[Goose]

[quote author=Goose link=topic=18255.msg216687#msg216687 date=1512315431]
It is time for the team and the fans to give back

What does this mean? Are you starting a collection to pay for Bryce's combine prep? How do the fans "give back" in any scenario?
[/quote]
The fan's should give back by forgoing our natural desire to see him play against TCU and encourage Love to do what he feels  is best for him.  If that means he sits out the Alamo bowl, he should know we are 100% behind him doing so. I could start a discussion about what would be "best" for Love, but that is exactly what we should not do. We should encourage him to do what he thinks is best for HIMSELF. This isn't at all like CMac last year. Love is hurt. He has been hurt since Oregon, which was October 14. He hasn't really recovered because he has gone out there in great pain to compete for Stanford. He has shown great toughness. The argument has been that playing wasn't going to cause any further damage. However, if he is actually going to the NFL, being 100% healthy when he is evaluated is probably critical. Playing in the bowl game could cost him draft position because he isn't healthy for the combine. We should make sure he understands we support his decision if he chooses not to play. We owe him that, IMHO. Whatever one thinks about CMac last year, this is a different case. There should be no carping about his choice, whatever that is. He has earned that. I don't know for sure obviously, but I think his teammates feel he has earned the right to go on the PUP list if he thinks he needs it.

[Goose]

[quote author=Goose link=topic=18255.msg216687#msg216687 date=1512315431]
It is time for the team and the fans to give back

What does this mean? Are you starting a collection to pay for Bryce's combine prep? How do the fans "give back" in any scenario?
[/quote]
The fan's should give back by forgoing our natural desire to see him play against TCU and encourage Love to do what he feels  is best for him.  If that means he sits out the Alamo bowl, he should know we are 100% behind him doing so. I could start a discussion about what would be "best" for Love, but that is exactly what we should not do. We should encourage him to do what he thinks is best for HIMSELF. This isn't at all like CMac last year. Love is hurt. He has been hurt since Oregon, which was October 14. He hasn't really recovered because he has gone out there in great pain to compete for Stanford. He has shown great toughness. The argument has been that playing wasn't going to cause any further damage. However, if he is actually going to the NFL, being 100% healthy when he is evaluated is probably critical. Playing in the bowl game could cost him draft position because he isn't healthy for the combine. We should make sure he understands we support his decision if he chooses not to play. We owe him that, IMHO. Whatever one thinks about CMac last year, this is a different case. There should be no carping about his choice, whatever that is. He has earned that. I don't know for sure obviously, but I think his teammates feel he has earned the right to go on the PUP list if he thinks he needs it.

[Snorlax94]

I have to say I find these comments a bit odd, and I’ll add they’re the type of comments I’ve gotten in the past.

This is a fan bulletin board. There is nothing wrong with people listing what they think, what they hope, what they are concerned about, what they even dream about (I think someone fantasized about one day Bryce’s children going to Stanford??) People may additionally lend their knowledge and experience based on their time at Stanford, their knowledge of various fields like medicine, their views on how the nfl works, or how the draft works, or whatever.

It’s a bulletin board, people list their opinions.

That should not be conflated with actually giving someone advice face-to-face, or abusing a position of power and giving biased information from a position of reponsibility. The players’ coaches should give them honest counsel. Their doctors should give him unbiased advice. Their nfl reports should be as accurate and dispassionate as possible. Those are examples of actual, professional advice that the players will actually listen to and weigh in their decisions.

This is just a fan board. There is nothing wrong fans on a fan board representing the view that “fans hope Bryce stays.” I think there is nothing wrong or shameful that some fans who loved their their time at Stanford, and have benefited tremendously from that experience, would (gasp!) opine that they think there are benefits to staying at Stanford.

Some Stanford fans hope Bryce Love stays (that hope may be biased!!). Some Stanford fans are upset about the refereeing at the the championship game (the shame of disrespecting officials!!) Some Stanford fans are critical of Larry Scott (how unsuportive of our league’s leadership!). Some Stanford fans dream one day Bryce Love’s children will go to Stanford (how dare they tell anyone what their reproductive choices should be, and opine on where their hypothetical children should go decades from now!!)

Dudes, this is just an anonymous, free, non-professional fan message board. This is what we do.

[Snorlax94]

I have to say I find these comments a bit odd, and I’ll add they’re the type of comments I’ve gotten in the past.

This is a fan bulletin board. There is nothing wrong with people listing what they think, what they hope, what they are concerned about, what they even dream about (I think someone fantasized about one day Bryce’s children going to Stanford??) People may additionally lend their knowledge and experience based on their time at Stanford, their knowledge of various fields like medicine, their views on how the nfl works, or how the draft works, or whatever.

