[Phogge]

Just who is going to give up prospects for Belt? If you deal Watson, Smith, Bum just include him in the deal. Addition by subtraction. I am tired of all the takes. Williams was often criticized for taking walks when he could have gone out of the zone with runners on. However Belt and Williams hit in different galaxies. Plus you can’t deal both Smith and Watson unless you are running up the “WE quit” flag. Trading guys when you have a chance and you are playing watchable baseball will be toxic. Retreat hell!

[Phogge]

Just who is going to give up prospects for Belt? If you deal Watson, Smith, Bum just include him in the deal. Addition by subtraction. I am tired of all the takes. Williams was often criticized for taking walks when he could have gone out of the zone with runners on. However Belt and Williams hit in different galaxies. Plus you can’t deal both Smith and Watson unless you are running up the “WE quit” flag. Trading guys when you have a chance and you are playing watchable baseball will be toxic. Retreat hell!

[Leftcoast]

Well .... the Giants have won from the wildcard position before.  I'm sure some fans were counseling "sell" in those years too.  

In the 2010 "torture" season, that fan was me. Now I say playoff runs are precious - just get in to the playoffs and enjoy the ride.

[Leftcoast]

Well .... the Giants have won from the wildcard position before.  I'm sure some fans were counseling "sell" in those years too.  

In the 2010 "torture" season, that fan was me. Now I say playoff runs are precious - just get in to the playoffs and enjoy the ride.

[BobK]

Phogge nails it. Chemistry is awesome right now. Don’t screw with it

Got to be smart. Just a reminder Clint Hurdle was a can’t miss. Can’t ever be sure

[BobK]

Phogge nails it. Chemistry is awesome right now. Don’t screw with it

Got to be smart. Just a reminder Clint Hurdle was a can’t miss. Can’t ever be sure

[cardcrimson]

Phogge nails it.  Chemistry is awesome right now. Don’t screw with it

Got to be smart.  Just a reminder Clint Hurdle was a can’t miss.    Can’t ever be sure

This date in baseball, 2010: Giants 11 games over 500, leading the wild card and 3 games behind the Padres.

This date in baseball, 2012: Giants 12 games over 500, leading the Western Division

This date in baseball, 2014: Giants 14 games over 500, leading the Western Division

I feel like I'm watching a game show on TV. Great winning streak, right up until the wheel hits bankrupt or the 1,000,000 case is opened.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_asNhzXq72w

[cardcrimson]

Phogge nails it.  Chemistry is awesome right now. Don’t screw with it

Got to be smart.  Just a reminder Clint Hurdle was a can’t miss.    Can’t ever be sure

This date in baseball, 2010: Giants 11 games over 500, leading the wild card and 3 games behind the Padres.

This date in baseball, 2012: Giants 12 games over 500, leading the Western Division

This date in baseball, 2014: Giants 14 games over 500, leading the Western Division

I feel like I'm watching a game show on TV. Great winning streak, right up until the wheel hits bankrupt or the 1,000,000 case is opened.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_asNhzXq72w

[Phogge]

I think Clint Hartung was the can't miss. He was going to be Johnny Lindell on steroids. He scored the first run on Thomson's homer after pinch running when Don Mueller broke his leg sliding into third.

---

Interesting... just watched the Thomson HR and when Lockman doubles neither the home plate ump nor Campy watch to see if Hartung touches the plate.

[Phogge]

I think Clint Hartung was the can't miss. He was going to be Johnny Lindell on steroids. He scored the first run on Thomson's homer after pinch running when Don Mueller broke his leg sliding into third.

---

Interesting... just watched the Thomson HR and when Lockman doubles neither the home plate ump nor Campy watch to see if Hartung touches the plate.

[BobK]

Got me again Phogge

[BobK]

Got me again Phogge

[lex24]

I don’t understand baseball anymore. 4-4. Bottom ten. Pillar leads off with a double. Panik up. He is, I believe the worst offensive regular in baseball. He has to bunt. Right? He didn’t. Well he tried once. Pops out. Giants don’t score.

[lex24]

I don’t understand baseball anymore. 4-4. Bottom ten. Pillar leads off with a double. Panik up. He is, I believe the worst offensive regular in baseball. He has to bunt. Right? He didn’t. Well he tried once. Pops out. Giants don’t score.

[BostonCard]

I don’t understand baseball anymore. 4-4. Bottom ten. Pillar leads off with a double. Panik up. He is, I believe the worst offensive regular in baseball. He has to bunt. Right?  He didn’t. Well he tried once. Pops out. Giants don’t score.

