The end of non-revenue sports at Stanford? - Printable Version
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The end of non-revenue sports at Stanford? - StanfordMatt - 05-29-2024
The thread that TrumpCard started titled “The end of revenue sports at Stanford” has got me thinking a lot about the future of non-revenue sports at Stanford. It is the latter that I would argue are on much more shaky footing these days.
akiddoc made the point, which I won’t argue for or against, that the men’s gymnastics and women’s golf teams add more value to the reputation of Stanford than the football team. Putting aside the fact that Stanford has already shown a willingness to cut non-revenue sports in the not too distant past, the bigger problem for these sports in my view is who are they going to compete against in the years to come?
I don’t think that anyone can claim to know how college athletics will look in five years given the current turmoil. However, football in the power conferences is clearly driving the bus and that bus is going in the opposite direction from both the other sports and the other conferences. Title IX is the elephant in the room at the moment, but I don’t think it’s out of the question that the power brokers devise a system that essentially privatizes major college football, extricating it from the reach of Title IX. That certainly seems to be the goal at this point. If football literally takes their ball and money and leaves the playground, who is left to fund the other sports?
Sure, Stanford may be able to justify continuing to field teams that don’t finish in the black, but will other athletic departments feel the same way if Title IX is turned upside down by the non-inclusion of 85 football scholarships and athletic department budgets are stretched even thinner due to revenue sharing and diminished NCAA payouts? Even in a relatively major sport such as women’s volleyball, only a handful of programs turn a profit each year. Will Stanford, Nebraska and Texas play each other 10 times per season if everyone else shuts down their program? And what about the more than dozen other sports who don’t have any programs that turn a profit???
RE: The end of non-revenue sports at Stanford? - chrisk - 05-30-2024
It seems like Stanford is committed to funding the Athletic Department for the next 7 years. The Power Conferences are expecting/hoping/begging for Federal legislation in the next few years that will effectively cap their liabilities and expenses. If that doesn't happen, the top football programs will break off from the NCAA. Basketball might try to set up its own Super League, but that would be more difficult to manage because of the number of conferences and schools.
The non-revenue sports can go back to being supported as part of the academic mission of the university. In the old days, before TV revenue exploded, there were fewer sports but the ones that existed did not depend on football TV revenues for their support.
RE: The end of non-revenue sports at Stanford? - StanfordMatt - 08-22-2024
Ohio State president indicates significant cuts are on the way for non-revenue sports.
"We'll still have scholarships, we'll still have programs," Carter said. "Some of those sports may start to look and act a little bit more like a club sport, but yet compete at the Division I level and still travel and still compete."
https://www.dispatch.com/story/news/education/2024/08/21/ohio-state-ad-ross-bjork-nil-d1-sports-teams-big-ten/74893167007/
RE: The end of non-revenue sports at Stanford? - OCcardinal - 08-22-2024
(08-22-2024, 09:28 AM)StanfordMatt Wrote: Ohio State president indicates significant cuts are on the way for non-revenue sports.The college athlete compensation debate has been pitched by many as if it were an owner/employee fight. But colleges are not profitmaking institutions. So paying athletes was always going to involve a reallocation of resources among students (i.e., a student/student fight). True, some coaches and conference executives get excessive pay (a form of profit-taking), but that compensation is tied to generating revenue from the revenue sports. Those people aren't going to take pay cuts to make up for the reduced university resources for non-revenue sports. With its large sports endowment Stanford is better able to weather this storm than others, but, as suggested above, if there is nobody to compete against, it won't matter.
"We'll still have scholarships, we'll still have programs," Carter said. "Some of those sports may start to look and act a little bit more like a club sport, but yet compete at the Division I level and still travel and still compete."
https://www.dispatch.com/story/news/education/2024/08/21/ohio-state-ad-ross-bjork-nil-d1-sports-teams-big-ten/74893167007/
RE: The end of non-revenue sports at Stanford? - M T - 08-22-2024
(08-22-2024, 12:00 PM)OCcardinal Wrote: , but, as suggested above, if there is nobody to compete against, it won't matter.I don't buy that. There will be athletes that want to play at various schools. Do you think Stanford's fencing team is playing because there are lots of teams to compete against?
We may see more big streaks of championships in various sports as the best players gravitate to a small number of schools, whether for money or education or just the chance to compete. And some will be good enough to shine in the Olympics.
RE: The end of non-revenue sports at Stanford? - BostonCard - 08-22-2024
(08-22-2024, 12:00 PM)OCcardinal Wrote: True, some coaches and conference executives get excessive pay (a form of profit-taking), but that compensation is tied to generating revenue from the revenue sports. Those people aren't going to take pay cuts to make up for the reduced university resources for non-revenue sports.
Acutely, no, but over the long haul, coaches will make less money than they would have absent paying athletes (probably a good thing). ADs will have to decide how to best allocate money in order to win, and some of that will involve a trade off between paying the star athletes more and paying the coaches more. It might mean not matching another school poaching a successful coach, for example, or a less generous contract extension. And there may even be cases of coaches taking a less generous salary in order to create or expand a pool of money to be able to attract players. I could even see being written into in a contract, where the coach will negotiate a salary of $x and a discretionary pool of $y that he can throw at recruits.
Also, I could see a lot of AD employees that don’t add value being let go in order to increase the pool of money able to attract players.
And yes, sports will be cut or converted into a “club sport” status in order to save money.
Lastly, I think the NCAA has a minimum number of schools that must participate in a sport for it to be sanctioned by the NCAA. Men’s gymnastics (with only 15 participating schools) is considered at risk.
BC
RE: The end of non-revenue sports at Stanford? - 82lsju - 08-22-2024
(08-22-2024, 12:43 PM)BostonCard Wrote: Lastly, I think the NCAA has a minimum number of schools that must participate in a sport for it to be sanctioned by the NCAA. Men’s gymnastics (with only 15 participating schools) is considered at risk.
BC
this list only shows 12 schools...
https://web3.ncaa.org/directory/memberList?type=12&division=I&sportCode=MGY
RE: The end of non-revenue sports at Stanford? - Mick - 08-22-2024
Simpson, Greenville and Springfield College appear to have teams.
2024 Men's Gymnastics Schedule - Simpson College (IA) (simpsonathletics.com)
Men's Gymnastics - Greenville University Athletics
Men's Gymnastics - Springfield College (springfieldcollegepride.com)
RE: The end of non-revenue sports at Stanford? - 82lsju - 08-22-2024
(08-22-2024, 07:31 PM)Mick Wrote: Simpson, Greenville and Springfield College appear to have teams.
2024 Men's Gymnastics Schedule - Simpson College (IA) (simpsonathletics.com)
Men's Gymnastics - Greenville University Athletics
Men's Gymnastics - Springfield College (springfieldcollegepride.com)
as well as William & Mary and the USMA, USAFA, and USNA
https://web3.ncaa.org/directory/memberList?type=12&sportCode=MGY