[Stymie]

How could Shaw say "beyond his pay grade" when he is easily the highest paid employee at Stanford, well ahead of Mssrs. Muir and Tessier-Lavigne.  Is he a leader, or just a rock star.....

[Stymie]

How could Shaw say "beyond his pay grade" when he is easily the highest paid employee at Stanford, well ahead of Mssrs. Muir and Tessier-Lavigne.  Is he a leader, or just a rock star.....

[BostonCard]

I chose to not join my friends in watching the game as I had other commitments, and thus missed out at getting to walk onto the field as a 50th reunion grad, and watching Stanford "coug" it's chances to win.  As it was, the attendance was pathetic, particularly for a "home coming."

Seems odd to complain about the lack of attendance in the sentence immediately following an admission that you contributed to said lack of attendance.

BC

[BostonCard]

I chose to not join my friends in watching the game as I had other commitments, and thus missed out at getting to walk onto the field as a 50th reunion grad, and watching Stanford "coug" it's chances to win.  As it was, the attendance was pathetic, particularly for a "home coming."

Seems odd to complain about the lack of attendance in the sentence immediately following an admission that you contributed to said lack of attendance.

BC

[qwerty49]

I chose to not join my friends in watching the game as I had other commitments, and thus missed out at getting to walk onto the field as a 50th reunion grad, and watching Stanford "coug" it's chances to win.  

My 50th is coming up in a couple of years and I don't have any desire to walk out onto the field if it means getting up from my seat and missing some of the action while waiting in the tunnel.

[qwerty49]

I chose to not join my friends in watching the game as I had other commitments, and thus missed out at getting to walk onto the field as a 50th reunion grad, and watching Stanford "coug" it's chances to win.  

My 50th is coming up in a couple of years and I don't have any desire to walk out onto the field if it means getting up from my seat and missing some of the action while waiting in the tunnel.

[cardcrimson]

I chose to not join my friends in watching the game as I had other commitments, and thus missed out at getting to walk onto the field as a 50th reunion grad, and watching Stanford "coug" it's chances to win.  

My 50th is coming up in a couple of years and I don't have any desire to walk out onto the field if it means getting up from my seat and missing some of the action while waiting in the tunnel.

With all the pessimism of late, you may just want to miss some of the action in a couple of years.

[cardcrimson]

I chose to not join my friends in watching the game as I had other commitments, and thus missed out at getting to walk onto the field as a 50th reunion grad, and watching Stanford "coug" it's chances to win.  

My 50th is coming up in a couple of years and I don't have any desire to walk out onto the field if it means getting up from my seat and missing some of the action while waiting in the tunnel.

With all the pessimism of late, you may just want to miss some of the action in a couple of years.

[Bruce Wang]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E5Q7CcINC8M

[Bruce Wang]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E5Q7CcINC8M

[qwerty49]

I chose to not join my friends in watching the game as I had other commitments, and thus missed out at getting to walk onto the field as a 50th reunion grad, and watching Stanford "coug" it's chances to win.  

My 50th is coming up in a couple of years and I don't have any desire to walk out onto the field if it means getting up from my seat and missing some of the action while waiting in the tunnel.

With all the pessimism of late, you may just want to miss some of the action in a couple of years.

If we revert to the "bad old days" where 7 wins was a triumph, I'll be out there waving a pom pom up at my buddies in 235.

[qwerty49]

I chose to not join my friends in watching the game as I had other commitments, and thus missed out at getting to walk onto the field as a 50th reunion grad, and watching Stanford "coug" it's chances to win.  

My 50th is coming up in a couple of years and I don't have any desire to walk out onto the field if it means getting up from my seat and missing some of the action while waiting in the tunnel.

With all the pessimism of late, you may just want to miss some of the action in a couple of years.

If we revert to the "bad old days" where 7 wins was a triumph, I'll be out there waving a pom pom up at my buddies in 235.

[McKenwood]

Read the last post in that thread.  That year we took Mustafa Branch (ironically, from UW's back yard).  Branch and Kirven were rated comparably; if you want to be nitpicky, Kirven was rated numerically better by most services.  Of course, the staff had the advantage of seeing Branch in person during junior day; they wouldn't have been able to see Kirven until the fall.