But a walk-off home run by Sandoval in the 13th gives the Giants the win again.  Giants now at 52-50, 2 games back from the second wildcard.

BC

[BostonCard]

I don’t understand baseball anymore. 4-4. Bottom ten. Pillar leads off with a double. Panik up. He is, I believe the worst offensive regular in baseball. He has to bunt. Right?  He didn’t. Well he tried once. Pops out. Giants don’t score.

But a walk-off home run by Sandoval in the 13th gives the Giants the win again.  Giants now at 52-50, 2 games back from the second wildcard.

BC

[Phogge]

Bunting is not that hard. Plus he got a breaking ball down which is the easiest pitch to bunt on. Your mindset is GIVE YOURSELF UP. Technically you let the ball come to you, you don’t go after it. Holy crap I did it twice in a game against Messersmith, both of them down the line. Panik has ten times the skill I had. Just a horrible failure.

That said... HUH RAH!

[Phogge]

Bunting is not that hard. Plus he got a breaking ball down which is the easiest pitch to bunt on. Your mindset is GIVE YOURSELF UP. Technically you let the ball come to you, you don’t go after it. Holy crap I did it twice in a game against Messersmith, both of them down the line. Panik has ten times the skill I had. Just a horrible failure.

That said... HUH RAH!

[BostonCard]

FWIW, Fangraphs gives the Giants just a 7.2% chance of making the playoffs, so logic says sell.

BC

[BostonCard]

FWIW, Fangraphs gives the Giants just a 7.2% chance of making the playoffs, so logic says sell.

BC

[Mick]

16-3 in July, fourth extra inning win, "they think they can beat any body" - Krukow,  featuring lockdown relief pitching.  Bum struck out seven, relievers struck out eight.  Slater had a walk in a pinch hit appearance.

Giants are 10-2 in extra innings this year, surpassed Arizona, one game back of Milwaukee in the win column for the wild card.  30-16 since June 1.  If they keep that percentage over the remaining 60 games, they will finish with a 91-61 record.  And that's good enough for the NL wild card eight of the past ten years (NL Central winning records would have made that 10 of 10).

Only Milwaukee, St. Louis and Philadelphia between the Giants and the wild card spot.  Giants are in Philly very soon, I have seats behind the dugout on July 30.

Can they keep it up?

[Mick]

16-3 in July, fourth extra inning win, "they think they can beat any body" - Krukow,  featuring lockdown relief pitching.  Bum struck out seven, relievers struck out eight.  Slater had a walk in a pinch hit appearance.

Giants are 10-2 in extra innings this year, surpassed Arizona, one game back of Milwaukee in the win column for the wild card.  30-16 since June 1.  If they keep that percentage over the remaining 60 games, they will finish with a 91-61 record.  And that's good enough for the NL wild card eight of the past ten years (NL Central winning records would have made that 10 of 10).

Only Milwaukee, St. Louis and Philadelphia between the Giants and the wild card spot.  Giants are in Philly very soon, I have seats behind the dugout on July 30.

Can they keep it up?

[lex24]

The best bunters almost catch the ball with the bat. Brett Butler was the best Giant bunter I ever saw. What a terrific leadoff hitter. Would he even get a shot in today’s game? Best I’ve ever seen was Carew. An artist with the bat.

Messersmith eh? Impressive. Great pitcher.

Bunting is not that hard. Plus he got a breaking ball down which is the easiest pitch to bunt on. Your mindset is GIVE YOURSELF UP. Technically you let the ball come to you, you don’t go after it. Holy crap I did it twice in a game against Messersmith, both of them down the line. Panik has ten times the skill I had. Just a horrible failure.

That said... HUH RAH!

[lex24]

The best bunters almost catch the ball with the bat. Brett Butler was the best Giant bunter I ever saw. What a terrific leadoff hitter. Would he even get a shot in today’s game? Best I’ve ever seen was Carew. An artist with the bat.

Messersmith eh? Impressive. Great pitcher.

Bunting is not that hard. Plus he got a breaking ball down which is the easiest pitch to bunt on. Your mindset is GIVE YOURSELF UP. Technically you let the ball come to you, you don’t go after it. Holy crap I did it twice in a game against Messersmith, both of them down the line. Panik has ten times the skill I had. Just a horrible failure.

That said... HUH RAH!

