Screwing it up incrementally - Printable Version
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Screwing it up incrementally - BostonCard - 08-15-2023
Nice turn of phrase by ND's AD (JD 80);
“We were screwing it up incrementally,” Swarbrick says, “and pursuing legal strategies that were just mindless to me. I could go on all day about how silly that was.”
Good piece from Ivan Maisel in the Stanford Magazine as to how we got here (with some quotes from Muir, Vanderveer, and Shaw):
https://stanfordmag.org/contents/throwing-out-the-rule-book?mkt_tok=ODg0LUZTQi0zMDcAAAGNmkMzZosfpNy2pjvs38KNLKu45Rm7AURqQQryP4wFVe2XMHobFhMagb-CLmNNkahOndecP8KkBYy05VdPEDGISJ3KnsnAnurdeG8HGFTFwWI
I think Swarbrick is right:
Quote:The differences in philosophy among schools may manifest in a breakup of NCAA Division I, the highest level of intercollegiate athletics. “We probably need two models for college sports in the United States,” says Notre Dame athletics director Jack Swarbrick, JD ’80. He sees a professionalized, minor-league model at one end of the spectrum and an Ivy League–style integration of athletics into the university at the other. “I think different students will pick different models and schools will pick different models.”
I know I am in the minority here, but I favor the latter model for Stanford. I don't want to watch minor league football that happens to be affiliated with a college. I realize that it is going to be a problem for the non-revenue sports and it will sadden me to lose that model at Stanford, but a large share of revenue from football sports will probably eventually go to pay players, so I think the non-revenue sports will be screwed no matter what.
One thing I disagree with is Muir's take:
Quote:Moreover, “college sports have allowed thousands and thousands of young people this chance for upward mobility,” he says. “And students have taken full advantage of it. We think that’s a good thing. If we go to any other model we’re talking about here, they might not get that chance.”
While that is true in individual cases, on the whole collegiate athletics at private institutions like Stanford tends to favor the wealthy. There was a recent study (https://opportunityinsights.org/paper/collegeadmissions/ and https://opportunityinsights.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/07/CollegeAdmissions_Paper.pdf) that showed that "24% of the admissions advantage for students from top 1% families [in income] can be explained by the recruitment of athletes, who tend to come from higher-income families." While football and basketball are pretty diverse, the "country club" sports are referred to as such for a reason.
BC
RE: Screwing it up incrementally - 82lsju - 08-15-2023
(08-15-2023, 06:33 PM)BostonCard Wrote: Good piece from Ivan Maisel in the Stanford Magazine as to how we got here (with some quotes from Muir, Vanderveer, and Shaw):
https://stanfordmag.org/contents/throwing-out-the-rule-book?mkt_tok=ODg0LUZTQi0zMDcAAAGNmkMzZosfpNy2pjvs38KNLKu45Rm7AURqQQryP4wFVe2XMHobFhMagb-CLmNNkahOndecP8KkBYy05VdPEDGISJ3KnsnAnurdeG8HGFTFwWI
article previously reported on the Cardboard in Sept 2022....
https://thecardboard.org/board/showthread.php?tid=23428&highlight=maisel
RE: Screwing it up incrementally - BostonCard - 08-15-2023
Missed it the first time; I saw it in today’s Stanford Loop, so I assumed it was a recent article, but in retrospect, the lack of comment about the evaporation of what was left of the pac-12 should have been a tell.
Other links of interest in that newsletter (some may have been covered):
Pat Forde on the effect on Olympic Sports (not that he’s an unbiased observer as the father of a Stanford swimmer and Olympic medalist): https://www.si.com/college/2023/08/06/potential-power-five-exclusion-stanford-cal-team-usa-olympics?mkt_tok=ODg0LUZTQi0zMDcAAAGNmkMzZpYvKgceUbhq017rJfeaEkdSABnLNMPuqC1KJQ6xNRxIfmCb5RqVo-CRxxW8lbGRAvNjFcsyiVsjjdrMcp1tPG32RZ5l57iddZcptJ4 (sorry, Sam, it’s in SI, but Forde is a reputable writer) and it has some choice quotes from AD’s:
Quote:“We must find a home for Stanford and Cal,” one prominent administrator with no ties to either school tells SI. “This is shameful.”
