[CompSci87]

Stanford doesn't, EVER, refer to it as "The Natty".

[CompSci87]

Stanford doesn't, EVER, refer to it as "The Natty".

[jacketree]

Honestly, with two losses on the books and probably another three on the way, this team will definitely not win a natty.

[jacketree]

Honestly, with two losses on the books and probably another three on the way, this team will definitely not win a natty.

[lex24]

The NC talk always drives me nuts. Frankly they have 8 days to regroup. If they play like that against WSU they will lose by 40.

Honestly, with two losses on the books and probably another three on the way, this team will definitely not win a natty.

[lex24]

The NC talk always drives me nuts. Frankly they have 8 days to regroup. If they play like that against WSU they will lose by 40.

Honestly, with two losses on the books and probably another three on the way, this team will definitely not win a natty.

[CowboyIndian]

A small minority of us here are millenial stanford alums you know

And you're acting like it.

[CowboyIndian]

A small minority of us here are millenial stanford alums you know

And you're acting like it.

[ChicagoCard]

How did national championship become a topic in the context of this game, or season? Classic troll move.

[ChicagoCard]

How did national championship become a topic in the context of this game, or season? Classic troll move.

[CowboyIndian]

[quote author=Trevmiesterj link=topic=17793.msg208451#msg208451 date=1509078744]
Stanford doesn't, EVER, refer to it as "The Natty".

[/quote]

I thought "Bumppo" had two 'p's

[CowboyIndian]

[quote author=Trevmiesterj link=topic=17793.msg208451#msg208451 date=1509078744]
Stanford doesn't, EVER, refer to it as "The Natty".

[/quote]

I thought "Bumppo" had two 'p's

[washingtonismoney]

How did national championship become a topic in the context of this game, or season? Classic troll move.

I dunno, it's not a crazy thing to wonder about. Shaw himself has talked about how playoffs are an aspiration for him and the team. It's the one thing he hasn't accomplished. I'd be frankly a bit disturbed if he weren't thinking about playoffs.

Now maybe this particular season it shouldn't be the aspiration -- but then again, 538 estimates, IIRC, a two-thirds chance for reaching the playoff if the team wins out. So there's a chance.

Then there's the future. It's unlikely, but if every draft-eligible player returned for 2018, it'd be a super-experienced team on both sides of the ball. Who'll be the right QB for that team? It shouldn't be Chryst. Is it Costello? Now would be a nice time to find out.

And of course the high-end recruits who might propel Stanford to the playoff in future years might be watching the game. Was that a good advertisement for them?

So while maybe this game might not matter much in the grand playoff scheme of things, you need to play every game as if it's an opportunity to advance the chess pieces towards that goal. That didn't reach that standard.

[washingtonismoney]

How did national championship become a topic in the context of this game, or season? Classic troll move.

I dunno, it's not a crazy thing to wonder about. Shaw himself has talked about how playoffs are an aspiration for him and the team. It's the one thing he hasn't accomplished. I'd be frankly a bit disturbed if he weren't thinking about playoffs.

Now maybe this particular season it shouldn't be the aspiration -- but then again, 538 estimates, IIRC, a two-thirds chance for reaching the playoff if the team wins out. So there's a chance.

Then there's the future. It's unlikely, but if every draft-eligible player returned for 2018, it'd be a super-experienced team on both sides of the ball. Who'll be the right QB for that team? It shouldn't be Chryst. Is it Costello? Now would be a nice time to find out.

And of course the high-end recruits who might propel Stanford to the playoff in future years might be watching the game. Was that a good advertisement for them?

So while maybe this game might not matter much in the grand playoff scheme of things, you need to play every game as if it's an opportunity to advance the chess pieces towards that goal. That didn't reach that standard.

[Phogge]

If you can see the future you should really use it for better things than this.

I see the future. It will rain in Memphis tomorrow but let up so I can go to the Liberty Bowl and watch a team that really knows how to move the ball.

[Phogge]

If you can see the future you should really use it for better things than this.