It’s a bulletin board, people list their opinions.

That should not be conflated with actually giving someone advice face-to-face, or abusing a position of power and giving biased information from a position of reponsibility. The players’ coaches should give them honest counsel. Their doctors should give him unbiased advice. Their nfl reports should be as accurate and dispassionate as possible. Those are examples of actual, professional advice that the players will actually listen to and weigh in their decisions.

This is just a fan board. There is nothing wrong fans on a fan board representing the view that “fans hope Bryce stays.” I think there is nothing wrong or shameful that some fans who loved their their time at Stanford, and have benefited tremendously from that experience, would (gasp!) opine that they think there are benefits to staying at Stanford.

Some Stanford fans hope Bryce Love stays (that hope may be biased!!). Some Stanford fans are upset about the refereeing at the the championship game (the shame of disrespecting officials!!) Some Stanford fans are critical of Larry Scott (how unsuportive of our league’s leadership!). Some Stanford fans dream one day Bryce Love’s children will go to Stanford (how dare they tell anyone what their reproductive choices should be, and opine on where their hypothetical children should go decades from now!!)

Dudes, this is just an anonymous, free, non-professional fan message board. This is what we do.

[CTcard]

I could start a discussion about what would be "best" for Love, but that is exactly what we should not do. We should encourage him to do what he thinks is best for HIMSELF.

Except that you did partake in that discussion above. You wrote that if Love wants to enter the NFL draft Shaw should tell him that "he isn't going to play in the bowl game" so he can rest/heal up for NFL workouts; and if Love wants to return to Stanford then Shaw should "do the same thing for different reasons. We want him healthy for next year. "
It seems you think it is best for Love if he does not play in San Antonio.

I understand its a weird thing to talk about. It's hard to explore the issue without sounding like one is preaching.

For me, I simply won't have an opinion as to whether Love should declare for the NFL draft (it depends upon complex issues of what he is looking for both now and later, which I cannot know), and have no opinion on whether he should play on December 28 (it depends on details of his medical condition four weeks from now, which I do no know).

But it is a fan board, everyone can and will express whatever opinions they wish.

[CTcard]

I could start a discussion about what would be "best" for Love, but that is exactly what we should not do. We should encourage him to do what he thinks is best for HIMSELF.

Except that you did partake in that discussion above. You wrote that if Love wants to enter the NFL draft Shaw should tell him that "he isn't going to play in the bowl game" so he can rest/heal up for NFL workouts; and if Love wants to return to Stanford then Shaw should "do the same thing for different reasons. We want him healthy for next year. "
It seems you think it is best for Love if he does not play in San Antonio.

I understand its a weird thing to talk about. It's hard to explore the issue without sounding like one is preaching.

For me, I simply won't have an opinion as to whether Love should declare for the NFL draft (it depends upon complex issues of what he is looking for both now and later, which I cannot know), and have no opinion on whether he should play on December 28 (it depends on details of his medical condition four weeks from now, which I do no know).

But it is a fan board, everyone can and will express whatever opinions they wish.

[teejers1]

Not all of us would be "100% behind Love" if he also bailed on his teammates for the bowl game.  C'mon, people, it's a freaking competitive team sport!  Team means something, as Love's conduct to date has demonstrated.

Now, will I begrudge him for doing what he thinks is best for him?  Of course not . . . but it doesn't mean I'll support it.  BTW, at least Love has some legit cover.  But if Love does bail on the game, then the guy who needs to look in the mirror is the same 'ol, same 'ol.  How is it that Stanford RBs are quitting on their team for bowl games?  If it's due to injury, that raises its own concerns . . .

[teejers1]

Not all of us would be "100% behind Love" if he also bailed on his teammates for the bowl game.  C'mon, people, it's a freaking competitive team sport!  Team means something, as Love's conduct to date has demonstrated.

Now, will I begrudge him for doing what he thinks is best for him?  Of course not . . . but it doesn't mean I'll support it.  BTW, at least Love has some legit cover.  But if Love does bail on the game, then the guy who needs to look in the mirror is the same 'ol, same 'ol.  How is it that Stanford RBs are quitting on their team for bowl games?  If it's due to injury, that raises its own concerns . . .

[Langdude]

Wow. Again. You all are debating about something as meaningless as whether Love should play or rest his ankle for the combine when there are discussions to be had about which one of you wants to fly me to San Antonio for the Alamo Bowl? Shame on you all. Shame.

-m.

[Langdude]

Wow. Again. You all are debating about something as meaningless as whether Love should play or rest his ankle for the combine when there are discussions to be had about which one of you wants to fly me to San Antonio for the Alamo Bowl? Shame on you all. Shame.