[OutsiderFan]

FWIW, Fangraphs gives the Giants just a 7.2% chance of making the playoffs, so logic says sell.

BC

That is double what the chance was a month ago. And once again, it's not the same team as the first two months of the season.

I don't think the issue is if the Giants can make the playoffs. It looks like they can. The real issue is balancing what they value in the near and longer term against what opportunity cost they are willing to endure now? Because anything the Giants do or don't do at the trade deadline is almost certainly going to carry some benefit now/later and some opportunity cost now/later.

At this point I don't think Fangraphs projections are all that meaningful, because as much as people try to reduce things to numbers, the reality is humans are not robots. Emotions, player adjustments, coaching, and team dynamics play a role in performance that can't be calculated.

[OutsiderFan]

FWIW, Fangraphs gives the Giants just a 7.2% chance of making the playoffs, so logic says sell.

BC

That is double what the chance was a month ago. And once again, it's not the same team as the first two months of the season.

I don't think the issue is if the Giants can make the playoffs. It looks like they can. The real issue is balancing what they value in the near and longer term against what opportunity cost they are willing to endure now? Because anything the Giants do or don't do at the trade deadline is almost certainly going to carry some benefit now/later and some opportunity cost now/later.

At this point I don't think Fangraphs projections are all that meaningful, because as much as people try to reduce things to numbers, the reality is humans are not robots. Emotions, player adjustments, coaching, and team dynamics play a role in performance that can't be calculated.

[OutsiderFan]

One of the greatest stereotypes in sports is the talk radio caller suggesting trades for teams to make.  It's a negative one because usually "sports talk radio trades" are grounded in fantasy and renowned for being proposed by less than objective fans.  

But this isn't sports talk radio, and I'm grounded in objectivity, or at least try to be.  So here's a trade that would make oodles of sense for the Giants and Red Sox:

LHP Will Smith to Red Sox
LH 2B Brock Holt to Giants

Why? Here are the biggest reasons:

- The Red Sox have the best offense in MLB, but their bullpen is kind of a disaster right now
- Panik stinks, the Giants have a very good bullpen, their best MLB-ready pitching prospects are relievers, and they need an offensive boost
- Holt is hitting .344 this season and he can also play 1B
- Smith would have the 2nd best ERA on the Red Sox at 2.44
- Holt struggles against LHP, but rakes RHP, making him a perfect platoon compliment to Solano who is hitting .397 vs LHP
- Red Sox gets a guy who can set-up or close against both RH and LH hitters
- Giants get a .300+ hitter at the top of the order to get on base every game they play
- Both guys are 30-31 and on expiring contracts (Panik is arbitration-eligible)

What's not to like? 
 
You could then move Belt and platoon Holt and Green at 1B. Then you have Longoria and Sandoval at 3B when he returns. And remember, the backdrop to everything is only the Giants get to add Johnny Cueto to the rotation in September. https://www.cbssports.com/fantasy/baseba...e-hitters/

[OutsiderFan]

One of the greatest stereotypes in sports is the talk radio caller suggesting trades for teams to make.  It's a negative one because usually "sports talk radio trades" are grounded in fantasy and renowned for being proposed by less than objective fans.  

But this isn't sports talk radio, and I'm grounded in objectivity, or at least try to be.  So here's a trade that would make oodles of sense for the Giants and Red Sox:

LHP Will Smith to Red Sox
LH 2B Brock Holt to Giants

Why? Here are the biggest reasons:

- The Red Sox have the best offense in MLB, but their bullpen is kind of a disaster right now
- Panik stinks, the Giants have a very good bullpen, their best MLB-ready pitching prospects are relievers, and they need an offensive boost
- Holt is hitting .344 this season and he can also play 1B
- Smith would have the 2nd best ERA on the Red Sox at 2.44
- Holt struggles against LHP, but rakes RHP, making him a perfect platoon compliment to Solano who is hitting .397 vs LHP
- Red Sox gets a guy who can set-up or close against both RH and LH hitters
- Giants get a .300+ hitter at the top of the order to get on base every game they play
- Both guys are 30-31 and on expiring contracts (Panik is arbitration-eligible)

What's not to like? 
 
You could then move Belt and platoon Holt and Green at 1B. Then you have Longoria and Sandoval at 3B when he returns. And remember, the backdrop to everything is only the Giants get to add Johnny Cueto to the rotation in September. https://www.cbssports.com/fantasy/baseba...e-hitters/

[BobK]

An oh so close to a walk off by Pillar then the Panda does it. What great fun this is

A standing O for Bum

Do you believe in miracles?