One of the problems with saying "Palo Alto to Atherton would have been a tough drive for the coaches to see him play" is that most scholarships go out in the spring and summer, when they could have gone out and seen him play... something other than football.  They would have had to either have seen him play as a junior, offered him sight unseen, or seen him and offered him late in the cycle, which it sounds like they did.

I am as frustrated as anyone that there was a player out there that wanted to come to Stanford, and turned out to be an all-American type player at a position of need, and we wound up missing on.  This is especially true because, as others note, we have had spare scholarships.  I think our offer strategy writ large is worth discussing, and while I wasn't a fan of Harbaugh's "offer everyone and clean up the mess later" strategy, I think a good case can be made that the pendulum has swung too far in the other direction, and that we are winding up with too many unfilled scholarships way too frequently.  However, there seems to be excessive pearl clutching over a particular guy we passed on, for which there was a reasonably good explanation for why.

BC
[/quote]

BC you mentioned that you had not heard of BBK until he had already gotten to Washington. When the Bootboard was thriving the recruitment of BBK was of a topic of epic proportions when he was in high school. Members of the SHP coaching staff had tipped the Stanford staff off about BBK in his junior year. These members of the SHP staff included a former Stanford player and a parent of a walk-on in Stanford's program  so their credibility should have been pretty high with the Stanford staff. They really got no response until Peter Hansen and Lance Anderson showed up at a late season SHP game to scout BBK. By then it was too late. Besides BBK that year Stanford also missed on Ben Humphreys, a Stanford double legacy who is now a starting linebacker at Duke. I believe he made all-ACC last year.

While not approaching Willingham levels of low-key (nice way of saying lazy) recruiting, Shaw needs to overall upgrade his recruiting approach with earlier offers and greater volumes of the offers.

[McKenwood]

Read the last post in that thread.  That year we took Mustafa Branch (ironically, from UW's back yard).  Branch and Kirven were rated comparably; if you want to be nitpicky, Kirven was rated numerically better by most services.  Of course, the staff had the advantage of seeing Branch in person during junior day; they wouldn't have been able to see Kirven until the fall.

One of the problems with saying "Palo Alto to Atherton would have been a tough drive for the coaches to see him play" is that most scholarships go out in the spring and summer, when they could have gone out and seen him play... something other than football.  They would have had to either have seen him play as a junior, offered him sight unseen, or seen him and offered him late in the cycle, which it sounds like they did.

I am as frustrated as anyone that there was a player out there that wanted to come to Stanford, and turned out to be an all-American type player at a position of need, and we wound up missing on.  This is especially true because, as others note, we have had spare scholarships.  I think our offer strategy writ large is worth discussing, and while I wasn't a fan of Harbaugh's "offer everyone and clean up the mess later" strategy, I think a good case can be made that the pendulum has swung too far in the other direction, and that we are winding up with too many unfilled scholarships way too frequently.  However, there seems to be excessive pearl clutching over a particular guy we passed on, for which there was a reasonably good explanation for why.

BC
[/quote]

BC you mentioned that you had not heard of BBK until he had already gotten to Washington. When the Bootboard was thriving the recruitment of BBK was of a topic of epic proportions when he was in high school. Members of the SHP coaching staff had tipped the Stanford staff off about BBK in his junior year. These members of the SHP staff included a former Stanford player and a parent of a walk-on in Stanford's program  so their credibility should have been pretty high with the Stanford staff. They really got no response until Peter Hansen and Lance Anderson showed up at a late season SHP game to scout BBK. By then it was too late. Besides BBK that year Stanford also missed on Ben Humphreys, a Stanford double legacy who is now a starting linebacker at Duke. I believe he made all-ACC last year.

While not approaching Willingham levels of low-key (nice way of saying lazy) recruiting, Shaw needs to overall upgrade his recruiting approach with earlier offers and greater volumes of the offers.

[thunder_chik]

Austroturf wrote:  "Yes, I have often wondered the same about Harbaugh's culture vs. Shaw's culture.  Shaw is clearly the better statesman, a balanced and even-keeled "Director" of the football program.  And he knows the sport inside out and has an impressive depth of experience.  I am also sure the players really like him, certainly more than Harbaugh's players like him.  But can Shaw light a fire under the players the way Harbaugh could?  My impression is that this element has gone missing in the course of the past eight years...."