-m.

[lex24]

If he is going to the NFL I have no problem with him sitting out. But I’m not so sure he will leave. I think there are questions about his pass receiving and his pass blocking. In the NFL he is not going to be a 20 carry a game back that gets pulled on obvious passing downs.

He might use the summer to improve those skills and be more of a “complete back” next year. Plus, after he breaks McCaffreys all purpose yards record he could become the second player in Stanford history to finish second two years in a row.....

[lex24]

If he is going to the NFL I have no problem with him sitting out. But I’m not so sure he will leave. I think there are questions about his pass receiving and his pass blocking. In the NFL he is not going to be a 20 carry a game back that gets pulled on obvious passing downs.

He might use the summer to improve those skills and be more of a “complete back” next year. Plus, after he breaks McCaffreys all purpose yards record he could become the second player in Stanford history to finish second two years in a row.....

[djones]

I expect Bryce to return for the 2018 season.

[djones]

I expect Bryce to return for the 2018 season.

[Mick]

I expect Bryce to return for the 2018 season.

If he does plan to return, then he should play in the game.

[Mick]

I expect Bryce to return for the 2018 season.

If he does plan to return, then he should play in the game.

[donkey687]

I expect Bryce to return for the 2018 season.

I think this is my favorite post in a while given I believe the source is someone who is more connected to the players than most of the posters here.  Most of the speculation to date has been from people who don't know Bryce directly. I assumed that he is gone to the NFL, but between this post and hearing the Stanford radio announcers (who should have some inside knowledge), it sounds like it is a real possibility that he returns. Good for Stanford and Bryce if he returns. Two good options for him to choose from.  I view everything from Cardinal colored glasses so I think he should return, but I don't get a vote.

[donkey687]

I expect Bryce to return for the 2018 season.

I think this is my favorite post in a while given I believe the source is someone who is more connected to the players than most of the posters here.  Most of the speculation to date has been from people who don't know Bryce directly. I assumed that he is gone to the NFL, but between this post and hearing the Stanford radio announcers (who should have some inside knowledge), it sounds like it is a real possibility that he returns. Good for Stanford and Bryce if he returns. Two good options for him to choose from.  I view everything from Cardinal colored glasses so I think he should return, but I don't get a vote.

[Goose]

[quote author=Goose link=topic=18255.msg216928#msg216928 date=1512361775]
I could start a discussion about what would be "best" for Love, but that is exactly what we should not do. We should encourage him to do what he thinks is best for HIMSELF.

Except that you did partake in that discussion above. You wrote that if Love wants to enter the NFL draft Shaw should tell him that "he isn't going to play in the bowl game" so he can rest/heal up for NFL workouts; and if Love wants to return to Stanford then Shaw should "do the same thing for different reasons. We want him healthy for next year. "
It seems you think it is best for Love if he does not play in San Antonio.

I understand its a weird thing to talk about. It's hard to explore the issue without sounding like one is preaching.

For me, I simply won't have an opinion as to whether Love should declare for the NFL draft (it depends upon complex issues of what he is looking for both now and later, which I cannot know), and have no opinion on whether he should play on December 28 (it depends on details of his medical condition four weeks from now, which I do no know).
[/quote]
OK, you got me.  :) I do think I know that high ankle sprains can take a long time to heal. Love has pretty clearly not gotten any better playing in all but one of the games since he got hurt. One could argue that was OK, as we needed him, he wanted to play, and it wouldn't do any long term damage. However, it is now getting close enough to the combine that he may not have enough time to heal if he doesn't shut down for a month. Granted, I don't know this. However, the doctors probably can't tell him that "it will take 26.5 days for you to heal" with any degree of certainty either. Therefore the risk to his NFL status (if he is going to declare) is becoming more significant. At some point, this risk becomes "too great", but it is probably impossible to know when. I do feel that the team and the fans should let Love know that he can evaluate that risk and decide not to play with our full support.
If he doesn't intend to declare, the situation is a bit different. I must admit that my emotions came into play here. There is a "team" ethos that says you do what is necessary for the team's sake. Love has done that. However, the team also owes it's members loyalty as well. Particularly at the college level (as opposed to the NFL), you shouldn't "use players up". Sometimes, guys need to sit so they can play well next year. It is a balancing act. While we had a chance at the PAC-12 title, playing Love could be justified, even in as much pain as he had to endure. I don't think that the Alamo bowl is "meaningless", but winning it matters much less (to me anyway) than winning the PAC-12 title would have. So, unless Love is 98% well in three weeks, I think he should should be held out, coach's decision. This is my opinion, not a "fact".
I have to admit that I am influenced by what happened to a player I knew in high school who basically did get "used up". At some point, the obligation of the team to the player trumps the player's obligation to the team. I think that point has been reached. Others probably do not agree.