And/but he notes there are no good options. His one suggestion (using the endowment to tide things over) is debunked here: https://stanfordmag.org/contents/why-you-cant-just-use-the-endowment-for-that?mkt_tok=ODg0LUZTQi0zMDcAAAGNmkMzZgC-5hoamNFIbkVsKk4_pD93wWraqsu1cSDiPGypSkqNnsMQEdZDhnS1VbhtbweVecPPiZaAYQKMiCHYE0Z3UzroqKnkpC1XOeNwJrE
Everything else (find out T Boone Pickins) seems like wishcastung.
BC
RE: Screwing it up incrementally - SamuelMcF - 08-16-2023
(08-15-2023, 08:13 PM)BostonCard Wrote: Missed it the first time; I saw it in today’s Stanford Loop, so I assumed it was a recent article, but in retrospect, the lack of comment about the evaporation of what was left of the pac-12 should have been a tell.
Other links of interest in that newsletter (some may have been covered):
Pat Forde on the effect on Olympic Sports (not that he’s an unbiased observer as the father of a Stanford swimmer and Olympic medalist): https://www.si.com/college/2023/08/06/potential-power-five-exclusion-stanford-cal-team-usa-olympics?mkt_tok=ODg0LUZTQi0zMDcAAAGNmkMzZpYvKgceUbhq017rJfeaEkdSABnLNMPuqC1KJQ6xNRxIfmCb5RqVo-CRxxW8lbGRAvNjFcsyiVsjjdrMcp1tPG32RZ5l57iddZcptJ4 (sorry, Sam, it’s in SI, but Forde is a reputable writer) and it has some choice quotes from AD’s:
Quote:“We must find a home for Stanford and Cal,” one prominent administrator with no ties to either school tells SI. “This is shameful.”
And/but he notes there are no good options. His one suggestion (using the endowment to tide things over) is debunked here: https://stanfordmag.org/contents/why-you-cant-just-use-the-endowment-for-that?mkt_tok=ODg0LUZTQi0zMDcAAAGNmkMzZgC-5hoamNFIbkVsKk4_pD93wWraqsu1cSDiPGypSkqNnsMQEdZDhnS1VbhtbweVecPPiZaAYQKMiCHYE0Z3UzroqKnkpC1XOeNwJrE
Everything else (find out T Boone Pickins) seems like wishcastung.
BC
I'm more cool with national-level/all-college-sports-level SI, which still has reputable writers (like Forde and this piece). It's the amateur-hour single-college-specific opinion blog masquerading as "journalism" that often gets things wrong, writes terribly, and provides zero additional insight that I refuse to put any stock into.
RE: Screwing it up incrementally - qwerty49 - 08-16-2023
(08-16-2023, 07:23 AM)SamuelMcF Wrote:(08-15-2023, 08:13 PM)BostonCard Wrote: Missed it the first time; I saw it in today’s Stanford Loop, so I assumed it was a recent article, but in retrospect, the lack of comment about the evaporation of what was left of the pac-12 should have been a tell.
Other links of interest in that newsletter (some may have been covered):
Pat Forde on the effect on Olympic Sports (not that he’s an unbiased observer as the father of a Stanford swimmer and Olympic medalist): https://www.si.com/college/2023/08/06/potential-power-five-exclusion-stanford-cal-team-usa-olympics?mkt_tok=ODg0LUZTQi0zMDcAAAGNmkMzZpYvKgceUbhq017rJfeaEkdSABnLNMPuqC1KJQ6xNRxIfmCb5RqVo-CRxxW8lbGRAvNjFcsyiVsjjdrMcp1tPG32RZ5l57iddZcptJ4 (sorry, Sam, it’s in SI, but Forde is a reputable writer) and it has some choice quotes from AD’s:
Quote:“We must find a home for Stanford and Cal,” one prominent administrator with no ties to either school tells SI. “This is shameful.”
