Outside Topic RIP Pete Rose - Printable Version
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RIP Pete Rose - BostonCard - 09-30-2024
Just saw the headline flash.
BC
RE: RIP Pete Rose - BobK - 09-30-2024
Sad. Great great ball player. Not good at gambling
RE: RIP Pete Rose - BostonCard - 09-30-2024
Obit in the Cincinnati Enquirer.
https://www.cincinnati.com/story/sports/2024/09/30/pete-rose-mlb-hits-leader-obituary/2808469001/
BC
RE: RIP Pete Rose - CowboyIndian - 09-30-2024
Just saw a 4-part doc on him, the name and location of which escape me. Kind of sad.
OK…found it. “Charlie Hustle and the Matter of Pete Rose” on HBO. Worth watching.
RE: RIP Pete Rose - Mick - 09-30-2024
Agreed, he was an amazing player. As a manager, he took over a fifth-place Reds team and boosted them to 2nd place divisional finishes five years in a row. When Lou Piniella took over from Rose, they added Billy Hatcher, Hal Morris Glenn Braggs and closer Randy Myers and Piniella won the World Series with them.
RE: RIP Pete Rose - Giants - 09-30-2024
Today was one of those days when you feel a bit older…
Pete Rose died today. Yes, I know he was a divisive personality. However, no one can question his ability to hit a baseball. He was one of my favorite players from the 60’s and one of only five athletes I ever asked for (and received) an autograph. RIP, Charlie Hustle……
RE: RIP Pete Rose - M T - 09-30-2024
I recently saw Pete Rose on a Johnny Carson rerun. You’d think being interviewed after coming out of prison might be a bit awkward. Pete seemed humble and smart and funny and well-prepared and realistic. I was quite impressed.
RE: RIP Pete Rose - PVTree - 10-01-2024
I think he'll now be voted into the HoF. I sensed that baseball was waiting for him to no longer be with us to remove the ban.
I never "liked" him because he always played for opposing teams, but loved his hustle and wished he were a Cubbie.
RE: RIP Pete Rose - BostonCard - 10-01-2024
(10-01-2024, 12:41 AM)PVTree Wrote: I think he'll now be voted into the HoF. I sensed that baseball was waiting for him to no longer be with us to remove the ban.
I never "liked" him because he always played for opposing teams, but loved his hustle and wished he were a Cubbie.
Well, it was a "lifetime" ban. Does that expire with his passing?
Also, Dikembe Mutombo died of brain cancer.
https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/41530918/hall-famer-dikembe-mutombo-dies-brain-cancer-age-58
BC
RE: RIP Pete Rose - Spiny_Norman - 10-01-2024
(10-01-2024, 10:58 AM)BostonCard Wrote: Well, it was a "lifetime" ban. Does that expire with his passing?
BC
73 years after his passing, Shoeless Joe Jackson remains on the HoF ineligible list, even though he was never found to have cheated.
https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/13555698/mlb-commissioner-rob-manfred-reinstate-shoeless-joe-jackson
If the baseball commissioner applies the same approach to Pete Rose, he will remain on the ineligible list as well as long as Manfred is commissioner.
RE: RIP Pete Rose - cardcrimson - 10-01-2024
Bought one of his books when I was a kid. "How to Play Better Baseball" by Denny McClain and Pete Rose. Years later, thought the book somewhat ironic. Still have it somewhere. . . .
RE: RIP Pete Rose - Mick - 10-01-2024
(10-01-2024, 11:40 AM)Spiny_Norman Wrote:(10-01-2024, 10:58 AM)BostonCard Wrote: Well, it was a "lifetime" ban. Does that expire with his passing?
BC
73 years after his passing, Shoeless Joe Jackson remains on the HoF ineligible list, even though he was never found to have cheated.
https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/13555698/mlb-commissioner-rob-manfred-reinstate-shoeless-joe-jackson
If the baseball commissioner applies the same approach to Pete Rose, he will remain on the ineligible list as well as long as Manfred is commissioner.
Jackson was illiterate. His family were sharecroppers, and Jackson earned a few cents per day working 12 hour shifts as a 7 year old. He couldn't read even the shortest words. When he was in a restaurant with his teammates, he would order last and just order a meal that one of the other players had ordered. He certainly couldn't read the "agreement" that was put in front of him by Landis and his "representation" the team's attorney, Alfred Austrian, who had to get Jackson drunk to agree to it.