[Goose]

[quote author=Goose link=topic=18255.msg216928#msg216928 date=1512361775]
I could start a discussion about what would be "best" for Love, but that is exactly what we should not do. We should encourage him to do what he thinks is best for HIMSELF.

Except that you did partake in that discussion above. You wrote that if Love wants to enter the NFL draft Shaw should tell him that "he isn't going to play in the bowl game" so he can rest/heal up for NFL workouts; and if Love wants to return to Stanford then Shaw should "do the same thing for different reasons. We want him healthy for next year. "
It seems you think it is best for Love if he does not play in San Antonio.

I understand its a weird thing to talk about. It's hard to explore the issue without sounding like one is preaching.

For me, I simply won't have an opinion as to whether Love should declare for the NFL draft (it depends upon complex issues of what he is looking for both now and later, which I cannot know), and have no opinion on whether he should play on December 28 (it depends on details of his medical condition four weeks from now, which I do no know).
[/quote]
OK, you got me.  :) I do think I know that high ankle sprains can take a long time to heal. Love has pretty clearly not gotten any better playing in all but one of the games since he got hurt. One could argue that was OK, as we needed him, he wanted to play, and it wouldn't do any long term damage. However, it is now getting close enough to the combine that he may not have enough time to heal if he doesn't shut down for a month. Granted, I don't know this. However, the doctors probably can't tell him that "it will take 26.5 days for you to heal" with any degree of certainty either. Therefore the risk to his NFL status (if he is going to declare) is becoming more significant. At some point, this risk becomes "too great", but it is probably impossible to know when. I do feel that the team and the fans should let Love know that he can evaluate that risk and decide not to play with our full support.
If he doesn't intend to declare, the situation is a bit different. I must admit that my emotions came into play here. There is a "team" ethos that says you do what is necessary for the team's sake. Love has done that. However, the team also owes it's members loyalty as well. Particularly at the college level (as opposed to the NFL), you shouldn't "use players up". Sometimes, guys need to sit so they can play well next year. It is a balancing act. While we had a chance at the PAC-12 title, playing Love could be justified, even in as much pain as he had to endure. I don't think that the Alamo bowl is "meaningless", but winning it matters much less (to me anyway) than winning the PAC-12 title would have. So, unless Love is 98% well in three weeks, I think he should should be held out, coach's decision. This is my opinion, not a "fact".
I have to admit that I am influenced by what happened to a player I knew in high school who basically did get "used up". At some point, the obligation of the team to the player trumps the player's obligation to the team. I think that point has been reached. Others probably do not agree.

[ColoradoTree]

I hope he plays in the bowl game, has a of exceedingly large proportions game,  returns to Stanford next season and breaks the rushing record,  wins the Hypesman, gets drafted in the 1st round, breaks records in the NFL, goes to med school,  becomes an excellent doctor, returns to Stanford as Shaw's RB coach, is elevated to HC when Shaw retires (as the winningest coach in NCAA history) with a 50 million dollar guranteed 5 year contract, and leads Stanford to 5 national championships.  ;D

What can I say?  I really like this guy and I want the best for him.

Love it!  I have to say, though, I'm not sure Bryce is going to be willing to wait to be a head coach for that long.  It took Shaw 7 seasons to get to 73 wins, so to get to 490 (one more than the great John Gagliardi of St. John's University in Minnesota), it'll be another 40 years or so, assuming he keeps up the current pace, so Shaw would be 85 then.  Of course, if he just contents himself with the Division I record, that would only take him another 33 years, so he'd be a sprightly 78.    ;)

[ColoradoTree]

I hope he plays in the bowl game, has a of exceedingly large proportions game,  returns to Stanford next season and breaks the rushing record,  wins the Hypesman, gets drafted in the 1st round, breaks records in the NFL, goes to med school,  becomes an excellent doctor, returns to Stanford as Shaw's RB coach, is elevated to HC when Shaw retires (as the winningest coach in NCAA history) with a 50 million dollar guranteed 5 year contract, and leads Stanford to 5 national championships.  ;D

What can I say?  I really like this guy and I want the best for him.

Love it!  I have to say, though, I'm not sure Bryce is going to be willing to wait to be a head coach for that long.  It took Shaw 7 seasons to get to 73 wins, so to get to 490 (one more than the great John Gagliardi of St. John's University in Minnesota), it'll be another 40 years or so, assuming he keeps up the current pace, so Shaw would be 85 then.  Of course, if he just contents himself with the Division I record, that would only take him another 33 years, so he'd be a sprightly 78.    ;)