I have heard Shaw say that he doesn't see firing up the team as his job; it must come from the team.  With the exception of KJ, I don't see much passion out of our players.  "Imposing our will" doesn't seem to be in their vocabulary--certainly nowhere near the level of the TWUs or "Party in the Backfield"s of the past.  Luck used to pace along the bench/sideline firing up the team;  Skov was a firecracker.  Didn't Flacco make an eloquent rousing speech to the team after one of our losses a few years ago?  Who are the movers and shakers on this year's team?  We need some fire and brimstone at this point in the season.

I still care about Stanford football, but honestly, this team is just not very much fun to watch most of the time.  Only saw a few minutes of the UW game (IIFC, switched right after the DoG penalty) because my husband preferred the Wazzu game, and I didn't put up any argument.

[thunder_chik]

Austroturf wrote:  "Yes, I have often wondered the same about Harbaugh's culture vs. Shaw's culture.  Shaw is clearly the better statesman, a balanced and even-keeled "Director" of the football program.  And he knows the sport inside out and has an impressive depth of experience.  I am also sure the players really like him, certainly more than Harbaugh's players like him.  But can Shaw light a fire under the players the way Harbaugh could?  My impression is that this element has gone missing in the course of the past eight years...."

I have heard Shaw say that he doesn't see firing up the team as his job; it must come from the team.  With the exception of KJ, I don't see much passion out of our players.  "Imposing our will" doesn't seem to be in their vocabulary--certainly nowhere near the level of the TWUs or "Party in the Backfield"s of the past.  Luck used to pace along the bench/sideline firing up the team;  Skov was a firecracker.  Didn't Flacco make an eloquent rousing speech to the team after one of our losses a few years ago?  Who are the movers and shakers on this year's team?  We need some fire and brimstone at this point in the season.

I still care about Stanford football, but honestly, this team is just not very much fun to watch most of the time.  Only saw a few minutes of the UW game (IIFC, switched right after the DoG penalty) because my husband preferred the Wazzu game, and I didn't put up any argument.

[pcgoode]

Austroturf wrote:  "Yes, I have often wondered the same about Harbaugh's culture vs. Shaw's culture.  Shaw is clearly the better statesman, a balanced and even-keeled "Director" of the football program.  And he knows the sport inside out and has an impressive depth of experience.  I am also sure the players really like him, certainly more than Harbaugh's players like him.  But can Shaw light a fire under the players the way Harbaugh could?  My impression is that this element has gone missing in the course of the past eight years...."

I have heard Shaw say that he doesn't see firing up the team as his job; it must come from the team.  With the exception of KJ, I don't see much passion out of our players.  "Imposing our will" doesn't seem to be in their vocabulary--certainly nowhere near the level of the TWUs or "Party in the Backfield"s of the past.  Luck used to pace along the bench/sideline firing up the team;  Skov was a firecracker.  Didn't Flacco make an eloquent rousing speech to the team after one of our losses a few years ago?  Who are the movers and shakers on this year's team?  We need some fire and brimstone at this point in the season.

I still care about Stanford football, but honestly, this team is just not very much fun to watch most of the time.  Only saw a few minutes of the UW game (IIFC, switched right after the DoG penalty) because my husband preferred the Wazzu game, and I didn't put up any argument.

I have great respect for Coach Shaw, but it strikes me that Shaw picks his staff with a view to technical competence, but also with a view to people he thinks he will like and get along with. Nothing surprising about that - but I think it ultimately means that when the team recruits athletes, there may be more of a tendency to recruit personalities that the coaches find agreeable as well - and fiery, having a mean streak etc. don’t exactly come to mind when I think of Shaw and his staff. There are always exceptions - KJ is certainly a fierce, vocal competitor, but I get the sense that we don’t have enough like him on the team, particularly in the trenches.

[pcgoode]

Austroturf wrote:  "Yes, I have often wondered the same about Harbaugh's culture vs. Shaw's culture.  Shaw is clearly the better statesman, a balanced and even-keeled "Director" of the football program.  And he knows the sport inside out and has an impressive depth of experience.  I am also sure the players really like him, certainly more than Harbaugh's players like him.  But can Shaw light a fire under the players the way Harbaugh could?  My impression is that this element has gone missing in the course of the past eight years...."

