Frequent flyers - Printable Version

Frequent flyers - Printable Version

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Frequent flyers - BostonCard - 08-16-2024

Hope the team gets miles...

https://neilpaine.substack.com/p/ex-pac-12-teams-face-some-of-the?utm_source=post-email-title&publication_id=1342344&post_id=147682546&utm_campaign=email-post-title&isFreemail=false&r=9atl&triedRedirect=true&utm_medium=email

Not surprisingly, the top 5 teams with the most travel next year are former Pac-12 teams; Stanford is third behind Cal and UCLA. I'm sure the welfare of the student athlete is at the top of decision-makers minds.

BC

RE: Frequent flyers - M T - 08-16-2024

Oh, those poor football players, with their charter planes that fly on their schedule, with typically 6 days between weekend games.

I'm sure the other sports without the mass to fly charter, having to fit into scheduled airlines with connections, and typically 4 days between weekend games will be so sympathetic to the hardships of the football team's mileage.
Oh, and sitting in the commercial airline seats will be so good for cramped legs, or for studying (yea, right).

Looking at WVB: Shortest Flight time only, add at least 3-4 hours for room-to-room time. As for dates, YMMV.
Aug 29 Minneapolis, MN: 3.75 hours Milwaukee, WI: 6.5 hours
Sep 5: Return 3.75 hours Return: 6.5 hours
Sep 9: Burbank, CA: 1.33 hours
Sep 12: Return 1.33 hours
Sep 16: Lincoln, NE: 5.0 hours
Sep 19: Return: 5.0 hours
Sep 25: South Bend, IN: 6.6 hours
Sep 28: Louisville, KY: 4.1 hours (bus)
Sep 29: Return: 5.1 hours
Oct 17: Dallas, TX: 3.6 hours
Oct 19: Pittsburgh, PA: 2.7 hours
Oct 21: Return: 5.4 hours
Oct 26: Coral Gables, FL: 5.6 hours
Nov 2: Tallahassee, FL: 1.5 hours
Nov 4: Return: 7 hours
Nov 17: Durham, NC: 5.2 hours
Nov 23: Chapel Hill, NC: 0 hours (bus)
Nov 25: Atlanta, GA: 1.5 hours
Nov 28: Return: 4.9 hours
and then the tournaments.

I didn't look to see that the shortest flight time made sense for their schedules. I'd guess that most of the air travel has to be on a day dedicated to travel (ie, not before or after a match)).

That's almost 70 76 hours in the air over 17 flights (10 states) in 90 days. Plus at least another 17-25 hours in the plane, plus another probably 30 hours going to/from airports, plus the 4 hour bus trip to Louisville. So a good 120+ hours (ie, 3 work weeks equivalent) traveling. In 3 months. Wow.

I didn't add up the ticket prices (or miles) but I'd be surprised if it was less than $5K each player & staff. More if they want seats they can study in. Good luck sleeping...

I guess the October & November flights might be impacted by a hurricane. The Sep 16 to Oct 17 trips could be impacted by thunderstorms or tornadoes. Would the team violate NCAA rules if they had an over/under line on the number of matches delayed or cancelled due to travel delays?

RE: Frequent flyers - M T - 08-17-2024

The NCAA rules probably need updating now that we have such geographically-spread conferences increasing travel time and number of time-zone crossings. The rules currently have special rules for travel to/from Hawaii and Alaska, (SFO -> HNL 5.3 hours, 2 time zones; SFO -> MIA 5.6 hours, 3 time zones). The rules talk about time periods without specifying that the two endpoints are in the same time zone.

The NCAA attempts to put limits on athletic activity so as to allow time for study and for a healthy life. There are three categories of time spent related to athletics:

Countable time. Time spent with coaches or other organized team activities meant to promote the skill. Limited to 4 hours per day, 20 hours per week. (Contests count as 3 hours)
Required time. Time required by the sport (travel, media activities, ...)
Voluntary time. Time spent by the student-athlete on their own (may involve safety supervision but not training)

Considering the Tallahassee -> SFO -> Stanford leg for WVB. The team would probably avoid the 6AM flight as that would trigger the Midnight - 5AM rule (travel isn't just the time in the air). Suppose they took the quickest flight, 8:29 AM EDT - 1:48 PM PDT. They'd probably have to board the bus to the airport at 6:30AM. So, eat & pack beginning no later than 5:30AM EDT. They wouldn't get back to campus until, say, 3 PM PDT, more than 12 hours after they got up. That day could count as their "Day Off" for that week, BUT this is the first of 3 games in 6 days so the coaches aren't required to give them the day off

Per the NCAA Division I 2024-2025 Manual,

Quote:17.02.1 Countable Athletically Related Activities. Countable athletically related activities include any required activity with an athletics purpose involving student-athletes and at the direction of, or supervised by, one or more of an institution's coaching staff (including strength and conditioning coaches) and must be counted within the weekly and daily limitations under Bylaws 17.1.7.1 and 17.1.7.2. Administrative activities (e.g., academic meetings, compliance meetings) shall not be considered as countable athletically related activities.

