Elite 11 - Printable Version
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Elite 11 - SeattleTree - 08-17-2014
Did anyone else watch the Elite 11 on ESPN? I understand that the show can be edited to make a player look any way they choose to, but it was interesting to see how they handled Rosen. Plenty of ammunition there for Stanford if they decided not to offer based on attitude. Plenty of ammunition there for UCLA if they offered based solely on physical tools.Â
Re: Elite 11 - PrinceLightfoot - 08-17-2014
I did when it came out back in July. This is what Dilfer said concerning Rosen:
Quote:He looks [like] what people think a quarterback should look like. He's big..he's strong...he makes the very difficult look easy. He is super, super smart, but I think it is almost a curse for him. Josh is a guy that has yet to buy-in to what I am preaching. He's still a guy that keeps telling me how they do it down in Bosco and what the secondary is doing when I am talking to him about running pure progression offense. And it's funny because I've sat him down...I've complimented him on how much he knows...he definitely understands defenses, but what Josh has to learn before he takes [over the keys] to a major college program that it's not about knowing more than the coach. It's about doing it the coach's way and that's something that hopefully we'll see in the next few days because he has one of our best coaches in Charlie Frye coaching him. If he is wise, he will listen to what Charlie tells him.
Re: Elite 11 - JohnR34231 - 08-18-2014
I think that pretty much confirms what many of us had suspected as to the reason that Rosen didn't get a Stanford offer.
Re: Elite 11 - Bruce Wang - 08-18-2014
He sounds like the second coming of Jeff George.
Re: Elite 11 - Hulk01 - 08-18-2014
Yes: Jeff George.Â
No way. Never.
Re: Elite 11 - Mick - 08-19-2014
(08-18-2014, 01:05 AM)JPRI link Wrote:I think that pretty much confirms what many of us had suspected as to the reason that Rosen didn't get a Stanford offer.
I read a six-line interview with him and got that same vibe. Six sentences. It's hard to look like a douche stupidly cocky in six sentences.
Re: Elite 11 - Leftcoast - 08-19-2014
Stupidly cocky seems to work for some positions but not QB.Â
WRs, DBs, DEs, DTs have all made the top level of the NFL sporting a stupid, cocky vibe. QBs? Not so much. The best, the players teams rally around and are willing to fight for, realize it takes a team to win. Jerks win, and more often lose, alone.
Here's some of the consensus player names that come up as among the top-20 all-time NFL QBs.
Tom Brady
John Elway
Roger Staubach
Drew Brees
Payton Manning
Otto Graham
Johnny Unitas
Aaron Rogers
Joe Montana
Dan Marino
Brett Favre
Steve Young
Fran Tarkenton
Bart Starr
No Jeff George or Michael Vick. No Art Schlichter or Rex Grossman. No Ryan Leaf, Vince Young or Jamarcus Russell.Â
Looks to me that the jerks with talent never made it to the top rung. Well, except when it comes to Dan Marino and possibly Brett Favre. We'll let Garvin start the counter argument there.
Re: Elite 11 - stanfan95118 - 08-19-2014
(08-19-2014, 01:58 PM)leftcoast link Wrote:Stupidly cocky seems to work for some positions but not QB.Â
WRs, DBs, DEs, DTs have all made the top level of the NFL sporting a stupid, cocky vibe. QBs? Not so much. The best, the players teams rally around and are willing to fight for, realize it takes a team to win. Jerks win, and more often lose, alone.
Here's some of the consensus player names that come up as among the top-20 all-time NFL QBs.
Tom Brady
John Elway
Roger Staubach
Drew Brees
Payton Manning
Otto Graham
Johnny Unitas
Aaron Rogers
Joe Montana
Dan Marino
Brett Favre
Steve Young
Fran Tarkenton
Bart Starr
No Jeff George or Michael Vick. No Art Schlichter or Rex Grossman. No Ryan Leaf, Vince Young or Jamarcus Russell.Â
Looks to me that the jerks with talent never made it to the top rung. Well, except when it comes to Dan Marino and possibly Brett Favre. We'll let Garvin start the counter argument there.
Tom Brady's attitude has never impressed me, personally.
Re: Elite 11 - Rally - 08-19-2014
(08-19-2014, 03:42 PM)garvin link Wrote:Quote:Stupidly cocky seems to work for some positions but not QB.
Hmmm. Joe Namath.
Cocky, yes. Stupid? I don't think so. Anymore than I think Sherman is stupid.Â
Re: Elite 11 - CornFed - 08-19-2014
Good get, Garvin. Although there will be those who argue he doesn't make the top twenty. But he definitely is an exception to the general rule.
Re: Elite 11 - Leftcoast - 08-19-2014
Joe Namath's Career Stats:
Win/Loss/Ties:    68 wins, 74 losses, 4 ties (64-64-4 if playoffs excluded)
Career Passing %Â Â 50.1
QB Rating:Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â 65.5Â (w/ 50 more Ints than TDs)
Other:
* 1st QB to throw for over 4,000 yds in a season (1967)
*Â Winning QB in Super Bowl IIIÂ ("Guarantee" game)
*Â Regarded as the NFLs first true media darling
*Â Elected to the Pro Football Hall of Fame
*Â Four time AFL All-Star
So mediocre stats coupled with some intangibles. He wouldn't make my list of elite QBs except for one very special game. Isn't "Broadway Joe" the Johnny Manziel of the late 60s/early 70s?
