[chrisk]

Does anybody think Meyer would actually consider it?

How about Fleck or Franklin?

[chrisk]

Does anybody think Meyer would actually consider it?

How about Fleck or Franklin?

[BostonCard]

So I’d missed the part where Helton was fired, but then I saw this...

https://www.si.com/college/usc/football/...ng-helton/

On the other hand, a couple of other articles have popped up saying there have been “conflicting reports”.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2666...eplacement

FIf you are Urban Meyer, do you really want to step into a mess where they can’t even fire a guy properly?

Fleck just signed a long term deal at Minnesota; he’d be wise to stay there, where he seems to be a great fit.  Franklin has been making noises about wanting the SC job, which wouldn’t be the first time the guy has jumped ship at the first hint of a better opportunity.  Word to the wise, if he you hire a coach who is only in it for himself, you get a coach who is only in it for himself (h/t to Gregg Easterbrook for that one).

Guess we will see.  I don’t think Helton is a talent maximizing guy, but I do worry a bit that USC running the air raid with the athletes they have could be really good.

BC

[BostonCard]

So I’d missed the part where Helton was fired, but then I saw this...

https://www.si.com/college/usc/football/...ng-helton/

On the other hand, a couple of other articles have popped up saying there have been “conflicting reports”.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2666...eplacement

FIf you are Urban Meyer, do you really want to step into a mess where they can’t even fire a guy properly?

Fleck just signed a long term deal at Minnesota; he’d be wise to stay there, where he seems to be a great fit.  Franklin has been making noises about wanting the SC job, which wouldn’t be the first time the guy has jumped ship at the first hint of a better opportunity.  Word to the wise, if he you hire a coach who is only in it for himself, you get a coach who is only in it for himself (h/t to Gregg Easterbrook for that one).

Guess we will see.  I don’t think Helton is a talent maximizing guy, but I do worry a bit that USC running the air raid with the athletes they have could be really good.

BC

[Austroturf]

There's no talk of Helton being fired over on Conquest Chronicles.  https://www.conquestchronicles.com/

[Austroturf]

There's no talk of Helton being fired over on Conquest Chronicles.  https://www.conquestchronicles.com/

[chrisk]

There's no talk of Helton being fired over on Conquest Chronicles.  https://www.conquestchronicles.com/

They do have a post up saying that it SHOULD happen this week.

[chrisk]

There's no talk of Helton being fired over on Conquest Chronicles.  https://www.conquestchronicles.com/

They do have a post up saying that it SHOULD happen this week.

[Austroturf]

There's no talk of Helton being fired over on Conquest Chronicles.  https://www.conquestchronicles.com/

They do have a post up saying that it SHOULD happen this week.

Rule of Troy has also joined the speculation, but nothing conclusive yet.

[Austroturf]

There's no talk of Helton being fired over on Conquest Chronicles.  https://www.conquestchronicles.com/

They do have a post up saying that it SHOULD happen this week.

Rule of Troy has also joined the speculation, but nothing conclusive yet.

[cardcrimson]

Helton never fit in at USC. He always seemed like a class guy to me.

[cardcrimson]

Helton never fit in at USC. He always seemed like a class guy to me.

[cardcrimson]

An interesting tidbit. Helton is 34-17 (.667) over the last four years--his only full years with the Trojans--with a Rose Bowl win, a Cotton Bowl loss, and this year's bowl TBD. Over the same period, Stanford is 32-20 (.615) with two Sun Bowl wins, an Alamo Bowl loss, and bowl-less this year.

[cardcrimson]

An interesting tidbit. Helton is 34-17 (.667) over the last four years--his only full years with the Trojans--with a Rose Bowl win, a Cotton Bowl loss, and this year's bowl TBD. Over the same period, Stanford is 32-20 (.615) with two Sun Bowl wins, an Alamo Bowl loss, and bowl-less this year.

[BostonCard]

It’s all about expectations.  From Wikipedia:

The Trojans have 52 bowl appearances, 39 of which are among the New Year's Six Bowls. With a record of 34–18, USC has the highest all-time post-season winning percentage of schools with 25 or more bowl appearances.