I have heard Shaw say that he doesn't see firing up the team as his job; it must come from the team.  With the exception of KJ, I don't see much passion out of our players.  "Imposing our will" doesn't seem to be in their vocabulary--certainly nowhere near the level of the TWUs or "Party in the Backfield"s of the past.  Luck used to pace along the bench/sideline firing up the team;  Skov was a firecracker.  Didn't Flacco make an eloquent rousing speech to the team after one of our losses a few years ago?  Who are the movers and shakers on this year's team?  We need some fire and brimstone at this point in the season.

I still care about Stanford football, but honestly, this team is just not very much fun to watch most of the time.  Only saw a few minutes of the UW game (IIFC, switched right after the DoG penalty) because my husband preferred the Wazzu game, and I didn't put up any argument.

I have great respect for Coach Shaw, but it strikes me that Shaw picks his staff with a view to technical competence, but also with a view to people he thinks he will like and get along with. Nothing surprising about that - but I think it ultimately means that when the team recruits athletes, there may be more of a tendency to recruit personalities that the coaches find agreeable as well - and fiery, having a mean streak etc. don’t exactly come to mind when I think of Shaw and his staff. There are always exceptions - KJ is certainly a fierce, vocal competitor, but I get the sense that we don’t have enough like him on the team, particularly in the trenches.

[Hulk01]

Once more:  You couldn't play Burr-Kirven with our personnel and scheme.  He's Brandon Simmons and Ben Edwards after some extra weight room work.  

Washington's scheme--effectively two nose tackles--is built around freeing up their ILBs to make plays without having to fend off offensive linemen.  As a result, their ILBs consistently get touted as big playmakers; I heard one announcer insists that Kieshawn Bierria and Azeem Victor were the best ILB pair in the country.  Not sure what he said after he learned that Victor lost his starting job.

Again, fans here moan about Perez getting swallowed up by blocks and failing to make stops.  Perez is two inches taller and almost ten pounds heavier than Burr-Kirven, and is one of strongest players on the team.  (He got here largely on his performance in Oklahoma drills against offensive linemen.  The film is stlll around.)

Cal saw BK play and passed.  So did SC, UCLA, Oregon--most of the conference.  BK found the ideal scheme for him. 

And if you'd like, I will post last year's UW-Stanford game with annotations to the guy's missed plays.  After you watch it, you will not miss having him on our team.

[Hulk01]

Once more:  You couldn't play Burr-Kirven with our personnel and scheme.  He's Brandon Simmons and Ben Edwards after some extra weight room work.  

Washington's scheme--effectively two nose tackles--is built around freeing up their ILBs to make plays without having to fend off offensive linemen.  As a result, their ILBs consistently get touted as big playmakers; I heard one announcer insists that Kieshawn Bierria and Azeem Victor were the best ILB pair in the country.  Not sure what he said after he learned that Victor lost his starting job.

Again, fans here moan about Perez getting swallowed up by blocks and failing to make stops.  Perez is two inches taller and almost ten pounds heavier than Burr-Kirven, and is one of strongest players on the team.  (He got here largely on his performance in Oklahoma drills against offensive linemen.  The film is stlll around.)

Cal saw BK play and passed.  So did SC, UCLA, Oregon--most of the conference.  BK found the ideal scheme for him. 

And if you'd like, I will post last year's UW-Stanford game with annotations to the guy's missed plays.  After you watch it, you will not miss having him on our team.

[Hulk01]

I can no longer access the video to last year's Stanford -Washington game.
 
If any of you have it, or have access to it, here are the times for the Burr-Kirven plays for which you will be grateful, and which may coax you into never again lamenting his absence on Stanford's defense.

1st q:
4:06 Eaten up
3:27 Bites on fake, loses coverage
3:22 Eaten up
0:43 Doesn’t read the slant coming to his zone
0:03 Fails to make tackle

2nd quarter
15:00 Fails to get to Love
11:23 Takes himself out of play
Replaced for remainder of half.

