[81alum]

I am so eager for it to be November and to get the season started.  For amusement, I thought a thread on all of our least favorite referee calls over the years would be diverting.  Anyone remember the controversy with Missy in Boise 2002?  Or the charge on Candice that should have gone the other way, ending our season? Or the times Chiney was clubbed into submission? 

1) You should name 1 and only 1 call you recall as being absolutely horrific.  No hedging.  Which one was the worst call you have ever seen go against Stanford at a WBB game.  Name the referee, if you can.

2) Explain why the call was bad from a technical point-of-view.

3) Explain the significance of the call.  A bad call in a game we went on to win fades from memory quickly.  A bad call in a game we lose by a narrow margin smarts for years.

Have at it!  MT, if he is reading, should have a field day!  :P

[81alum]

I am so eager for it to be November and to get the season started.  For amusement, I thought a thread on all of our least favorite referee calls over the years would be diverting.  Anyone remember the controversy with Missy in Boise 2002?  Or the charge on Candice that should have gone the other way, ending our season? Or the times Chiney was clubbed into submission? 

1) You should name 1 and only 1 call you recall as being absolutely horrific.  No hedging.  Which one was the worst call you have ever seen go against Stanford at a WBB game.  Name the referee, if you can.

2) Explain why the call was bad from a technical point-of-view.

3) Explain the significance of the call.  A bad call in a game we went on to win fades from memory quickly.  A bad call in a game we lose by a narrow margin smarts for years.

Have at it!  MT, if he is reading, should have a field day!  :P

[BostonCard]

Not WBB, but Stephan Taylor scored against notre Dame.

BC

[BostonCard]

Not WBB, but Stephan Taylor scored against notre Dame.

BC

[Section QQ]

Not WBB, but Stepfan Taylor scored twice against notre Dame.

BC

Fixed it for you.

[Section QQ]

Not WBB, but Stepfan Taylor scored twice against notre Dame.

BC

Fixed it for you.

[PVTree]

Simone Augustus...eliminated us from the dance.

[PVTree]

Simone Augustus...eliminated us from the dance.

[81alum]

Simone Augustus...eliminated us from the dance.

To elaborate, 

"March 27, 2006, SAN ANTONIO -- LSU's Seimone Augustus drew a charging foul with 4.8 seconds remaining and then made two free throws with 4.6 seconds remaining to send the Lady Tigers to their third-straight Women's Final Four, 62-59, over Stanford...

Off an LSU turnover, Stanford took over with 11.5 and the teams traded 30-second timeouts.

Coming out of the timeout, Wiggins dribbled past Hoston to the elbow, where her progress was stopped by Augustus as she passed to a wide-open Krista Rappahahn. The sharp-shooting Rappahahn buried the three, but the official blew the whistle for a charge long before."

At the time I was convinced that Augustus had fouled Wiggins, and done so after the pass. Rappahahn's trey would have given us a 2 point lead with about 4 seconds left. Instead we go home for the season. This call certainly had great season-altering significance, but were Augustus's feet moving? I thought they were. Anyone remember who made the call?

[81alum]

Simone Augustus...eliminated us from the dance.

To elaborate, 

"March 27, 2006, SAN ANTONIO -- LSU's Seimone Augustus drew a charging foul with 4.8 seconds remaining and then made two free throws with 4.6 seconds remaining to send the Lady Tigers to their third-straight Women's Final Four, 62-59, over Stanford...

Off an LSU turnover, Stanford took over with 11.5 and the teams traded 30-second timeouts.

Coming out of the timeout, Wiggins dribbled past Hoston to the elbow, where her progress was stopped by Augustus as she passed to a wide-open Krista Rappahahn. The sharp-shooting Rappahahn buried the three, but the official blew the whistle for a charge long before."

At the time I was convinced that Augustus had fouled Wiggins, and done so after the pass. Rappahahn's trey would have given us a 2 point lead with about 4 seconds left. Instead we go home for the season. This call certainly had great season-altering significance, but were Augustus's feet moving? I thought they were. Anyone remember who made the call?

