't come close to addressing wage and hour concerns, unfortunately. California laws supersede negotiated contracts and the provisions within. Client who ran a large, unionized manufacturing facility was hit with not one, but two PAGA claims. One, they didn't have a full address on the check stub (I think they were missing the zip code). The other, the union negotiated contract called for starting the shift at 7am, with a lunch at 12pm. That violated state law requiring lunch to be within 5 hours of the start of the day--they were off by one second. The combined lawsuits were for over $4 million. 

Just wait for unionized athletes with cell phones usage, required training table, required conditioning, transportation, etc etc etc. It will be a nightmare of compliance with the ridiculous amount of employment laws in the state. I'm sure studying will end up being paid for as well, as keeping a certain course load and GPA is a requirement to play. Can't wait. Will be a hoot!

Waivers can be obtained from the state to address wage and hour issues.  For example, the organized staff at my employer wanted to combine their break time with their meal break, we worked with the union to obtain a waiver from the state to allow them to do so.  

If I didn’t learn anything else in the years I worked in labor relations, it’s “the devil’s in the detail”.  There is nothing that can’t be addressed if you have a good relationship with the union and state regulators.

RE: OT: NLRB Takes Action Against U$C, Pac-12, & NCAA - M T - 12-19-2022

(12-19-2022, 10:01 AM)cardcrimson Wrote:  There wouldn't be any difference for non-revenue athletes. They'll get paid, too. The compliance costs will be immense as will the potential for litigation. College sports will end, or at least will be a shell of what they are today.

If that is true for non-revenue athletes,  then I guess it is true for Menlo College, Foothill College and all the Division II, III, and NAIA schools and whatever other leagues there may be for JCs.

RE: OT: NLRB Takes Action Against U$C, Pac-12, & NCAA - BostonCard - 12-19-2022

(12-19-2022, 11:22 AM)M T Wrote:  
(12-19-2022, 10:01 AM)cardcrimson Wrote:  There wouldn't be any difference for non-revenue athletes. They'll get paid, too. The compliance costs will be immense as will the potential for litigation. College sports will end, or at least will be a shell of what they are today.

If that is true for non-revenue athletes,  then I guess it is true for Menlo College, Foothill College and all the Division II, III, and NAIA schools and whatever other leagues there may be for JCs.

Hell, keep going and even club sports would be counted, let alone high school sports (some high schools in Texas probably generate more revenue than Stanford) and even Little League (which has a television contract with ESPN).  I think it will be hard to devise a limiting principle, on when an athletic activity becomes a job, though it would have helped had the NCAA and its member institutions not acted like profit maximizing corporations.

BC