3rd quarter
13;20 Blitzes, blown out of the play, Costello scrambles past him for good yards
12;22 Overwhelmed at point of attack
11:45 Misses tackle, Love goes for 21
11:14 KO’d out of play, Love goes for 12
9:15 Hammered at LOS, Love goes for 8
5:29 Knocked out, Love for 8

4th quarter
8:48 Pancaked, Love goes for TD

[Hulk01]

I can no longer access the video to last year's Stanford -Washington game.
 
If any of you have it, or have access to it, here are the times for the Burr-Kirven plays for which you will be grateful, and which may coax you into never again lamenting his absence on Stanford's defense.

1st q:
4:06 Eaten up
3:27 Bites on fake, loses coverage
3:22 Eaten up
0:43 Doesn’t read the slant coming to his zone
0:03 Fails to make tackle

2nd quarter
15:00 Fails to get to Love
11:23 Takes himself out of play
Replaced for remainder of half.

3rd quarter
13;20 Blitzes, blown out of the play, Costello scrambles past him for good yards
12;22 Overwhelmed at point of attack
11:45 Misses tackle, Love goes for 21
11:14 KO’d out of play, Love goes for 12
9:15 Hammered at LOS, Love goes for 8
5:29 Knocked out, Love for 8

4th quarter
8:48 Pancaked, Love goes for TD

[slide]

228
https://gostanford.com/roster.aspx?rp_id=14016

221
https://gohuskies.com/roster.aspx?rp_id=4878

I'm not sure if 7lbs is a brobdingnagian difference or not but I think BBK would receive significant playing time in our system.  he looks to be more decisive in his reads/decision making and appears to make more plays/miss fewer tackles.  a little silly to argue that he wouldn't make significant contributions in our scheme especially based on weight alone (Okereke is our big ILB at 234?).  after all, BBK is leading the country in tackles per game.

on the Oklahoma drill, you'd better go review.  much more impressive on the board drill.

[slide]

228
https://gostanford.com/roster.aspx?rp_id=14016

221
https://gohuskies.com/roster.aspx?rp_id=4878

I'm not sure if 7lbs is a brobdingnagian difference or not but I think BBK would receive significant playing time in our system.  he looks to be more decisive in his reads/decision making and appears to make more plays/miss fewer tackles.  a little silly to argue that he wouldn't make significant contributions in our scheme especially based on weight alone (Okereke is our big ILB at 234?).  after all, BBK is leading the country in tackles per game.

on the Oklahoma drill, you'd better go review.  much more impressive on the board drill.

[Hulk01]

Okereke gets eaten up too often on run plays, too.  That's the concern about him and Barton this year, often lamented by the critics of our defense.  Putting someone even smaller than Okereke--our prototype ILB hovers close to 240 or more-- makes no sense. 

Burr Kirven is a Washington liinebacker.  He's doing very well there this year.  And he was a great asset to us there last year.  Tape don't lie.

---

Yes, he's terrific at making reads and moving quickly.  And he plays hard.

[Hulk01]

Okereke gets eaten up too often on run plays, too.  That's the concern about him and Barton this year, often lamented by the critics of our defense.  Putting someone even smaller than Okereke--our prototype ILB hovers close to 240 or more-- makes no sense. 

Burr Kirven is a Washington liinebacker.  He's doing very well there this year.  And he was a great asset to us there last year.  Tape don't lie.

---

Yes, he's terrific at making reads and moving quickly.  And he plays hard.

[slide]

hulk -- we will have to agree to disagree about BBK.  you have 15; I'll take 25.  as you say tape doesn't lie.

on size of ILBs, we'd better change our scheme then because we are getting smaller and smaller since Martinez and Palma.  this weekend our 2 deep goes:  235, 228, 217, 207

[slide]

hulk -- we will have to agree to disagree about BBK.  you have 15; I'll take 25.  as you say tape doesn't lie.

on size of ILBs, we'd better change our scheme then because we are getting smaller and smaller since Martinez and Palma.  this weekend our 2 deep goes:  235, 228, 217, 207

[ChicagoCard]

I care. Has it rained yet this fall in Palo Alto? Is it still Indian Summer, and the field in good shape? Already near freezing in Chicago, has been damp as heck and below normal temps for I don't know how long. Just thought I'd share.

[ChicagoCard]

I care. Has it rained yet this fall in Palo Alto? Is it still Indian Summer, and the field in good shape? Already near freezing in Chicago, has been damp as heck and below normal temps for I don't know how long. Just thought I'd share.