[Griffins78]

Simone Augustus...eliminated us from the dance.

To elaborate, 

"March 27, 2006, SAN ANTONIO -- LSU's Seimone Augustus drew a charging foul with 4.8 seconds remaining and then made two free throws with 4.6 seconds remaining to send the Lady Tigers to their third-straight Women's Final Four, 62-59, over Stanford...

Off an LSU turnover, Stanford took over with 11.5 and the teams traded 30-second timeouts.

Coming out of the timeout, Wiggins dribbled past Hoston to the elbow, where her progress was stopped by Augustus as she passed to a wide-open Krista Rappahahn. The sharp-shooting Rappahahn buried the three, but the official blew the whistle for a charge long before."

That’s mine too. I still feel the pain.

[Griffins78]

Simone Augustus...eliminated us from the dance.

To elaborate, 

"March 27, 2006, SAN ANTONIO -- LSU's Seimone Augustus drew a charging foul with 4.8 seconds remaining and then made two free throws with 4.6 seconds remaining to send the Lady Tigers to their third-straight Women's Final Four, 62-59, over Stanford...

Off an LSU turnover, Stanford took over with 11.5 and the teams traded 30-second timeouts.

Coming out of the timeout, Wiggins dribbled past Hoston to the elbow, where her progress was stopped by Augustus as she passed to a wide-open Krista Rappahahn. The sharp-shooting Rappahahn buried the three, but the official blew the whistle for a charge long before."

That’s mine too. I still feel the pain.

[81alum]

I am told that Missy made a terrible call at the end of the Stanford/Colorado game in Boise, March 2002, that eliminated us from the dance.  I did not see that game--it was a sweet sixteen game.  Anybody see that game and remember that call?  Yamasaki and Powell were our two big scorers that year.  Yamasaki had an appendectomy some time before the game but played.

There was a foul on Melanie Murphy in the last minute of the A&M loss that cost us the lead, but I don't remember if it seemed like a legit foul or not.

Those are two calls with big implications, but they may or may not have been the worst calls.  I remember one game a few years ago where the other team got a couple of dozen free throws and we did not get any?  What was that game?

[81alum]

I am told that Missy made a terrible call at the end of the Stanford/Colorado game in Boise, March 2002, that eliminated us from the dance.  I did not see that game--it was a sweet sixteen game.  Anybody see that game and remember that call?  Yamasaki and Powell were our two big scorers that year.  Yamasaki had an appendectomy some time before the game but played.

There was a foul on Melanie Murphy in the last minute of the A&M loss that cost us the lead, but I don't remember if it seemed like a legit foul or not.

Those are two calls with big implications, but they may or may not have been the worst calls.  I remember one game a few years ago where the other team got a couple of dozen free throws and we did not get any?  What was that game?

[BostonCard]

Also not WBB, but his knee was down.

BC

[BostonCard]

Also not WBB, but his knee was down.

BC

[petersalas]

I am told that Missy made a terrible call at the end of the Stanford/Colorado game in Boise, March 2002, that eliminated us from the dance.  I did not see that game--it was a sweet sixteen game.  Anybody see that game and remember that call?  Yamasaki and Powell were our two big scorers that year.  Yamasaki had an appendectomy some time before the game but played.

There was a foul on Melanie Murphy in the last minute of the A&M loss that cost us the lead, but I don't remember if it seemed like a legit foul or not.

Those are two calls with big implications, but they may or may not have been the worst calls.  I remember one game a few years ago where the other team got a couple of dozen free throws and we did not get any?  What was that game?

A lot of calls in that Texas A&M game were bad calls.. Chiney got called on offensive calls or blocks every time Danielle Adams plowed into her... there’s not one specific call in that game, it just was one of the worst officiated games..

[petersalas]

I am told that Missy made a terrible call at the end of the Stanford/Colorado game in Boise, March 2002, that eliminated us from the dance.  I did not see that game--it was a sweet sixteen game.  Anybody see that game and remember that call?  Yamasaki and Powell were our two big scorers that year.  Yamasaki had an appendectomy some time before the game but played.