I see the future. It will rain in Memphis tomorrow but let up so I can go to the Liberty Bowl and watch a team that really knows how to move the ball.

[d4cohn]

How did national championship become a topic in the context of this game, or season? Classic troll move.

There have been a lot of hot takes tonight; I would have thought I was watching an episode of First Take. We have this take, the "point-shaving" take from the game thread, along with someone calling this the worst coaching performance he has seen (both Stanford football and non-Stanford football). Tonight was a bad performance, but these are all Skip Bayless-level hot takes.

[d4cohn]

How did national championship become a topic in the context of this game, or season? Classic troll move.

There have been a lot of hot takes tonight; I would have thought I was watching an episode of First Take. We have this take, the "point-shaving" take from the game thread, along with someone calling this the worst coaching performance he has seen (both Stanford football and non-Stanford football). Tonight was a bad performance, but these are all Skip Bayless-level hot takes.

[Goose]

Nothing illustrates the lack of imagination in the offense than throwing four straight fade routes, for the TD, and three attempts at a 2pt conversion.  Really?  That's all you have?  Where are the slants?  The play action passes?  The roll-outs?  The sprint draws?

OF, I think the point there was "You can't stop this, no matter what you do." It was the passing equivalent of running Power 4 straight times. And as long as JJ was the target, they couldn't. Myself, I would have for certain kept the same personnel and formation, then given it to Scarlett on the last one. Don't need all the complexity  :).

[Goose]

Nothing illustrates the lack of imagination in the offense than throwing four straight fade routes, for the TD, and three attempts at a 2pt conversion.  Really?  That's all you have?  Where are the slants?  The play action passes?  The roll-outs?  The sprint draws?

OF, I think the point there was "You can't stop this, no matter what you do." It was the passing equivalent of running Power 4 straight times. And as long as JJ was the target, they couldn't. Myself, I would have for certain kept the same personnel and formation, then given it to Scarlett on the last one. Don't need all the complexity  :).

[phxfan]

[quote author=ChicagoTree link=topic=17793.msg208507#msg208507 date=1509080271]
How did national championship become a topic in the context of this game, or season? Classic troll move.

I dunno, it's not a crazy thing to wonder about. Shaw himself has talked about how playoffs are an aspiration for him and the team. It's the one thing he hasn't accomplished. I'd be frankly a bit disturbed if he weren't thinking about playoffs.

Now maybe this particular season it shouldn't be the aspiration -- but then again, 538 estimates, IIRC, a two-thirds chance for reaching the playoff if the team wins out. So there's a chance.

Then there's the future. It's unlikely, but if every draft-eligible player returned for 2018, it'd be a super-experienced team on both sides of the ball. Who'll be the right QB for that team? It shouldn't be Chryst. Is it Costello? Now would be a nice time to find out.

And of course the high-end recruits who might propel Stanford to the playoff in future years might be watching the game. Was that a good advertisement for them?

So while maybe this game might not matter much in the grand playoff scheme of things, you need to play every game as if it's an opportunity to advance the chess pieces towards that goal. That didn't reach that standard.
[/quote]

excellent post!

[phxfan]

[quote author=ChicagoTree link=topic=17793.msg208507#msg208507 date=1509080271]
How did national championship become a topic in the context of this game, or season? Classic troll move.

I dunno, it's not a crazy thing to wonder about. Shaw himself has talked about how playoffs are an aspiration for him and the team. It's the one thing he hasn't accomplished. I'd be frankly a bit disturbed if he weren't thinking about playoffs.

Now maybe this particular season it shouldn't be the aspiration -- but then again, 538 estimates, IIRC, a two-thirds chance for reaching the playoff if the team wins out. So there's a chance.

Then there's the future. It's unlikely, but if every draft-eligible player returned for 2018, it'd be a super-experienced team on both sides of the ball. Who'll be the right QB for that team? It shouldn't be Chryst. Is it Costello? Now would be a nice time to find out.

And of course the high-end recruits who might propel Stanford to the playoff in future years might be watching the game. Was that a good advertisement for them?