Stanford has played in 30 all-time bowl games, of which Shaw has taken the team to 8. By my count, we’ve been to 17 New Year’s six Bowls, of which Shaw has taken us to 4 (three Rose and a Fiesta). He also has three of the fifteen PAC-12 championships; Helton has won one of 39.

BC

[BostonCard]

It’s all about expectations.  From Wikipedia:

The Trojans have 52 bowl appearances, 39 of which are among the New Year's Six Bowls. With a record of 34–18, USC has the highest all-time post-season winning percentage of schools with 25 or more bowl appearances.

Stanford has played in 30 all-time bowl games, of which Shaw has taken the team to 8. By my count, we’ve been to 17 New Year’s six Bowls, of which Shaw has taken us to 4 (three Rose and a Fiesta). He also has three of the fifteen PAC-12 championships; Helton has won one of 39.

BC

[BobK]

Last 10 years Stanford with 98 wins
Norte Dame 91

[BobK]

Last 10 years Stanford with 98 wins
Norte Dame 91

[Phogge]

Bring Kingsbury and the Air Raid to Stanford. They have a bushel of receivers and can’t run anymore anyway.

[Phogge]

Bring Kingsbury and the Air Raid to Stanford. They have a bushel of receivers and can’t run anymore anyway.

[BostonCard]

Meanwhile, some discussion of UCLA, including speculation about its defensive coordinator.

https://apple.news/AWEbnnubxTWWxpOJy4UGp1Q

BC

[BostonCard]

Meanwhile, some discussion of UCLA, including speculation about its defensive coordinator.

https://apple.news/AWEbnnubxTWWxpOJy4UGp1Q

BC

[teejers1]

Last 10 years Stanford with 98 wins
Norte Dame 91

Can you and BC do a retrospective on Stanford vs. ND attendance the last 10 years?  Or the last 4 years?  Or whatever?
And btw, the numbers you cite are all going to look worse with each successive year under Shaw, especially if he Status Quos it.

Maybe this post will get sucked into the vortex that is the Shaw Criticism Thread.

[teejers1]

Last 10 years Stanford with 98 wins
Norte Dame 91

Can you and BC do a retrospective on Stanford vs. ND attendance the last 10 years?  Or the last 4 years?  Or whatever?
And btw, the numbers you cite are all going to look worse with each successive year under Shaw, especially if he Status Quos it.

Maybe this post will get sucked into the vortex that is the Shaw Criticism Thread.

[BostonCard]

Last 10 years Stanford with 98 wins
Norte Dame 91

Can you and BC do a retrospective on Stanford vs. ND attendance the last 10 years?  Or the last 4 years?  Or whatever?
And btw, the numbers you cite are all going to look worse with each successive year under Shaw, especially if he Status Quos it.

Maybe this post will get sucked into the vortex that is the Shaw Criticism Thread.

Not sure if this answers your question, but a quick Google found the following article:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidching/...1c35b045ee

Based on the fact that their sellout streak ended, maybe the attendance issues are not unique to Stanford football.

And yet the inconvenient schedule and weather are far from the only issues involved here. College football attendance has been sagging for years. According to the NCAA’s official attendance figures, average FBS home attendance fell in 2018 for the seventh time in the last eight seasons, from 42,108 in 2017 to 41,509 last year. That represented a drop of more than 10% from the 2008 peak of 46,456.

BC

[BostonCard]

Last 10 years Stanford with 98 wins
Norte Dame 91

Can you and BC do a retrospective on Stanford vs. ND attendance the last 10 years?  Or the last 4 years?  Or whatever?
And btw, the numbers you cite are all going to look worse with each successive year under Shaw, especially if he Status Quos it.

Maybe this post will get sucked into the vortex that is the Shaw Criticism Thread.

Not sure if this answers your question, but a quick Google found the following article:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidching/...1c35b045ee

Based on the fact that their sellout streak ended, maybe the attendance issues are not unique to Stanford football.

And yet the inconvenient schedule and weather are far from the only issues involved here. College football attendance has been sagging for years. According to the NCAA’s official attendance figures, average FBS home attendance fell in 2018 for the seventh time in the last eight seasons, from 42,108 in 2017 to 41,509 last year. That represented a drop of more than 10% from the 2008 peak of 46,456.