Re: Elite 11 - Rally - 08-19-2014
(08-19-2014, 05:13 PM)leftcoast link Wrote:Joe Namath's Career Stats:
Win/Loss/Ties:    68 wins, 74 losses, 4 ties (64-64-4 if playoffs excluded)
Career Passing %Â Â 50.1
QB Rating:Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â 65.5Â (w/ 50 more ints than TDs)
Other:
* 1st QB to throw for over 4,000 yds in a season (1967)
*Â Winning QB in Super Bowl IIIÂ ("Guarantee" game)
*Â Regarded as the NFLs first true media darling
*Â Elected to the Pro Football Hall of Fame
*Â Four time AFL All-Star
So mediocre stats coupled with some intangibles. He wouldn't make my list of elite QBs except for one very special game. Isn't "Broadway Joe" the Johnny Manziel of the late 60s/early 70s?
Stats aside, Broadway Joe was to the NFL then what Tiger was to golf. People who had never followed the sport tuned in to see him perform. Although his game didn't need it, Reggie Jackson was the same. As he put it, the Straw that Stirs the Drink sold tickets.
Re: Elite 11 - CornFed - 08-19-2014
Yeah, but Tiger was a boring guy. Reggie was the alpha version of Barry Bonds. Namath was far more embraceable than Manziel seems to be.
Re: Elite 11 - Hank 91 - 08-19-2014
(08-17-2014, 07:16 PM)SeattleTree link Wrote:Did anyone else watch the Elite 11 on ESPN? I understand that the show can be edited to make a player look any way they choose to, but it was interesting to see how they handled Rosen. Plenty of ammunition there for Stanford if they decided not to offer based on attitude. Plenty of ammunition there for UCLA if they offered based solely on physical tools.
I just watched this this morning, and I had the same reaction that most have had here. "Now I see why we didn't offer him." Before this show, it never made sense -- the consensus top quarterback in America WANTS to come to Stanford, and he doesn't get an offer. I kept thinking about something Shaw said about Andrew Luck after the Washington game his senior year, when they rushed for 446 yards. Shaw apologized to Luck for the lack of passing opportunities, and Andrew said he thought it was the best game he had ever played because he felt like he had checked into the correct run play almost every time. Kind of the opposite of Josh Rosen.
But in Rosen's defense, this is a 17- or 18-year-old kid who just won the California state championship. It will be interesting to see if he learns anything from what he saw the other night. His initial reaction was about the music, not the fact that he was portrayed as a pompous ass. We'll see.
https://twitter.com/josh3rosen/status/501182492502532096
Re: Elite 11 - JohnR34231 - 08-20-2014
It's probably just as well. Assuming Keller Chryst turns out to be the player we think he will, Rosen would have spent the majority of his career at Stanford on the bench behind him. Somehow I don't think that would have flown with Josh, and I bet he would have transferred.
P.S. Rosen supposedly tweeted one time "I know I'm a tool" (or words to that effect), so I don't think it particularly bothers him that some people think he's a pompous ass.
Re: Elite 11 - StannyBoy - 08-20-2014
(08-20-2014, 03:44 AM)JPRI link Wrote:It's probably just as well. Assuming Keller Chryst turns out to be the player we think he will, Rosen would have spent the majority of his career at Stanford on the bench behind him. Somehow I don't think that would have flown with Josh, and I bet he would have transferred.
P.S. Rosen supposedly tweeted one time "I know I'm a tool" (or words to that effect), so I don't think it particularly bothers him that some people think he's a pompous ass.
I wouldn't be so sure Rosen would not have beaten our Chryst. In fact, my money would be on Rosen.
Re: Elite 11 - Rally - 08-20-2014
(08-20-2014, 05:14 PM)StannyBoy link Wrote:[quote author=JPRI link=topic=10380.msg94751#msg94751 date=1408531468]
It's probably just as well. Assuming Keller Chryst turns out to be the player we think he will, Rosen would have spent the majority of his career at Stanford on the bench behind him. Somehow I don't think that would have flown with Josh, and I bet he would have transferred.
P.S. Rosen supposedly tweeted one time "I know I'm a tool" (or words to that effect), so I don't think it particularly bothers him that some people think he's a pompous ass.
I wouldn't be so sure Rosen would not have beaten our Chryst. In fact, my money would be on Rosen.
[/quote]
I disagree completely. Unless he finds the true path (which for his sake I hope but doubt) the chemistry would have been horrible, disruptive, and our boys would not have followed him. This is a team sport.Â
Re: Elite 11 - CornFed - 08-20-2014
(08-20-2014, 06:27 PM)ferrari link Wrote:[quote author=StannyBoy link=topic=10380.msg94805#msg94805 date=1408580077]
[quote author=JPRI link=topic=10380.msg94751#msg94751 date=1408531468]
It's probably just as well. Assuming Keller Chryst turns out to be the player we think he will, Rosen would have spent the majority of his career at Stanford on the bench behind him. Somehow I don't think that would have flown with Josh, and I bet he would have transferred.
P.S. Rosen supposedly tweeted one time "I know I'm a tool" (or words to that effect), so I don't think it particularly bothers him that some people think he's a pompous ass.
I wouldn't be so sure Rosen would not have beaten our Chryst. In fact, my money would be on Rosen.
[/quote]
I disagree completely. Unless he finds the true path (which for his sake I hope but doubt) the chemistry would have been horrible, disruptive, and our boys would not have followed him. This is a team sport.
[/quote]
And given the descriptions of Rosen on this board, I suspect he is not the kind of guy Shaw would prefer to lead his team. Can you imagine what Rosen would have been like on the sideline at the end of the Orange Bowl? Chryst, it would seem to me, would take ties in Shaw's evaluation. Rosen would have to be PHENOMENAL++++.
Re: Elite 11 - yvonne - 08-20-2014
http://thecardboard.org/board/index.php/topic,7902.msg67840.html#msg67840
Re: Elite 11 - Rally - 08-20-2014
(08-20-2014, 08:18 PM)Yvonne link Wrote:http://thecardboard.org/board/index.php/topic,7902.msg67840.html#msg67840
Show off :)