Jackson refused the $5k bribe twice, and his teammate Lefty Williams threw it on the hotel room floor. The other seven players confirmed that Jackson never attended any of the meetings to discuss throwing the 1919 series. Jackson was aware of it and tried to inform Comiskey, but Comiskey refused to meet with him. Jackson ended up hitting .375 (leading both teams) with a home run and three doubles in the 1919 WS. His 12 hits set a WS record that wasn't broken until 1964. Not only did Jackson never confess to throwing the series, he successfully sued Charles Comiskey for back pay for the 1920 and 1921 seasons.
Jackson's last year in baseball was 1920 when he was 32 years old. In 649 plate appearances, he struck out 14 times, he hit .382/.444/.589/1.033 with a career high in HRs (12), led the league in triples for the third time with 20, 42 doubles 105 runs scored, 121 RBIs. He and the other seven Black Sox were acquitted in a jury trial in 1921...and Landis banned them for life anyway.
Jackson was the first of the Black Sox Eight to die, heart attack, age 64.
RE: RIP Pete Rose - CardinalSagehen - 10-01-2024
Pete Rose did not deny (and indirectly admitted to) having an affair for a few years with a girl starting when she was 14 or 15. He was 32 and married with kids at the time.
In a general ethical sense, I believe in redemption. But I say f*** Pete Rose. He was a deeply flawed human being in multiple dimensions.
Despite the fact that Rose could hit a little white ball and win games, he was an epic loser in life, undeserving of plaudits and eulogies.
Just my $0.02.
</rant>
RE: RIP Pete Rose - Blue Hawk (Mizzou) Card - 10-02-2024
(10-01-2024, 09:23 PM)Mick Wrote:(10-01-2024, 11:40 AM)Spiny_Norman Wrote:(10-01-2024, 10:58 AM)BostonCard Wrote: Well, it was a "lifetime" ban. Does that expire with his passing?
BC
73 years after his passing, Shoeless Joe Jackson remains on the HoF ineligible list, even though he was never found to have cheated.
https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/13555698/mlb-commissioner-rob-manfred-reinstate-shoeless-joe-jackson
If the baseball commissioner applies the same approach to Pete Rose, he will remain on the ineligible list as well as long as Manfred is commissioner.
Jackson was illiterate. His family were sharecroppers, and Jackson earned a few cents per day working 12 hour shifts as a 7 year old. He couldn't read even the shortest words. When he was in a restaurant with his teammates, he would order last and just order a meal that one of the other players had ordered. He certainly couldn't read the "agreement" that was put in front of him by Landis and his "representation" the team's attorney, Alfred Austrian, who had to get Jackson drunk to agree to it.
Jackson refused the $5k bribe twice, and his teammate Lefty Williams threw it on the hotel room floor. The other seven players confirmed that Jackson never attended any of the meetings to discuss throwing the 1919 series. Jackson was aware of it and tried to inform Comiskey, but Comiskey refused to meet with him. Jackson ended up hitting .375 (leading both teams) with a home run and three doubles in the 1919 WS. His 12 hits set a WS record that wasn't broken until 1964. Not only did Jackson never confess to throwing the series, he successfully sued Charles Comiskey for back pay for the 1920 and 1921 seasons.
Jackson's last year in baseball was 1920 when he was 32 years old. In 649 plate appearances, he struck out 14 times, he hit .382/.444/.589/1.033 with a career high in HRs (12), led the league in triples for the third time with 20, 42 doubles 105 runs scored, 121 RBIs. He and the other seven Black Sox were acquitted in a jury trial in 1921...and Landis banned them for life anyway.
Jackson was the first of the Black Sox Eight to die, heart attack, age 64.
I used to teach the Black Sox trial in a course about famous trials. It's been a while, but I remember thinking that, while he was definitely illiterate and could not read what he "signed," he was not the completely unintelligent person that others (not you) have sometimes made him out to be. He ran a liquor store, apparently with some success, in his post baseball years.