Outsider my dream is they sign Smith for the next three years.

[BobK]

An oh so close to a walk off by Pillar then the Panda does it. What great fun this is

A standing O for Bum

Do you believe in miracles?

Outsider my dream is they sign Smith for the next three years.

[OutsiderFan]

Bob, are you familiar with the relief pitching prospects in the Giants farm system?  Coonrod is one of those guys I speak about when referencing depth of relief pitching in the system.  

Smith is valuable for sure, but if you can't trade him and fill in with other guys, how does the team get improved much for the stretch run in the next week? He can still be re-signed as a Free Agent after this season.

[OutsiderFan]

Bob, are you familiar with the relief pitching prospects in the Giants farm system?  Coonrod is one of those guys I speak about when referencing depth of relief pitching in the system.  

Smith is valuable for sure, but if you can't trade him and fill in with other guys, how does the team get improved much for the stretch run in the next week? He can still be re-signed as a Free Agent after this season.

[BostonCard]

A good measure of this is the “Doyle number”

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the...-deadline/

By this measure the Giants should be selling.

BC

[BostonCard]

A good measure of this is the “Doyle number”

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the...-deadline/

By this measure the Giants should be selling.

BC

[Phogge]

A good measure of this is the “Doyle number”

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the...-deadline/

By this measure the Giants should be selling.

BC

I would rather get my odds from Doyle Brunson.

[Phogge]

A good measure of this is the “Doyle number”

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the...-deadline/

By this measure the Giants should be selling.

BC

I would rather get my odds from Doyle Brunson.

[lex24]

Sam Selman has tremendous numbers at Sac. Big K numbers. Fernando Abad has been decent. Both lefties. Selmen yet another Vandy guy. He’s 28. Abad is 32 with some MLB experience. They also have a right handed submariner, Tyler Rogers, he’s 28. Had excellent years at Sac in ‘17 and ‘18. Hasn’t been as good this year.

I suspect all three will be up at some point. Not kids. Like Yaz Dickerson Slater Solano Vogt. Been around a while.

Giants have a pretty big gap between late 20’s guys like these and their top prospects, BART, Heliot Ramos and Luciano (17). Best overall pitching prospects are young - Gregory Santos (19) and Sean Hjelle a 6’11 righthander. Also Logan Webb. He got derailed a bit by a PED suspension.

Bob, are you familiar with the relief pitching prospects in the Giants farm system?  Coonrod is one of those guys I speak about when referencing depth of relief pitching in the system.  

Smith is valuable for sure, but if you can't trade him and fill in with other guys, how does the team get improved much for the stretch run in the next week? He can still be re-signed as a Free Agent after this season.

[lex24]

Sam Selman has tremendous numbers at Sac. Big K numbers. Fernando Abad has been decent. Both lefties. Selmen yet another Vandy guy. He’s 28. Abad is 32 with some MLB experience. They also have a right handed submariner, Tyler Rogers, he’s 28. Had excellent years at Sac in ‘17 and ‘18. Hasn’t been as good this year.

I suspect all three will be up at some point. Not kids. Like Yaz Dickerson Slater Solano Vogt. Been around a while.

Giants have a pretty big gap between late 20’s guys like these and their top prospects, BART, Heliot Ramos and Luciano (17). Best overall pitching prospects are young - Gregory Santos (19) and Sean Hjelle a 6’11 righthander. Also Logan Webb. He got derailed a bit by a PED suspension.

Bob, are you familiar with the relief pitching prospects in the Giants farm system?  Coonrod is one of those guys I speak about when referencing depth of relief pitching in the system.  

Smith is valuable for sure, but if you can't trade him and fill in with other guys, how does the team get improved much for the stretch run in the next week? He can still be re-signed as a Free Agent after this season.

[Mick]

The best bunters  almost catch the ball with the bat. Brett Butler was the best Giant bunter I ever saw. What a terrific leadoff hitter.  Would he even get a shot in today’s game? 

Butler would definitely get a shot in today's game because he could get on base.  Scored over 100 runs six times, including all three years as a Giant. Career .290/.377 BA/OBP, who rarely struck out.  Long career, led the league 14 different times in different categories, including most stolen bases (3) and most triples (4).  Probably have a field day at AT&T.  He was an all-star just once, and was a Dodger more than twice as long as he was a Giant.  An above-average outfielder, great range, average arm, just 41 errors in 17 seasons.