There was a foul on Melanie Murphy in the last minute of the A&M loss that cost us the lead, but I don't remember if it seemed like a legit foul or not.

Those are two calls with big implications, but they may or may not have been the worst calls.  I remember one game a few years ago where the other team got a couple of dozen free throws and we did not get any?  What was that game?

A lot of calls in that Texas A&M game were bad calls.. Chiney got called on offensive calls or blocks every time Danielle Adams plowed into her... there’s not one specific call in that game, it just was one of the worst officiated games..

[cardcrimson]

Also not WBB, but his knee was down.

BC

. . . .and two "laterals" traveled forward.

[cardcrimson]

Also not WBB, but his knee was down.

BC

. . . .and two "laterals" traveled forward.

[BobK]

Since I was at the Texas A&M game that stands out. Two terrible calls or one non call at the end of the game cost us

But the Taylor call takes the cake

I was also there for The Play but no instant replay so we are judging after the fact

I’ll remember the call on Wiggy forever

[BobK]

Since I was at the Texas A&M game that stands out. Two terrible calls or one non call at the end of the game cost us

But the Taylor call takes the cake

I was also there for The Play but no instant replay so we are judging after the fact

I’ll remember the call on Wiggy forever

[Viking_Guy]

The ones that stand out to me are from the most painful loss I've ever watched - vs ODU in 1997.  For a variety of reasons.

Kristin Folkl getting called and fouling out of the game for blocking balls from behind by refs who couldn't keep up with the play.  On the last one, no part of her came within 3 inches of the offensive player except her hand on top of the ball, and she was still called for a foul.  I was convinced it was purely because the male ref (Gator?) couldn't believe a woman could be that athletic.

The non-call on Clarisse Machanguana landing on top of Jamila Wideman after Jamila had faked her into the air on a three-point attempt with time running out and Stanford trailing.

More generally, the amount of body-checking that ODU was allowed to get away with in the second half, after Stanford, playing their normal game, had built up a first-half lead.  The Monarchs turned the game with their clutching, holding, and mugging of a great offensive team, and the officials "didn't want to decide the outcome" - which of course decides the outcome, when you stop calling fouls that should be called.

That team should have won the national championship, and if they had, who knows how the succeeding twenty years would've gone - that was the period when UConn, having won their first, wasn't nearly as good.  I can't help but think a different outcome might have flipped some recruits' decisions.

VG

[Viking_Guy]

The ones that stand out to me are from the most painful loss I've ever watched - vs ODU in 1997.  For a variety of reasons.

Kristin Folkl getting called and fouling out of the game for blocking balls from behind by refs who couldn't keep up with the play.  On the last one, no part of her came within 3 inches of the offensive player except her hand on top of the ball, and she was still called for a foul.  I was convinced it was purely because the male ref (Gator?) couldn't believe a woman could be that athletic.

The non-call on Clarisse Machanguana landing on top of Jamila Wideman after Jamila had faked her into the air on a three-point attempt with time running out and Stanford trailing.

More generally, the amount of body-checking that ODU was allowed to get away with in the second half, after Stanford, playing their normal game, had built up a first-half lead.  The Monarchs turned the game with their clutching, holding, and mugging of a great offensive team, and the officials "didn't want to decide the outcome" - which of course decides the outcome, when you stop calling fouls that should be called.

That team should have won the national championship, and if they had, who knows how the succeeding twenty years would've gone - that was the period when UConn, having won their first, wasn't nearly as good.  I can't help but think a different outcome might have flipped some recruits' decisions.

VG

[81alum]

The ones that stand out to me are from the most painful loss I've ever watched - vs ODU in 1997.  For a variety of reasons.

Kristin Folkl getting called and fouling out of the game for blocking balls from behind by refs who couldn't keep up with the play.  On the last one, no part of her came within 3 inches of the offensive player except her hand on top of the ball, and she was still called for a foul.  I was convinced it was purely because the male ref (Gator?) couldn't believe a woman could be that athletic.