So while maybe this game might not matter much in the grand playoff scheme of things, you need to play every game as if it's an opportunity to advance the chess pieces towards that goal. That didn't reach that standard.
[/quote]

excellent post!

[BostonCard]

So while maybe this game might not matter much in the grand playoff scheme of things, you need to play every game as if it's an opportunity to advance the chess pieces towards that goal. That didn't reach that standard.

Agreed, but what you write is a far cry off from declaring "This team will never win a natty".  I mean, it's true that odds are Shaw won't win a national championship; the list of great coaches to not win a national title is very long and distinguished. Obviously, I think making the playoffs should be our goal every year, and I agree that this game bodes poorly for that.  But we must not loose sight of things; not winning a national title would not take anything away from Shaw's accomplishments, which is what I think the OP was doing that would have made his post a "troll move".

BC

[BostonCard]

So while maybe this game might not matter much in the grand playoff scheme of things, you need to play every game as if it's an opportunity to advance the chess pieces towards that goal. That didn't reach that standard.

Agreed, but what you write is a far cry off from declaring "This team will never win a natty".  I mean, it's true that odds are Shaw won't win a national championship; the list of great coaches to not win a national title is very long and distinguished. Obviously, I think making the playoffs should be our goal every year, and I agree that this game bodes poorly for that.  But we must not loose sight of things; not winning a national title would not take anything away from Shaw's accomplishments, which is what I think the OP was doing that would have made his post a "troll move".

BC

[DC 86]

Only four active FBS head coaches have won a national championship, and one of them saw his team fall to 2-5 tonight.

[DC 86]

Only four active FBS head coaches have won a national championship, and one of them saw his team fall to 2-5 tonight.

[BostonCard]

Only four active FBS head coaches have won a national championship, and one of them saw his team fall to 2-5 tonight.

I was going to note that.  Not only did FSU fall to 2-5, they managed a meagre 3 points against BC.  Now, to be fair, their starting QB (Deondre Francois) is injured... but Blackman's QBR against BC was actually worse than Chryst's.  Blackman was 11/26 for 102 yards (3.9 ypa), 0 TD, 1 INT, and a QBR of 14.1.  They had 213 yards of offense, which was actually less than the 222 we mustered.  By any measure, FSU's game was as putrid offensively as ours, but they also had a defense who gave up 5 TD's to BC.

BC

[BostonCard]

Only four active FBS head coaches have won a national championship, and one of them saw his team fall to 2-5 tonight.

I was going to note that.  Not only did FSU fall to 2-5, they managed a meagre 3 points against BC.  Now, to be fair, their starting QB (Deondre Francois) is injured... but Blackman's QBR against BC was actually worse than Chryst's.  Blackman was 11/26 for 102 yards (3.9 ypa), 0 TD, 1 INT, and a QBR of 14.1.  They had 213 yards of offense, which was actually less than the 222 we mustered.  By any measure, FSU's game was as putrid offensively as ours, but they also had a defense who gave up 5 TD's to BC.

BC

[akiddoc]

It is incredibly unlikely that Stanford will ever win a NC. We will never have the athletes that the top few programs have (such as Alabama, tOSU, FSU). We will never have the depth that those teams have. We won't have kids spending 40 hours a week on football all year. (Don't be fooled by the NCAA "rules." They are bent in everyway imaginable.) They actually have to take real classes. Most of them are preparing for life outside of football. The limitations on recruiting are in some ways greater than fans realize. The idea that we are a QB decision away from making it to the NC is wishful thinking at best.

After the Iowa game, the Stanford boards were full of posters proclaiming Shaw the top offensive coach in the country.

The idea that the fans know the internal workings of this team well enough to know who should start at QB is not very sound thinking. Stanford grads being Stanford grads though, they always think they know more than everyone else no matter what their profession.

Costello has some good qualities, but he certainly doen't look like the second coming of Andrew Luck. I'd like to see what he can do as much as the next fan, but I do not know his limitations in the way that the Stanford coaches do. Hopefully Costello's mastery of the offense will improve enough that we will find out.