---

One of the greatest stereotypes in sports is the talk radio caller suggesting trades for teams to make.  It's a negative one because usually "sports talk radio trades" are grounded in fantasy and renowned for being proposed by less than objective fans.  

But this isn't sports talk radio, and I'm grounded in objectivity, or at least try to be.  So here's a trade that would make oodles of sense for the Giants and Red Sox:

LHP Will Smith to Red Sox
LH 2B Brock Holt to Giants

Why? Here are the biggest reasons:

- The Red Sox have the best offense in MLB, but their bullpen is kind of a disaster right now
- Panik stinks, the Giants have a very good bullpen, their best MLB-ready pitching prospects are relievers, and they need an offensive boost
- Holt is hitting .344 this season and he can also play 1B
- Smith would have the 2nd best ERA on the Red Sox at 2.44
- Holt struggles against LHP, but rakes RHP, making him a perfect platoon compliment to Solano who is hitting .397 vs LHP
- Red Sox gets a guy who can set-up or close against both RH and LH hitters
- Giants get a .300+ hitter at the top of the order to get on base every game they play
- Both guys are 30-31 and on expiring contracts (Panik is arbitration-eligible)

What's not to like? 
 
You could then move Belt and platoon Holt and Green at 1B. Then you have Longoria and Sandoval at 3B when he returns. And remember, the backdrop to everything is only the Giants get to add Johnny Cueto to the rotation in September. https://www.cbssports.com/fantasy/baseba...e-hitters/

I read that they were considering a similar trade for those reasons, but Smith to the Rays for Mike Brosseau.  He's utility, batting .309, 4 HRs in 62 ABs.

---

A good measure of this is the “Doyle number”

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the...-deadline/

By this measure the Giants should be selling.

BC

I would rather get my odds from Doyle Brunson.

I want mine from Doyle Lonnegan.

[Mick]

The best bunters  almost catch the ball with the bat. Brett Butler was the best Giant bunter I ever saw. What a terrific leadoff hitter.  Would he even get a shot in today’s game? 

Butler would definitely get a shot in today's game because he could get on base.  Scored over 100 runs six times, including all three years as a Giant. Career .290/.377 BA/OBP, who rarely struck out.  Long career, led the league 14 different times in different categories, including most stolen bases (3) and most triples (4).  Probably have a field day at AT&T.  He was an all-star just once, and was a Dodger more than twice as long as he was a Giant.  An above-average outfielder, great range, average arm, just 41 errors in 17 seasons.

---

One of the greatest stereotypes in sports is the talk radio caller suggesting trades for teams to make.  It's a negative one because usually "sports talk radio trades" are grounded in fantasy and renowned for being proposed by less than objective fans.  

But this isn't sports talk radio, and I'm grounded in objectivity, or at least try to be.  So here's a trade that would make oodles of sense for the Giants and Red Sox:

LHP Will Smith to Red Sox
LH 2B Brock Holt to Giants

Why? Here are the biggest reasons:

- The Red Sox have the best offense in MLB, but their bullpen is kind of a disaster right now
- Panik stinks, the Giants have a very good bullpen, their best MLB-ready pitching prospects are relievers, and they need an offensive boost
- Holt is hitting .344 this season and he can also play 1B
- Smith would have the 2nd best ERA on the Red Sox at 2.44
- Holt struggles against LHP, but rakes RHP, making him a perfect platoon compliment to Solano who is hitting .397 vs LHP
- Red Sox gets a guy who can set-up or close against both RH and LH hitters
- Giants get a .300+ hitter at the top of the order to get on base every game they play
- Both guys are 30-31 and on expiring contracts (Panik is arbitration-eligible)

What's not to like? 
 
You could then move Belt and platoon Holt and Green at 1B. Then you have Longoria and Sandoval at 3B when he returns. And remember, the backdrop to everything is only the Giants get to add Johnny Cueto to the rotation in September. https://www.cbssports.com/fantasy/baseba...e-hitters/

I read that they were considering a similar trade for those reasons, but Smith to the Rays for Mike Brosseau.  He's utility, batting .309, 4 HRs in 62 ABs.

---

A good measure of this is the “Doyle number”

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the...-deadline/

By this measure the Giants should be selling.

BC

I would rather get my odds from Doyle Brunson.

I want mine from Doyle Lonnegan.