BC

[teejers1]

Last 10 years Stanford with 98 wins
Norte Dame 91

Can you and BC do a retrospective on Stanford vs. ND attendance the last 10 years?  Or the last 4 years?  Or whatever?
And btw, the numbers you cite are all going to look worse with each successive year under Shaw, especially if he Status Quos it.

Maybe this post will get sucked into the vortex that is the Shaw Criticism Thread.

Not sure if this answers your question, but a quick Google found the following article:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidching/...1c35b045ee

Based on the fact that their sellout streak ended, maybe the attendance issues are not unique to Stanford football.

And yet the inconvenient schedule and weather are far from the only issues involved here. College football attendance has been sagging for years. According to the NCAA’s official attendance figures, average FBS home attendance fell in 2018 for the seventh time in the last eight seasons, from 42,108 in 2017 to 41,509 last year. That represented a drop of more than 10% from the 2008 peak of 46,456.

BC

What the TV revealed for the ND game is literally "unique to Stanford football."  That was flat embarrassing.  And ND should dump us (although now that the Cardinal is an easy W, maybe they'll want to keep us on their schedule).

[teejers1]

Last 10 years Stanford with 98 wins
Norte Dame 91

Can you and BC do a retrospective on Stanford vs. ND attendance the last 10 years?  Or the last 4 years?  Or whatever?
And btw, the numbers you cite are all going to look worse with each successive year under Shaw, especially if he Status Quos it.

Maybe this post will get sucked into the vortex that is the Shaw Criticism Thread.

Not sure if this answers your question, but a quick Google found the following article:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidching/...1c35b045ee

Based on the fact that their sellout streak ended, maybe the attendance issues are not unique to Stanford football.

And yet the inconvenient schedule and weather are far from the only issues involved here. College football attendance has been sagging for years. According to the NCAA’s official attendance figures, average FBS home attendance fell in 2018 for the seventh time in the last eight seasons, from 42,108 in 2017 to 41,509 last year. That represented a drop of more than 10% from the 2008 peak of 46,456.

BC

What the TV revealed for the ND game is literally "unique to Stanford football."  That was flat embarrassing.  And ND should dump us (although now that the Cardinal is an easy W, maybe they'll want to keep us on their schedule).

[BostonCard]

Miami...



https://www.al.com/sports/2012/10/inside...e_foo.html

Tennessee...



https://www.al.com/sports/2013/06/why_ar...ng_ho.html

TCU...

https://www.cbssports.com/college-footba...nsas-game/

Maryland...

https://thesportsdaily.com/2018/11/03/lo...gan-state/

Texas...

https://vocal.media/unbalanced/the-now-c...-in-sports

And I saw blue sky in all of those images.
Here are all the hits I found with a simple google image search of "College Football Empty Stadiums"
https://www.google.com/search?q=college+...iIAnLO68qM

BC

[BostonCard]

Miami...



https://www.al.com/sports/2012/10/inside...e_foo.html

Tennessee...



https://www.al.com/sports/2013/06/why_ar...ng_ho.html

TCU...

https://www.cbssports.com/college-footba...nsas-game/

Maryland...

https://thesportsdaily.com/2018/11/03/lo...gan-state/

Texas...

https://vocal.media/unbalanced/the-now-c...-in-sports

And I saw blue sky in all of those images.
Here are all the hits I found with a simple google image search of "College Football Empty Stadiums"
https://www.google.com/search?q=college+...iIAnLO68qM

BC

[teejers1]

Miami...



https://www.al.com/sports/2012/10/inside...e_foo.html

Tennessee...



https://www.al.com/sports/2013/06/why_ar...ng_ho.html

TCU...

https://www.cbssports.com/college-footba...nsas-game/

Maryland...

https://thesportsdaily.com/2018/11/03/lo...gan-state/

Texas...

https://vocal.media/unbalanced/the-now-c...-in-sports

And I saw blue sky in all of those images.
Here are all the hits I found with a simple google image search of "College Football Empty Stadiums"
https://www.google.com/search?q=college+...iIAnLO68qM

BC

Aren't you the one who laments arguments that are not well thought out, or intellectually lazy?  C'mon now . . .