17.02.14 Required Athletically Related Activities. [A] Required athletically related activities include any activities, including those that are countable in the daily and weekly limitations, that are required of a student-athlete. Such activities include, but are not limited to, the following:
...
(h) Travel to and from away-from-home competition.

17.1.7 Time Limits for Athletically Related Activities. In all sports, the following time limitations shall apply:
17.1.7.1 Daily and Weekly Hour Limitations -- Playing Season. A student-athlete's participation in countable athletically related activities (see Bylaw 17.02.1) shall be limited to a maximum of four hours per day and 20 hours per week.

17.1.7.4 Required Day Off -- Playing Season. During the playing season, all countable athletically related activities (per Bylaw 17.02.1) shall be prohibited during one calendar day per week, except during participation in one conference and postseason championship and any postseason bowl games or National Invitation Tournaments, and during participation in NCAA championships.
17.1.7.4.1 Travel Day. A travel day related to athletics participation may be considered as a day off, provided no countable athletically related activities (see Bylaw 17.02.1) occur during that day.
17.1.7.7.1.1 Exception -- Return Travel Following Away-From-Home Competition -- Midnight to 5 a.m. [A] A day on which return to campus travel occurs between midnight and 5 a.m. from away-from-home competition may be considered as a day off, provided no required athletically related activities occur for a continuous 24-hour period starting from the time all participating student-athletes have been officially released following the return to campus.

17.1.7.7.8 Exception -- Three Contests in Seven-Day Period. [A] If an institution's team participates in three contests or three dates of competition in a seven-day period, an institution is not subject to the one-day-off-per-week requirement, provided the student-athletes do not engage in any required athletically related activities for two days during either the preceding or the following week.

17.1.7.11 Additional Restrictions.
17.1.7.11.1 No Class Time Missed in Conjunction with Nonchampionship Segment Competition -- Baseball, Field Hockey, Lacrosse, Soccer, Softball and Volleyball. In baseball, field hockey, lacrosse, soccer, softball and volleyball, no class time shall be missed in conjunction with nonchampionship segment competition, including activities associated with such competition (e.g., travel and other pregame or postgame activities).

17.1.7.11.6.3 Away-From-Home Competition -- Return to Campus After 9 p.m. [A] If a student-athlete returns to campus after 9 p.m. (local time) from an away-from-home competition, the institution must provide the student-athlete a continuous eight-hour period during which required athletically related activities are prohibited. The eight-hour period begins when the student-athlete returns to campus and is officially released from team obligations.

RE: Frequent flyers - French Rage - 08-17-2024

(08-16-2024, 08:17 PM)BostonCard Wrote: Hope the team gets miles...

https://neilpaine.substack.com/p/ex-pac-12-teams-face-some-of-the?utm_source=post-email-title&publication_id=1342344&post_id=147682546&utm_campaign=email-post-title&isFreemail=false&r=9atl&triedRedirect=true&utm_medium=email

Not surprisingly, the top 5 teams with the most travel next year are former Pac-12 teams; Stanford is third behind Cal and UCLA. I'm sure the welfare of the student athlete is at the top of decision-makers minds.

BC

Of note in his chart, 2016 Cal and 2017 Stanford involved Syndey games, 1996 BC, 1997 Minnesota, and 2011 Colorado involved Hawaii games, and 1996 Notre Dame involved an Ireland game, which definitely skews things with just one game.

1994 Miami feels like a typo since other than a game in Tempe they just went up and down the East Coast a few times.

2023 UCF is the first pre-2024 one on the list not affected by just one game, as last year's spread out Big 12 (more spread out this year of course) led to 2 games in KS, one in OK, one in TX, and an OOC game in ID. A preview of things to come this year.

RE: Frequent flyers - BobK - 08-17-2024

Hard to get miles on charter flights.

RE: Frequent flyers - chrisk - 08-17-2024

(08-16-2024, 10:39 PM)M T Wrote: Oh, those poor football players, with their charter planes that fly on their schedule, with typically 6 days between weekend games.

I'm sure the other sports without the mass to fly charter, having to fit into scheduled airlines with connections, and typically 4 days between weekend games will be so sympathetic to the hardships of the football team's mileage.
Oh, and sitting in the commercial airline seats will be so good for cramped legs, or for studying (yea, right).

Looking at WVB: Shortest Flight time only, add at least 3-4 hours for room-to-room time. As for dates, YMMV.
Aug 29 Minneapolis, MN: 3.75 hours
Sep 5: Return 3.75 hours
Sep 9: Burbank, CA: 1.33 hours
Sep 12: Return 1.33 hours
Sep 16: Lincoln, NE: 5.0 hours
Sep 19: Return: 5.0 hours
Sep 25: South Bend, IN: 6.6 hours
Sep 28: Louisville, KY: 4.1 hours (bus)
Sep 29: Return: 5.1 hours
Oct 17: Dallas, TX: 3.6 hours
Oct 19: Pittsburgh, PA: 2.7 hours
Oct 21: Return: 5.4 hours
Oct 26: Coral Gables, FL: 5.6 hours
Nov 2: Tallahassee, FL: 1.5 hours
Nov 4: Return: 7 hours
Nov 17: Durham, NC: 5.2 hours
Nov 23: Chapel Hill, NC: 0 hours (bus)
Nov 25: Atlanta, GA: 1.5 hours
Nov 28: Return: 4.9 hours
and then the tournaments.