And/but he notes there are no good options. His one suggestion (using the endowment to tide things over) is debunked here: https://stanfordmag.org/contents/why-you-cant-just-use-the-endowment-for-that?mkt_tok=ODg0LUZTQi0zMDcAAAGNmkMzZgC-5hoamNFIbkVsKk4_pD93wWraqsu1cSDiPGypSkqNnsMQEdZDhnS1VbhtbweVecPPiZaAYQKMiCHYE0Z3UzroqKnkpC1XOeNwJrE
Everything else (find out T Boone Pickins) seems like wishcastung.
BC
I'm more cool with national-level/all-college-sports-level SI, which still has reputable writers (like Forde and this piece). It's the amateur-hour single-college-specific opinion blog masquerading as "journalism" that often gets things wrong, writes terribly, and provides zero additional insight that I refuse to put any stock into.
I have to agree with Samuel. The local SI stuff from Kevin Borba and Jake Curtis adds very little value -- basically just clickbait headlines and a short recap quoting stuff we already saw yesterday. The only summary tends to be "what will happen? Let's wait and see." Very disappointing.
Jake Curtis wrote for the Chron and I would expect much better from him.
RE: Screwing it up incrementally - Hieronymus - 08-16-2023
(08-16-2023, 01:39 PM)qwerty49 Wrote:(08-16-2023, 07:23 AM)SamuelMcF Wrote:(08-15-2023, 08:13 PM)BostonCard Wrote: Missed it the first time; I saw it in today’s Stanford Loop, so I assumed it was a recent article, but in retrospect, the lack of comment about the evaporation of what was left of the pac-12 should have been a tell.
Other links of interest in that newsletter (some may have been covered):
Pat Forde on the effect on Olympic Sports (not that he’s an unbiased observer as the father of a Stanford swimmer and Olympic medalist): https://www.si.com/college/2023/08/06/potential-power-five-exclusion-stanford-cal-team-usa-olympics?mkt_tok=ODg0LUZTQi0zMDcAAAGNmkMzZpYvKgceUbhq017rJfeaEkdSABnLNMPuqC1KJQ6xNRxIfmCb5RqVo-CRxxW8lbGRAvNjFcsyiVsjjdrMcp1tPG32RZ5l57iddZcptJ4 (sorry, Sam, it’s in SI, but Forde is a reputable writer) and it has some choice quotes from AD’s:
Quote:“We must find a home for Stanford and Cal,” one prominent administrator with no ties to either school tells SI. “This is shameful.”
And/but he notes there are no good options. His one suggestion (using the endowment to tide things over) is debunked here: https://stanfordmag.org/contents/why-you-cant-just-use-the-endowment-for-that?mkt_tok=ODg0LUZTQi0zMDcAAAGNmkMzZgC-5hoamNFIbkVsKk4_pD93wWraqsu1cSDiPGypSkqNnsMQEdZDhnS1VbhtbweVecPPiZaAYQKMiCHYE0Z3UzroqKnkpC1XOeNwJrE
Everything else (find out T Boone Pickins) seems like wishcastung.
BC
I'm more cool with national-level/all-college-sports-level SI, which still has reputable writers (like Forde and this piece). It's the amateur-hour single-college-specific opinion blog masquerading as "journalism" that often gets things wrong, writes terribly, and provides zero additional insight that I refuse to put any stock into.
I have to agree with Samuel. The local SI stuff from Kevin Borba and Jake Curtis adds very little value -- basically just clickbait headlines and a short recap quoting stuff we already saw yesterday. The only summary tends to be "what will happen? Let's wait and see." Very disappointing.
Jake Curtis wrote for the Chron and I would expect much better from him.
SI is mostly useless these days and has been since they went to their current model. Onion experience doesn’t mean he has any sources in the PAC or at Stanford. It just means he is a decent writer.
RE: Screwing it up incrementally - fullmetal - 08-16-2023
(08-15-2023, 06:33 PM)BostonCard Wrote: “We were screwing it up incrementally,” Swarbrick says, “and pursuing legal strategies that were just mindless to me. I could go on all day about how silly that was.”
The quote from the other thread about "gradually, then suddenly" looms large.