[teejers1]

Miami...



https://www.al.com/sports/2012/10/inside...e_foo.html

Tennessee...



https://www.al.com/sports/2013/06/why_ar...ng_ho.html

TCU...

https://www.cbssports.com/college-footba...nsas-game/

Maryland...

https://thesportsdaily.com/2018/11/03/lo...gan-state/

Texas...

https://vocal.media/unbalanced/the-now-c...-in-sports

And I saw blue sky in all of those images.
Here are all the hits I found with a simple google image search of "College Football Empty Stadiums"
https://www.google.com/search?q=college+...iIAnLO68qM

BC

Aren't you the one who laments arguments that are not well thought out, or intellectually lazy?  C'mon now . . .

[cardcrimson]

C'mon teejers, Bethune Cookman vs Miami is a brobdingnagian draw. Daytona Beach vs South Beach!!!!

And I saw blue sky in all of those images.
Here are all the hits I found with a simple google image search of "College Football Empty Stadiums"
https://www.google.com/search?q=college+...iIAnLO68qM

BC

Aren't you the one who laments arguments that are not well thought out, or intellectually lazy?  C'mon now . . .

[cardcrimson]

C'mon teejers, Bethune Cookman vs Miami is a brobdingnagian draw. Daytona Beach vs South Beach!!!!

And I saw blue sky in all of those images.
Here are all the hits I found with a simple google image search of "College Football Empty Stadiums"
https://www.google.com/search?q=college+...iIAnLO68qM

BC

Aren't you the one who laments arguments that are not well thought out, or intellectually lazy?  C'mon now . . .

[BostonCard]

I don't know what else you want.  I provided five examples of Power five teams with substantively empty stadiums, and linked the accompanying articles, all of which more or less say the same thing, that attendance in college football is dropping across the board.  I noted earlier in the thread that for the first time since 1973, Notre Dame failed to sell out its own game, while you assert, without providing evidence that this is uniquely a Shaw problem.

Maybe (even probably) Shaw has contributed to the decline in attendance.  I would not be the least bit surprised if attendance has dropped more dramatically at Stanford from 2011 to 2019 than it has at other schools, commensurate with the fact that our record has also gotten worse over that time period.  But you made the assertion without the least bit of evidence to support it, and in the context of a longstanding decline in attendance at Stanford football (or did we shrink the stadium just during the Shaw years), the decline of attendance at other Stanford sports (there is an entire thread devoted to the attendance decline in the *checks notes* the number one ranked, Tara Vanderveer coached, Stanford Women's basketball team) and the decline in attendance college football generally, maybe it is possible that the implication that attendance has dropped at Stanford football while Shaw has been coaching means that the attendance drop is due to Shaw's coaching would strike me as the intellectually lazy position.  But you know, maybe your well-researched and nuanced position didn't fully come across in your post.

BC

[BostonCard]

I don't know what else you want.  I provided five examples of Power five teams with substantively empty stadiums, and linked the accompanying articles, all of which more or less say the same thing, that attendance in college football is dropping across the board.  I noted earlier in the thread that for the first time since 1973, Notre Dame failed to sell out its own game, while you assert, without providing evidence that this is uniquely a Shaw problem.

Maybe (even probably) Shaw has contributed to the decline in attendance.  I would not be the least bit surprised if attendance has dropped more dramatically at Stanford from 2011 to 2019 than it has at other schools, commensurate with the fact that our record has also gotten worse over that time period.  But you made the assertion without the least bit of evidence to support it, and in the context of a longstanding decline in attendance at Stanford football (or did we shrink the stadium just during the Shaw years), the decline of attendance at other Stanford sports (there is an entire thread devoted to the attendance decline in the *checks notes* the number one ranked, Tara Vanderveer coached, Stanford Women's basketball team) and the decline in attendance college football generally, maybe it is possible that the implication that attendance has dropped at Stanford football while Shaw has been coaching means that the attendance drop is due to Shaw's coaching would strike me as the intellectually lazy position.  But you know, maybe your well-researched and nuanced position didn't fully come across in your post.