I didn't look to see that the shortest flight time made sense for their schedules. I'd guess that most of the air travel has to be on a day dedicated to travel (ie, not before or after a match)).

That's almost 70 hours in the air over 17 flights (10 states) in 90 days. Plus at least another 17-25 hours in the plane, plus another probably 30 hours going to/from airports, plus the 4 hour bus trip to Louisville. So a good 120 hours (ie, 3 work weeks equivalent) traveling. In 3 months. Wow.

I didn't add up the ticket prices (or miles) but I'd be surprised if it was less than $5K each player & staff. More if they want seats they can study in. Good luck sleeping...

I guess the October & November flights might be impacted by a hurricane. The Sep 16 to Oct 17 trips could be impacted by thunderstorms or tornadoes. Would the team violate NCAA rules if they had an over/under line on the number of matches delayed or cancelled due to travel delays?

The 4 matches to start the season are in Milwaukee, not Minneapolis.
The date of the Duke match is 11/22.

About 40% of the flying time is before classes start or over Thanksgiving break.

RE: Frequent flyers - GK3 - 08-17-2024

(08-16-2024, 10:39 PM)M T Wrote: Oh, those poor football players, with their charter planes that fly on their schedule, with typically 6 days between weekend games.

I'm sure the other sports without the mass to fly charter, having to fit into scheduled airlines with connections, and typically 4 days between weekend games will be so sympathetic to the hardships of the football team's mileage.
Oh, and sitting in the commercial airline seats will be so good for cramped legs, or for studying (yea, right).

Looking at WVB: Shortest Flight time only, add at least 3-4 hours for room-to-room time. As for dates, YMMV.
Aug 29 Minneapolis, MN: 3.75 hours
Sep 5: Return 3.75 hours
Sep 9: Burbank, CA: 1.33 hours
Sep 12: Return 1.33 hours
Sep 16: Lincoln, NE: 5.0 hours
Sep 19: Return: 5.0 hours
Sep 25: South Bend, IN: 6.6 hours
Sep 28: Louisville, KY: 4.1 hours (bus)
Sep 29: Return: 5.1 hours
Oct 17: Dallas, TX: 3.6 hours
Oct 19: Pittsburgh, PA: 2.7 hours
Oct 21: Return: 5.4 hours
Oct 26: Coral Gables, FL: 5.6 hours
Nov 2: Tallahassee, FL: 1.5 hours
Nov 4: Return: 7 hours
Nov 17: Durham, NC: 5.2 hours
Nov 23: Chapel Hill, NC: 0 hours (bus)
Nov 25: Atlanta, GA: 1.5 hours
Nov 28: Return: 4.9 hours
and then the tournaments.

I didn't look to see that the shortest flight time made sense for their schedules. I'd guess that most of the air travel has to be on a day dedicated to travel (ie, not before or after a match)).

That's almost 70 hours in the air over 17 flights (10 states) in 90 days. Plus at least another 17-25 hours in the plane, plus another probably 30 hours going to/from airports, plus the 4 hour bus trip to Louisville. So a good 120 hours (ie, 3 work weeks equivalent) traveling. In 3 months. Wow.

I didn't add up the ticket prices (or miles) but I'd be surprised if it was less than $5K each player & staff. More if they want seats they can study in. Good luck sleeping...

I guess the October & November flights might be impacted by a hurricane. The Sep 16 to Oct 17 trips could be impacted by thunderstorms or tornadoes. Would the team violate NCAA rules if they had an over/under line on the number of matches delayed or cancelled due to travel delays?

Those kinds of schedules are why I pulled the plug at 62 plus the impact of Covid. No matter what the perks, after while it becomes very much an unfun way to spend hours and hours of every month. But being in your late teens or early 20's with not much more to worry about than passing the next math exam, plus flying around country with your friends and teamates, a piece of cake.

RE: Frequent flyers - BobK - 08-17-2024

News from the WVB get together today
Football and both basketball teams will fly charter. Not WVB this year.

RE: Frequent flyers - M T - 08-17-2024

(08-17-2024, 08:36 PM)BobK Wrote: News from the WVB get together today
Football and both basketball teams will fly charter. Not WVB this year.

Does this mean that
WVB
Cross-country
Field Hockey
W Lacrosse
M Soccer
W Soccer
W Gymnastics
M Swim & Dive
W Swim & Dive
Indoor T&F
Outdoor T&F
Wrestling
Baseball
Softball
M Tennis
W Tennis
will all be getting miles on scheduled airlines for ACC conference matches on the East Coast?

RE: Frequent flyers - BobK - 08-18-2024

WVB will get miles. Even to Dallas