The non-call on Clarisse Machanguana landing on top of Jamila Wideman after Jamila had faked her into the air on a three-point attempt with time running out and Stanford trailing.

More generally, the amount of body-checking that ODU was allowed to get away with in the second half, after Stanford, playing their normal game, had built up a first-half lead.  The Monarchs turned the game with their clutching, holding, and mugging of a great offensive team, and the officials "didn't want to decide the outcome" - which of course decides the outcome, when you stop calling fouls that should be called.

That team should have won the national championship, and if they had, who knows how the succeeding twenty years would've gone - that was the period when UConn, having won their first, wasn't nearly as good.  I can't help but think a different outcome might have flipped some recruits' decisions.

VG

An overtime game, no?  And it may well have shifted momentum for the program for the years ahead. I also see that we lost to Old Dominion by a large margin very early that season--the two losses to Old Dominion were our only losses that year.

Anyone know how to get boxscores for WBB games that predate 2007?  The Stanford site has posted annual statistics, and back to 2007 they have posted links to the boxscores for every game.  But they used a different format prior to 2007 and there are no links to boxscores.  So....if I wanted to see the boxscore for the Old Dominion game in 97 or the Colorado game in 2002, where would I find them?

[81alum]

The ones that stand out to me are from the most painful loss I've ever watched - vs ODU in 1997.  For a variety of reasons.

Kristin Folkl getting called and fouling out of the game for blocking balls from behind by refs who couldn't keep up with the play.  On the last one, no part of her came within 3 inches of the offensive player except her hand on top of the ball, and she was still called for a foul.  I was convinced it was purely because the male ref (Gator?) couldn't believe a woman could be that athletic.

The non-call on Clarisse Machanguana landing on top of Jamila Wideman after Jamila had faked her into the air on a three-point attempt with time running out and Stanford trailing.

More generally, the amount of body-checking that ODU was allowed to get away with in the second half, after Stanford, playing their normal game, had built up a first-half lead.  The Monarchs turned the game with their clutching, holding, and mugging of a great offensive team, and the officials "didn't want to decide the outcome" - which of course decides the outcome, when you stop calling fouls that should be called.

That team should have won the national championship, and if they had, who knows how the succeeding twenty years would've gone - that was the period when UConn, having won their first, wasn't nearly as good.  I can't help but think a different outcome might have flipped some recruits' decisions.

VG

An overtime game, no?  And it may well have shifted momentum for the program for the years ahead. I also see that we lost to Old Dominion by a large margin very early that season--the two losses to Old Dominion were our only losses that year.

Anyone know how to get boxscores for WBB games that predate 2007?  The Stanford site has posted annual statistics, and back to 2007 they have posted links to the boxscores for every game.  But they used a different format prior to 2007 and there are no links to boxscores.  So....if I wanted to see the boxscore for the Old Dominion game in 97 or the Colorado game in 2002, where would I find them?

[Phogge]

November 16, 1940 Cornell vs Dartmouth. The original fifth down game.

[Phogge]

November 16, 1940 Cornell vs Dartmouth. The original fifth down game.

[BostonCard]

Not WBB, or even Stanford related, but the "hand of God".

BC

[BostonCard]

Not WBB, or even Stanford related, but the "hand of God".

BC

[triangle2]

Not Stanford WBB, but I had the misfortune of attending the USC-Washington game on 1/3/97 in Seattle when Violet Palmer disgraced herself by calling a phantom shooting foul on Elise Niemela at half court with time expiring and UW up by 2 points. Three foul shots later, USC walked out the winner. Back then, Hec Ed sold out regularly, so a near capacity crowd showered the court with trash. Never forgotten that one because it's a different experience to see horrible officiating in person.

Otherwise, I'd have to agree with the Wiggins foul at the end of the LSU game. I can't ever get Rappahahn's look of despair out of my brain after her shot was waived off.