[akiddoc]

It is incredibly unlikely that Stanford will ever win a NC. We will never have the athletes that the top few programs have (such as Alabama, tOSU, FSU). We will never have the depth that those teams have. We won't have kids spending 40 hours a week on football all year. (Don't be fooled by the NCAA "rules." They are bent in everyway imaginable.) They actually have to take real classes. Most of them are preparing for life outside of football. The limitations on recruiting are in some ways greater than fans realize. The idea that we are a QB decision away from making it to the NC is wishful thinking at best.

After the Iowa game, the Stanford boards were full of posters proclaiming Shaw the top offensive coach in the country.

The idea that the fans know the internal workings of this team well enough to know who should start at QB is not very sound thinking. Stanford grads being Stanford grads though, they always think they know more than everyone else no matter what their profession.

Costello has some good qualities, but he certainly doen't look like the second coming of Andrew Luck. I'd like to see what he can do as much as the next fan, but I do not know his limitations in the way that the Stanford coaches do. Hopefully Costello's mastery of the offense will improve enough that we will find out.

[teejers1]

akiddoc, it doesn't take a Stanford degree or having played football all your life to see that the QB play last night was pathetic.  All you need are a pair of eyes and half a brain.

Forget about who should be "the starter."  There is just no defense to allowing Chryst to play the whole game last night w/o giving Costello - who has played well to date - a series or two.  Are you so beholden to this staff that you can't even go that far?

[teejers1]

akiddoc, it doesn't take a Stanford degree or having played football all your life to see that the QB play last night was pathetic.  All you need are a pair of eyes and half a brain.

Forget about who should be "the starter."  There is just no defense to allowing Chryst to play the whole game last night w/o giving Costello - who has played well to date - a series or two.  Are you so beholden to this staff that you can't even go that far?

[BigSky]

Don’t need the “internal workings” crap to know that Costello is significantly better than the guy that looks like a deer in the head lights. Just watch the games.  Internal workings is just an excuse for bad coaching.

[BigSky]

Don’t need the “internal workings” crap to know that Costello is significantly better than the guy that looks like a deer in the head lights. Just watch the games.  Internal workings is just an excuse for bad coaching.

[ChicagoCard]

Only four active FBS head coaches have won a national championship, and one of them saw his team fall to 2-5 tonight.

Wow, 3-35 was the final. What a job that must be, keeping FSU recruits a cohesive, team-oriented unit.

[ChicagoCard]

Only four active FBS head coaches have won a national championship, and one of them saw his team fall to 2-5 tonight.

Wow, 3-35 was the final. What a job that must be, keeping FSU recruits a cohesive, team-oriented unit.

[norcard]

[quote author=washingtonismoney link=topic=17793.msg208512#msg208512 date=1509080634]
So while maybe this game might not matter much in the grand playoff scheme of things, you need to play every game as if it's an opportunity to advance the chess pieces towards that goal. That didn't reach that standard.

Agreed, but what you write is a far cry off from declaring "This team will never win a natty".  I mean, it's true that odds are Shaw won't win a national championship; the list of great coaches to not win a national title is very long and distinguished. Obviously, I think making the playoffs should be our goal every year, and I agree that this game bodes poorly for that.  But we must not loose sight of things; not winning a national title would not take anything away from Shaw's accomplishments, which is what I think the OP was doing that would have made his post a "troll move".

BC
[/quote]

Im grateful for what Shaw has done for the program up to a point.  But if he wants to take that next step into greatness beyond just pac 12 championships - he has to be cognizant of his short comings and be amenable to change.  He shows complete - and i mean complete unwavering loyalty to his staff when this shouldnt neccessarily be the case.  I dont suggest to fire some or any of them, but bringing in external advisors to supplement the play calling and player development with infusion of new ideas would is not a novel concept.  You can say im trolling and you
you can unfallingly continue to blindly cite and believe espn's asinine Football power Index prediction - (which btw had stanford at over 90% win probability over OSU, 80+% over usc and 85% over sdsu) but as others have indicated - Shaw has consistently exhibited incomprehensible errors such as The delay of game penalty on the last drive that was completely unacceptable at a fundamental coaching level.  People also forget shaw was qb coach for the ravens - and we all know how good the ravens qbs were during that tenure (hint not great). Same with Tavita's qb development accolades and experience.  If you're fine with 10 win seasons followed by occasional foster farm bowls and worse, but possibly never a cfp - then shaw most likely is your guy.  To even have a shot at a national championship, you have to maximize your opportunies to win by limiting egregious examples of poor in game decision making at a minimum. 

