Outside Topic Fair Catch Free Kick (Rare) - Printable Version
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Fair Catch Free Kick (Rare) - newguy - 12-20-2024
Fans at tonight's Chargers-Broncos game were treated to an unusual play......a successful fair catch free kick. Trailing 21-10 just before halftime, the Chargers punt returner called for a fair catch, but was interfered with, resulting in a penalty, which gave the Chargers one final play with no time left on the clock. Coach Harbaugh, who doesn't always adhere to convention, figured what the hell, we're going for a 57-yard field goal from the Broncos 47 yard line (no need to snap the ball). Chargers placekicker Cameron Dicker nailed it. The Chargers went on to win, 34-27.
https://www.chargers.com/news/fair-catch-kick-cameron-dicker
RE: Fair Catch Free Kick (Rare) - Goose - 12-20-2024
(12-20-2024, 12:40 AM)newguy Wrote: Fans at tonight's Chargers-Broncos game were treated to an unusual play......a successful fair catch free kick. Trailing 21-10 just before halftime, the Chargers punt returner called for a fair catch, but was interfered with, resulting in a penalty, which gave the Chargers one final play with no time left on the clock. Coach Harbaugh, who doesn't always adhere to convention, figured what the hell, we're going for a 57-yard field goal from the Broncos 47 yard line (no need to snap the ball). Chargers placekicker Cameron Dicker nailed it. The Chargers went on to win, 34-27.To be clear, the Chargers had only the choice of a free kick or no play. They could not run a play from scrimmage.
https://www.chargers.com/news/fair-catch-kick-cameron-dicker
lex24 - lex24 - 12-21-2024
(12-20-2024, 09:49 AM)Goose Wrote:(12-20-2024, 12:40 AM)newguy Wrote: Fans at tonight's Chargers-Broncos game were treated to an unusual play......a successful fair catch free kick. Trailing 21-10 just before halftime, the Chargers punt returner called for a fair catch, but was interfered with, resulting in a penalty, which gave the Chargers one final play with no time left on the clock. Coach Harbaugh, who doesn't always adhere to convention, figured what the hell, we're going for a 57-yard field goal from the Broncos 47 yard line (no need to snap the ball). Chargers placekicker Cameron Dicker nailed it. The Chargers went on to win, 34-27.To be clear, the Chargers had only the choice of a free kick or no play. They could not run a play from scrimmage.
https://www.chargers.com/news/fair-catch-kick-cameron-dicker
Why? Half can’t end on a defensive penalty. Isn’t the punting team considered “defense”. If not, say there is a punt, time is up, returner starts to break free and is stopped by a face mask tackle at his own 40. I don’t think the half ends. I think they get one play
RE: Fair Catch Free Kick (Rare) - CompSci87 - 12-21-2024
I looked up the NFL rules at https://operations.nfl.com/the-rules/nfl-rulebook/.
By rule 3 section 35, whichever team has possession is offense, and that can change during the down, so under that rule once the receiving team catches the punt, the kicking team is now defense. Thus by rule 4 section 8 article 2(a), the half can't end on a penalty they commit then.
What about penalties while the kick is still in the air? Rule 4 section 8 article 2 has some extra rules such that basically any penalty by the kicking team extends the half if committed after the kick, even when the kicking team is technically still on offense because the receiving team doesn't have possession yet. The kicking team downing the punt by touching it first does it too.
RE: Fair Catch Free Kick (Rare) - M T - 12-23-2024
Thanks for looking up the rules. I haven't.
I suspect "while the kick is in the air" was not quite accurate. I suspect it means "was still in play but not yet possessed by the receiving team" (but I could see it being "touched" rather than "possessed").
A violation on a fair catch can happen while the ball is in the air (receiving team is on defense), or after the player receives the ball (receiving team is on offense).
The special rules will require extension in the first case, while the normal rules require extension on the 2nd case.
Similarly, a targeting call could be made on the kicking team while the kicked ball has hit the ground but not yet possessed by the receiving team (ie, they are still nominally on defense).
Along the same vein, how are these judged?
Assume as time runs out on the clock, team A tries a field goal. Say the kick is blocked and
Case1: while the ball is not possessed by either team, there is an unsportsmanlike penalty called on team (case 1a: A; case 1b: B)
Case2: Team B recovers the ball and as they are trying to advance the ball, there is an unsportsmanlike penalty called on team (case 2a: A, case 2b: B)
Case 3: Team B recovers the ball, but then fumbles it. Then, while the ball is not possessed by either team, there is an unsportsmanlike penalty called on (case 3a: A, case 3b: B)
(I chose an unsportsmanlike penalty since it can be called against either offense or defense)
My guess is
Case 1: Team B is the defensive team.
Case 2: Team A is the defensive team.
Case 3: Team A is the defensive team.