[triangle2]

Not Stanford WBB, but I had the misfortune of attending the USC-Washington game on 1/3/97 in Seattle when Violet Palmer disgraced herself by calling a phantom shooting foul on Elise Niemela at half court with time expiring and UW up by 2 points. Three foul shots later, USC walked out the winner. Back then, Hec Ed sold out regularly, so a near capacity crowd showered the court with trash. Never forgotten that one because it's a different experience to see horrible officiating in person.

Otherwise, I'd have to agree with the Wiggins foul at the end of the LSU game. I can't ever get Rappahahn's look of despair out of my brain after her shot was waived off.

[Viking_Guy]

The thing with the Augustus play was that Seimone crossed her arms in front of her chest to draw the charge - thereby extending her "body" a good 10-12 inches in front of her chest into Wiggins' path.  When Candice hit her stopping point (which wouldn't have contacted Augustus' body), those crossed arms were what took the "impact" that Seimone made a meal out of.

I can't remember - was Missy working that game?

VG

[Viking_Guy]

The thing with the Augustus play was that Seimone crossed her arms in front of her chest to draw the charge - thereby extending her "body" a good 10-12 inches in front of her chest into Wiggins' path.  When Candice hit her stopping point (which wouldn't have contacted Augustus' body), those crossed arms were what took the "impact" that Seimone made a meal out of.

I can't remember - was Missy working that game?

VG

[jonnyss]

The ones that stand out to me are from the most painful loss I've ever watched - vs ODU in 1997.  For a variety of reasons.

Kristin Folkl getting called and fouling out of the game for blocking balls from behind by refs who couldn't keep up with the play.  On the last one, no part of her came within 3 inches of the offensive player except her hand on top of the ball, and she was still called for a foul.  I was convinced it was purely because the male ref (Gator?) couldn't believe a woman could be that athletic.

The non-call on Clarisse Machanguana landing on top of Jamila Wideman after Jamila had faked her into the air on a three-point attempt with time running out and Stanford trailing.

More generally, the amount of body-checking that ODU was allowed to get away with in the second half, after Stanford, playing their normal game, had built up a first-half lead.  The Monarchs turned the game with their clutching, holding, and mugging of a great offensive team, and the officials "didn't want to decide the outcome" - which of course decides the outcome, when you stop calling fouls that should be called.

That team should have won the national championship, and if they had, who knows how the succeeding twenty years would've gone - that was the period when UConn, having won their first, wasn't nearly as good.  I can't help but think a different outcome might have flipped some recruits' decisions.

VG

i would have to agree that the final foul call on kristin folkl was the worst call ever. i remember it exactly as  you do. all ball, not even close, and game-changing.

i have thought of the wideman-machanguana play many times over the years. i understand it slightly differently. to my memory, clarisse came flying out at jamilla, who gracefully stepped to the right, out of clarisse's path, and fired off a 3 that missed. in my mind i replay it just like your memory, that jamilla stands firm and lets clarissa flatten her,  then sinks the resulting free throws. but i understand my imagery to be what i wish had happened rather than what (i believe) actually did happen: jamila side-stepping.

[jonnyss]

The ones that stand out to me are from the most painful loss I've ever watched - vs ODU in 1997.  For a variety of reasons.

Kristin Folkl getting called and fouling out of the game for blocking balls from behind by refs who couldn't keep up with the play.  On the last one, no part of her came within 3 inches of the offensive player except her hand on top of the ball, and she was still called for a foul.  I was convinced it was purely because the male ref (Gator?) couldn't believe a woman could be that athletic.

The non-call on Clarisse Machanguana landing on top of Jamila Wideman after Jamila had faked her into the air on a three-point attempt with time running out and Stanford trailing.

More generally, the amount of body-checking that ODU was allowed to get away with in the second half, after Stanford, playing their normal game, had built up a first-half lead.  The Monarchs turned the game with their clutching, holding, and mugging of a great offensive team, and the officials "didn't want to decide the outcome" - which of course decides the outcome, when you stop calling fouls that should be called.

That team should have won the national championship, and if they had, who knows how the succeeding twenty years would've gone - that was the period when UConn, having won their first, wasn't nearly as good.  I can't help but think a different outcome might have flipped some recruits' decisions.