[norcard]

[quote author=washingtonismoney link=topic=17793.msg208512#msg208512 date=1509080634]
So while maybe this game might not matter much in the grand playoff scheme of things, you need to play every game as if it's an opportunity to advance the chess pieces towards that goal. That didn't reach that standard.

Agreed, but what you write is a far cry off from declaring "This team will never win a natty".  I mean, it's true that odds are Shaw won't win a national championship; the list of great coaches to not win a national title is very long and distinguished. Obviously, I think making the playoffs should be our goal every year, and I agree that this game bodes poorly for that.  But we must not loose sight of things; not winning a national title would not take anything away from Shaw's accomplishments, which is what I think the OP was doing that would have made his post a "troll move".

BC
[/quote]

Im grateful for what Shaw has done for the program up to a point.  But if he wants to take that next step into greatness beyond just pac 12 championships - he has to be cognizant of his short comings and be amenable to change.  He shows complete - and i mean complete unwavering loyalty to his staff when this shouldnt neccessarily be the case.  I dont suggest to fire some or any of them, but bringing in external advisors to supplement the play calling and player development with infusion of new ideas would is not a novel concept.  You can say im trolling and you
you can unfallingly continue to blindly cite and believe espn's asinine Football power Index prediction - (which btw had stanford at over 90% win probability over OSU, 80+% over usc and 85% over sdsu) but as others have indicated - Shaw has consistently exhibited incomprehensible errors such as The delay of game penalty on the last drive that was completely unacceptable at a fundamental coaching level.  People also forget shaw was qb coach for the ravens - and we all know how good the ravens qbs were during that tenure (hint not great). Same with Tavita's qb development accolades and experience.  If you're fine with 10 win seasons followed by occasional foster farm bowls and worse, but possibly never a cfp - then shaw most likely is your guy.  To even have a shot at a national championship, you have to maximize your opportunies to win by limiting egregious examples of poor in game decision making at a minimum. 

[Velodoc]

Nothing illustrates the lack of imagination in the offense than throwing four straight fade routes, for the TD, and three attempts at a 2pt conversion.  Really?  That's all you have?  Where are the slants?  The play action passes?  The roll-outs?  The sprint draws?

Because that's the only pass KC can consistently complete...more dependent on our receivers' athleticism and height than passing skill.  So frankly, given that his QB was (and is...and has been) terrible, that was a pretty good coaching decision. 

All of KC's passes are telegraphed...he stares down his intended receiver every time.  Since everyone on the field knows where he is throwing it's a lot more competitive and less physically dangerous for receivers to have a "jump ball." 

The slants, play action passes and roll outs are best left to a competent QB.  We have one, possibly two, on the sideline.  But that doesn't help. 

[Velodoc]

Nothing illustrates the lack of imagination in the offense than throwing four straight fade routes, for the TD, and three attempts at a 2pt conversion.  Really?  That's all you have?  Where are the slants?  The play action passes?  The roll-outs?  The sprint draws?

Because that's the only pass KC can consistently complete...more dependent on our receivers' athleticism and height than passing skill.  So frankly, given that his QB was (and is...and has been) terrible, that was a pretty good coaching decision. 

All of KC's passes are telegraphed...he stares down his intended receiver every time.  Since everyone on the field knows where he is throwing it's a lot more competitive and less physically dangerous for receivers to have a "jump ball." 

The slants, play action passes and roll outs are best left to a competent QB.  We have one, possibly two, on the sideline.  But that doesn't help.