I would also guess if such a penalty is called in the same case against both teams, they offset and the half ends,
but if it is called against only one team in an earlier case (and the other team, in a later case),, then the earliest penalty would be in effect (whether the half extends depends upon whether it was against the (then) offense or defense), and the subsequent penalty is ignored (except for any penalty against the player).
Again, I'm guessing, if a team A lines up to punt or kick a field goal, and there is holding call against team B before the ball is kicked, I'd think the kicking team gets another down. But if holding is called against B after the ball is kicked, then the foul would not result in a new down for the kicking team. Likewise, if team A is called for holding before the kick, team B gets no extra play. . But if it is called after the kick, team B gets an extra play (if desired).
RE: Fair Catch Free Kick (Rare) - CompSci87 - 12-23-2024
Quote:I suspect "while the kick is in the air" was not quite accurate. I suspect it means "was still in play but not yet possessed by the receiving team"
Yes, that was careless wording on my part.
RE: Fair Catch Free Kick (Rare) - johnbar - 12-23-2024
After a safety, the scored-upon team gets a free kick from its own 20.
I have a vague memory of a similar scenario where, because of penalties, the team managed to kick a field goal from near mid-field.
This would have been in the 1960s, when the NFL still had the goal posts on the goal line.
RE: Fair Catch Free Kick (Rare) - 82lsju - 12-23-2024
(12-23-2024, 01:55 PM)johnbar Wrote: After a safety, the scored-upon team gets a free kick from its own 20.
I have a vague memory of a similar scenario where, because of penalties, the team managed to kick a field goal from near mid-field.
This would have been in the 1960s, when the NFL still had the goal posts on the goal line.
Quote:According to the Elias Sports Bureau, the last fair catch kick attempted in the NFL was by the Carolina Panthers' Joey Slye, who attempted a 60-yard kick in London in 2019 against the Tampa Bay Buccaneers (but was wide right). The last successful free-kick was made in 1976, when the then San Diego Chargers' Ray Wersching converted a 45-yard field goal against the Buffalo Bills. The longest previous fair catch free kick was a 52-yarder by Paul Hornung of the Green Bay Packers in 1962.
https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/43075671/what-free-kick-rule-nfl
see some previous attempts here
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HedgcGan-VM&t=69s
and a partial list of attempts
https://www.quirkyresearch.com/football-lists/nfl-fair-catch-kick-attempts/
RE: Fair Catch Free Kick (Rare) - M T - 12-23-2024
(12-23-2024, 01:55 PM)johnbar Wrote: After a safety, the scored-upon team gets a free kick from its own 20.
I have a vague memory of a similar scenario where, because of penalties, the team managed to kick a field goal from near mid-field.
This would have been in the 1960s, when the NFL still had the goal posts on the goal line.
Such an event would surely be mentioned in every trivia contest. Since that isn't the case, I would bet it didn't happen.
The kick from the 20 would have to be moved by penalties to at least the 40 (so at least 2 penalties) for even wondering about it, but you'd really need three 15-yard penalties for a realistic chance.
I saw a mention that Seattle scored 5 points in a half against SF in 2013. Maybe that's the source of your vague memory?
Turn it around. Team A gets 2 points for a safety. Team B has to kick a free kick. Can Team A use a fair catch on that free kick and kick a FG? I see a description that this was theoretically possible from 1943 to 1979, but then it was no longer allowed.
This page also mentions a 1-point safety, which was new to me.
CFL rules? Whole different ball game.
RE: Fair Catch Free Kick (Rare) - johnbar - 12-23-2024
(12-23-2024, 02:31 PM)M T Wrote:(12-23-2024, 01:55 PM)johnbar Wrote: After a safety, the scored-upon team gets a free kick from its own 20.
I have a vague memory of a similar scenario where, because of penalties, the team managed to kick a field goal from near mid-field.
This would have been in the 1960s, when the NFL still had the goal posts on the goal line.
Such an event would surely be mentioned in every trivia contest. Since that isn't the case, I would bet it didn't happen.
The kick from the 20 would have to be moved by penalties to at least the 40 (so at least 2 penalties) for even wondering about it, but you'd really need three 15-yard penalties for a realistic chance.
I saw a mention that Seattle scored 5 points in a half against SF in 2013. Maybe that's the source of your vague memory?
Turn it around. Team A gets 2 points for a safety. Team B has to kick a free kick. Can Team A use a fair catch on that free kick and kick a FG? I see a description that this was theoretically possible from 1943 to 1979, but then it was no longer allowed.
This page also mentions a 1-point safety, which was new to me.
CFL rules? Whole different ball game.
It certainly wasn't that 2013 game. As I said, this would have been back in the 1960s. (Or the early 70s.)
Agree it would have to be multiple penalties. But maybe it never happened.
ETA: Or maybe it was a fair catch free kick, and it's just my fuzzy memory confusing things.
I read this article, which also discusses some of the rare/unlikely scenarios you mention:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Safety_(gridiron_football_score)