[Stymie]

I chose to not join my friends in watching the game as I had other commitments, and thus missed out at getting to walk onto the field as a 50th reunion grad, and watching Stanford "coug" it's chances to win.  As it was, the attendance was pathetic, particularly for a "home coming."

Seems odd to complain about the lack of attendance in the sentence immediately following an admission that you contributed to said lack of attendance.

BC

Not odd, BC, but completely rational and altruistic.  I'm glad you care.

[Stymie]

I chose to not join my friends in watching the game as I had other commitments, and thus missed out at getting to walk onto the field as a 50th reunion grad, and watching Stanford "coug" it's chances to win.  As it was, the attendance was pathetic, particularly for a "home coming."

Seems odd to complain about the lack of attendance in the sentence immediately following an admission that you contributed to said lack of attendance.

BC

Not odd, BC, but completely rational and altruistic.  I'm glad you care.

[ATLcardinal]

I've been fascinated by the discussion about BBK -- I didn't follow his recruitment and found the previously linked article about him at SHP an eye-opener. I'm sure Hulk is right that he wouldn't be an All-American in Stanford's scheme, and maybe he wouldn't even start.  However, he plays with his hair on fire and holds his teammates accountable -- we could use more of that.

[ATLcardinal]

I've been fascinated by the discussion about BBK -- I didn't follow his recruitment and found the previously linked article about him at SHP an eye-opener. I'm sure Hulk is right that he wouldn't be an All-American in Stanford's scheme, and maybe he wouldn't even start.  However, he plays with his hair on fire and holds his teammates accountable -- we could use more of that.

[cardcrimson]

I've been fascinated by the discussion about BBK -- I didn't follow his recruitment and found the previously linked article about him at SHP an eye-opener. I'm sure Hulk is right that he wouldn't be an All-American in Stanford's scheme, and maybe he wouldn't even start.  However, he plays with his hair on fire and holds his teammates accountable -- we could use more of that.

And Russell Wilson and Drew Brees are too short to be quarterbacks in the NFL . . .

Anyway, my frustration, and my only frustration, was the comment that "based on inside information, we didn't offer him because we never saw him play." The kid was all state as a junior and had great grades. One would think someone would have ventured just a few miles north on a Friday night to check the kid out.

If he didn't fit into the scheme, then fine, say that and move on. Hard to argue with that. Just don't throw up some lame reason why we didn't offer him: "oh the kid was hurt, and didn't come to our camp"

[cardcrimson]

I've been fascinated by the discussion about BBK -- I didn't follow his recruitment and found the previously linked article about him at SHP an eye-opener. I'm sure Hulk is right that he wouldn't be an All-American in Stanford's scheme, and maybe he wouldn't even start.  However, he plays with his hair on fire and holds his teammates accountable -- we could use more of that.

And Russell Wilson and Drew Brees are too short to be quarterbacks in the NFL . . .

Anyway, my frustration, and my only frustration, was the comment that "based on inside information, we didn't offer him because we never saw him play." The kid was all state as a junior and had great grades. One would think someone would have ventured just a few miles north on a Friday night to check the kid out.

If he didn't fit into the scheme, then fine, say that and move on. Hard to argue with that. Just don't throw up some lame reason why we didn't offer him: "oh the kid was hurt, and didn't come to our camp"

[JJJ]

I care. Has it rained yet this fall in Palo Alto? Is it still Indian Summer, and the field in good shape? Already near freezing in Chicago, has been damp as heck and below normal temps for I don't know how long. Just thought I'd share.

Homecoming weekend was beautiful. If you were at Sunken Diamond on Sunday for the scrimmage, it was HOT. The locals were talking about rain coming soon, but not sure that has actually started. What a beautiful place.

[JJJ]

I care. Has it rained yet this fall in Palo Alto? Is it still Indian Summer, and the field in good shape? Already near freezing in Chicago, has been damp as heck and below normal temps for I don't know how long. Just thought I'd share.

Homecoming weekend was beautiful. If you were at Sunken Diamond on Sunday for the scrimmage, it was HOT. The locals were talking about rain coming soon, but not sure that has actually started. What a beautiful place.