BC

[cardcrimson]

Not just limited to the NCAA and not just limited this day and age. The crowd shots from this game are classic; the commentary even better:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Td1zaPkbga0

[cardcrimson]

Not just limited to the NCAA and not just limited this day and age. The crowd shots from this game are classic; the commentary even better:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Td1zaPkbga0

[teejers1]

I don't know what else you want.  I provided five examples of Power five teams with substantively empty stadiums, and linked the accompanying articles, all of which more or less say the same thing, that attendance in college football is dropping across the board.  I noted earlier in the thread that for the first time since 1973, Notre Dame failed to sell out its own game, while you assert, without providing evidence that this is uniquely a Shaw problem.

Maybe (even probably) Shaw has contributed to the decline in attendance.  I would not be the least bit surprised if attendance has dropped more dramatically at Stanford from 2011 to 2019 than it has at other schools, commensurate with the fact that our record has also gotten worse over that time period.  But you made the assertion without the least bit of evidence to support it, and in the context of a longstanding decline in attendance at Stanford football (or did we shrink the stadium just during the Shaw years), the decline of attendance at other Stanford sports (there is an entire thread devoted to the attendance decline in the *checks notes* the number one ranked, Tara Vanderveer coached, Stanford Women's basketball team) and the decline in attendance college football generally, maybe it is possible that the implication that attendance has dropped at Stanford football while Shaw has been coaching means that the attendance drop is due to Shaw's coaching would strike me as the intellectually lazy position.  But you know, maybe your well-researched and nuanced position didn't fully come across in your post.

BC

Looking forward to pictures of empty stadiums when ND plays another P5 opponent.  And to be legit, any such pictures should be taken around the same time . . . say end of Q1.  I had longtime Domer fans who attended the game say they were embarrassed for Stanford and that they are certain this had to be the least attended ND game in the last 50 years.  I have no reason - data, experience, or gut feel - to doubt that assertion.  Hence, what we saw on Saturday was "uniquely Stanford."  I don't dispute that college football attendance generally is not what it used to be (and I actually think Miami is the best "comparable" to Stanford, though the Cardinal never reached the highs - with accompanying fan expectations - that the U did).  But I still believe that the attendance problem at Stanford is worse than at virtually every other school that has been in the Top 10 in the last 5 years.  But hey, glad you're willing to consider the possibility that this coach, running this program, is not helping things on that front.

[teejers1]

I don't know what else you want.  I provided five examples of Power five teams with substantively empty stadiums, and linked the accompanying articles, all of which more or less say the same thing, that attendance in college football is dropping across the board.  I noted earlier in the thread that for the first time since 1973, Notre Dame failed to sell out its own game, while you assert, without providing evidence that this is uniquely a Shaw problem.

Maybe (even probably) Shaw has contributed to the decline in attendance.  I would not be the least bit surprised if attendance has dropped more dramatically at Stanford from 2011 to 2019 than it has at other schools, commensurate with the fact that our record has also gotten worse over that time period.  But you made the assertion without the least bit of evidence to support it, and in the context of a longstanding decline in attendance at Stanford football (or did we shrink the stadium just during the Shaw years), the decline of attendance at other Stanford sports (there is an entire thread devoted to the attendance decline in the *checks notes* the number one ranked, Tara Vanderveer coached, Stanford Women's basketball team) and the decline in attendance college football generally, maybe it is possible that the implication that attendance has dropped at Stanford football while Shaw has been coaching means that the attendance drop is due to Shaw's coaching would strike me as the intellectually lazy position.  But you know, maybe your well-researched and nuanced position didn't fully come across in your post.

BC

Looking forward to pictures of empty stadiums when ND plays another P5 opponent.  And to be legit, any such pictures should be taken around the same time . . . say end of Q1.  I had longtime Domer fans who attended the game say they were embarrassed for Stanford and that they are certain this had to be the least attended ND game in the last 50 years.  I have no reason - data, experience, or gut feel - to doubt that assertion.  Hence, what we saw on Saturday was "uniquely Stanford."  I don't dispute that college football attendance generally is not what it used to be (and I actually think Miami is the best "comparable" to Stanford, though the Cardinal never reached the highs - with accompanying fan expectations - that the U did).  But I still believe that the attendance problem at Stanford is worse than at virtually every other school that has been in the Top 10 in the last 5 years.  But hey, glad you're willing to consider the possibility that this coach, running this program, is not helping things on that front.