VG

i would have to agree that the final foul call on kristin folkl was the worst call ever. i remember it exactly as  you do. all ball, not even close, and game-changing.

i have thought of the wideman-machanguana play many times over the years. i understand it slightly differently. to my memory, clarisse came flying out at jamilla, who gracefully stepped to the right, out of clarisse's path, and fired off a 3 that missed. in my mind i replay it just like your memory, that jamilla stands firm and lets clarissa flatten her,  then sinks the resulting free throws. but i understand my imagery to be what i wish had happened rather than what (i believe) actually did happen: jamila side-stepping.

[Viking_Guy]

Jonny--

My memory of the play is upfake by Wideman at the right wing, Machanguana flies out of the lane at her arms up but having left the floor, and Jamila moves slightly to the right (with her typical basketball IQ) so that she can get the shot up underneath Machanguana's left arm AND still draw the contact on the 3 point shot - especially given that WIdeman was on the order of a 90% FT shooter.  Maybe anticipating James Harden by a few years.  The image I think of when I get nauseous as people intone "the refs shouldn't decide the game."  No whistle in that situation DOES decide the game.

The other image that sticks in my head is from either the end of the game (I think this was it) or the end of overtime.  I believe it was Jamila again, penetrating and putting up a contested shot in the lane... but her penetration had left Kate Starbird ALONE on the right baseline at about 8 feet. Instead of dishing to our then all-time leading scorer for a shot that was pretty much money for the original Bird all season long, she shot herself, and missed.  That was one of my earliest memories of "Stanford has some ugly end-of-clock tendencies."

But the key turning point was Folkl fouling out toward the end of regulation.  She had such a marked physical advantage over anyone on the court, but the officiating hadn't caught up to "yes, women ARE that athletic."

VG

[Viking_Guy]

Jonny--

My memory of the play is upfake by Wideman at the right wing, Machanguana flies out of the lane at her arms up but having left the floor, and Jamila moves slightly to the right (with her typical basketball IQ) so that she can get the shot up underneath Machanguana's left arm AND still draw the contact on the 3 point shot - especially given that WIdeman was on the order of a 90% FT shooter.  Maybe anticipating James Harden by a few years.  The image I think of when I get nauseous as people intone "the refs shouldn't decide the game."  No whistle in that situation DOES decide the game.

The other image that sticks in my head is from either the end of the game (I think this was it) or the end of overtime.  I believe it was Jamila again, penetrating and putting up a contested shot in the lane... but her penetration had left Kate Starbird ALONE on the right baseline at about 8 feet. Instead of dishing to our then all-time leading scorer for a shot that was pretty much money for the original Bird all season long, she shot herself, and missed.  That was one of my earliest memories of "Stanford has some ugly end-of-clock tendencies."

But the key turning point was Folkl fouling out toward the end of regulation.  She had such a marked physical advantage over anyone on the court, but the officiating hadn't caught up to "yes, women ARE that athletic."

VG

[BostonCard]

Jonyss is right.  Not much of a fake by Wideman; mostly it's that Machanguana was trying to close on her fast. Wideman squares up but steps out as Machanguana is flying towards her.  Here's the play:

https://youtu.be/BgWiUh_27u8?t=6752

Note that Wideman does get clipped as she moves out of the way of the oncoming defender, and it did force her to shoot without her hips being square to the basket, but it's a stretch to say that she was "flattened".  Though the contact likely affected her shot,  it's something most refs won't call.

BC

[BostonCard]

Jonyss is right.  Not much of a fake by Wideman; mostly it's that Machanguana was trying to close on her fast. Wideman squares up but steps out as Machanguana is flying towards her.  Here's the play:

https://youtu.be/BgWiUh_27u8?t=6752

Note that Wideman does get clipped as she moves out of the way of the oncoming defender, and it did force her to shoot without her hips being square to the basket, but it's a stretch to say that she was "flattened".  Though the contact likely affected her shot,  it's something most refs won't call.

BC