Fwiw, mark me down as believing that they have to let Jackson in before Rose. Sure, Rose had a much longer career with laudier stats. But Jackson never had the chance to compile those stats. Rose's misdeeds were, imo, more serious than Jackson's. Jackson's primary crimes were hanging out with the wrong people and not trying hard enough to rat on them. He was swept up in baseball 's effort to whitewash the influence of game fixers out of the sport. And Commissioner Landis was mighty flawed, too.
RE: RIP Pete Rose - Mick - 10-02-2024
(10-02-2024, 10:48 AM)Blue Hawk (Mizzou) Card Wrote:(10-01-2024, 09:23 PM)Mick Wrote:(10-01-2024, 11:40 AM)Spiny_Norman Wrote:(10-01-2024, 10:58 AM)BostonCard Wrote: Well, it was a "lifetime" ban. Does that expire with his passing?
BC
73 years after his passing, Shoeless Joe Jackson remains on the HoF ineligible list, even though he was never found to have cheated.
https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/13555698/mlb-commissioner-rob-manfred-reinstate-shoeless-joe-jackson
If the baseball commissioner applies the same approach to Pete Rose, he will remain on the ineligible list as well as long as Manfred is commissioner.
Jackson was illiterate. His family were sharecroppers, and Jackson earned a few cents per day working 12 hour shifts as a 7 year old. He couldn't read even the shortest words. When he was in a restaurant with his teammates, he would order last and just order a meal that one of the other players had ordered. He certainly couldn't read the "agreement" that was put in front of him by Landis and his "representation" the team's attorney, Alfred Austrian, who had to get Jackson drunk to agree to it.
Jackson refused the $5k bribe twice, and his teammate Lefty Williams threw it on the hotel room floor. The other seven players confirmed that Jackson never attended any of the meetings to discuss throwing the 1919 series. Jackson was aware of it and tried to inform Comiskey, but Comiskey refused to meet with him. Jackson ended up hitting .375 (leading both teams) with a home run and three doubles in the 1919 WS. His 12 hits set a WS record that wasn't broken until 1964. Not only did Jackson never confess to throwing the series, he successfully sued Charles Comiskey for back pay for the 1920 and 1921 seasons.
Jackson's last year in baseball was 1920 when he was 32 years old. In 649 plate appearances, he struck out 14 times, he hit .382/.444/.589/1.033 with a career high in HRs (12), led the league in triples for the third time with 20, 42 doubles 105 runs scored, 121 RBIs. He and the other seven Black Sox were acquitted in a jury trial in 1921...and Landis banned them for life anyway.
Jackson was the first of the Black Sox Eight to die, heart attack, age 64.
I used to teach the Black Sox trial in a course about famous trials. It's been a while, but I remember thinking that, while he was definitely illiterate and could not read what he "signed," he was not the completely unintelligent person that others (not you) have sometimes made him out to be. He ran a liquor store, apparently with some success, in his post baseball years.
Fwiw, mark me down as believing that they have to let Jackson in before Rose. Sure, Rose had a much longer career with laudier stats. But Jackson never had the chance to compile those stats. Rose's misdeeds were, imo, more serious than Jackson's. Jackson's primary crimes were hanging out with the wrong people and not trying hard enough to rat on them. He was swept up in baseball 's effort to whitewash the influence of game fixers out of the sport. And Commissioner Landis was mighty flawed, too.
Agree on all counts. And I'd be interested in your take on Justice Hugo Friend, who presided over the Black Sox case.
Through an odd set of circumstances, I spent an evening talking with Jay Pritzker when I was an undergrad. Jay's wife for 51 years was Cindy Friend, daughter of Judge Friend. I really enjoyed the conversation, and we actually discussed the Black Sox case. Jay, a native Chicagoan, was clearly a fan of Judge Friend. Friend, incidentally, was on the Intercalated Olympic team in 1906, finished third in the long jump at 6.96 meters (22'10"). I met Jay's son Tom 17 years later in a business setting.
RE: RIP Pete Rose - Blue Hawk (Mizzou) Card - 10-03-2024
Sorry, but it has been long enough since I taught that course that I cannot remember much about the trial judge.
I do recall, I think, that they had to try to stretch some statute (maybe fraud statute) to try to cover the misconduct. That left room for the defense to secure acquittals