[Leftcoast]

The ball went in but officials say it was after time expired.  Nice win for Bears.  

Tough to lose to your rival after leading by double digits late in the second half.  A 15-2 run got Cal back in the game and the crowd carried them through the final minutes. 

Hopefully some learning going on in the Stanford locker room.  Our first tourney appearance in some time will be on the line in the next 6 weeks.

[Leftcoast]

The ball went in but officials say it was after time expired.  Nice win for Bears.  

Tough to lose to your rival after leading by double digits late in the second half.  A 15-2 run got Cal back in the game and the crowd carried them through the final minutes. 

Hopefully some learning going on in the Stanford locker room.  Our first tourney appearance in some time will be on the line in the next 6 weeks.

[PVTree]

Bad loss. Weenies are a bad team. We played down to the competition. No killer instinct. Who's our go-to player when we must have a bucket? Terry showing some freshman moments.

[PVTree]

Bad loss. Weenies are a bad team. We played down to the competition. No killer instinct. Who's our go-to player when we must have a bucket? Terry showing some freshman moments.

[chrisk]

OK,

Last week someone asked Shaw or Haase implying Haase was the obvious choice.   

Haase - the coach with one road win in conference and road losses to Cal and USC?   Ummm, yeah, I take the 4 time Pac-12 North division winner thank you very much.

The Stanford team is so much better than Cal and USC.  Winning on the road is tough, but losing those big second half leads to those two teams is not exactly the sign of great coaching.

FWIW - I understood the shot was after the clock hit 0.0, but I thought the FOUL was before 0.0.   Oh well.... Team with that effort in the second half didn't really deserve to win.    Haase's team is not playing well in close games or in road games. 

From aspirations of a potential 4 or 5 seed to a return to the bracketology bubble.   :(

Hasse3 outcoached by Trent Johnson trainee. Would Johnson have won this came? Could he have recruited the freshman Stanford in relying upon?

[chrisk]

OK,

Last week someone asked Shaw or Haase implying Haase was the obvious choice.   

Haase - the coach with one road win in conference and road losses to Cal and USC?   Ummm, yeah, I take the 4 time Pac-12 North division winner thank you very much.

The Stanford team is so much better than Cal and USC.  Winning on the road is tough, but losing those big second half leads to those two teams is not exactly the sign of great coaching.

FWIW - I understood the shot was after the clock hit 0.0, but I thought the FOUL was before 0.0.   Oh well.... Team with that effort in the second half didn't really deserve to win.    Haase's team is not playing well in close games or in road games. 

From aspirations of a potential 4 or 5 seed to a return to the bracketology bubble.   :(

Hasse3 outcoached by Trent Johnson trainee. Would Johnson have won this came? Could he have recruited the freshman Stanford in relying upon?

[burger]

We had so many wasted possessions in the second half that ended in a bad shot of some sort.  Delaire took a couple of very difficult shots that weren't necessary.  It seemed like we didn't really have an offensive game plan at all today--just a bunch of iso plays.

Also, now that he is a known commodity, Jones is never going to get an open shot again unless his defender falls down.  He needs to be running his defenders through a bunch of screen, with or without the ball.  I didn't see that today.

[burger]

We had so many wasted possessions in the second half that ended in a bad shot of some sort.  Delaire took a couple of very difficult shots that weren't necessary.  It seemed like we didn't really have an offensive game plan at all today--just a bunch of iso plays.

Also, now that he is a known commodity, Jones is never going to get an open shot again unless his defender falls down.  He needs to be running his defenders through a bunch of screen, with or without the ball.  I didn't see that today.

[OutsiderFan]

Fox thoroughly outcoached Haase in that game.

[OutsiderFan]

Fox thoroughly outcoached Haase in that game.

[teejers1]

OK,

Last week someone asked Shaw or Haase implying Haase was the obvious choice.   

Haase - the coach with one road win in conference and road losses to Cal and USC?   Ummm, yeah, I take the 4 time Pac-12 North division winner thank you very much.

The Stanford team is so much better than Cal and USC.  Winning on the road is tough, but losing those big second half leads to those two teams is not exactly the sign of great coaching.

FWIW - I understood the shot was after the clock hit 0.0, but I thought the FOUL was before 0.0.   Oh well.... Team with that effort in the second half didn't really deserve to win.    Haase's team is not playing well in close games or in road games. 

From aspirations of a potential 4 or 5 seed to a return to the bracketology bubble.   :(

Cal, yes; SC, no.
C'mon now . . . 

And the problem with Shaw is not the W/L record (last season excepted); but rather, massive underperformance to talent on O and terrible game management.  That has cost Stanford chances at bigger bowls . . . including the Big Bowls.

But whatever, those days are gone - so now we can underperform to talent and aspire to the Alamo Bowl (and likely end up in Sun or Foster Farms).

Woo Hoo!

[teejers1]

OK,

Last week someone asked Shaw or Haase implying Haase was the obvious choice.   

Haase - the coach with one road win in conference and road losses to Cal and USC?   Ummm, yeah, I take the 4 time Pac-12 North division winner thank you very much.

The Stanford team is so much better than Cal and USC.  Winning on the road is tough, but losing those big second half leads to those two teams is not exactly the sign of great coaching.

FWIW - I understood the shot was after the clock hit 0.0, but I thought the FOUL was before 0.0.   Oh well.... Team with that effort in the second half didn't really deserve to win.    Haase's team is not playing well in close games or in road games. 

From aspirations of a potential 4 or 5 seed to a return to the bracketology bubble.   :(

Cal, yes; SC, no.
C'mon now . . . 

And the problem with Shaw is not the W/L record (last season excepted); but rather, massive underperformance to talent on O and terrible game management.  That has cost Stanford chances at bigger bowls . . . including the Big Bowls.

But whatever, those days are gone - so now we can underperform to talent and aspire to the Alamo Bowl (and likely end up in Sun or Foster Farms).

Woo Hoo!

[BostonCard]

And the problem with Shaw is not the W/L record (last season excepted); but rather, massive underperformance to talent on O and terrible game management.  That has cost Stanford chances at bigger bowls . . . including the Big Bowls.

So much for the “moratorium”.

BC

[BostonCard]

And the problem with Shaw is not the W/L record (last season excepted); but rather, massive underperformance to talent on O and terrible game management.  That has cost Stanford chances at bigger bowls . . . including the Big Bowls.

So much for the “moratorium”.

BC

[Crafter Artisan]

Looks like this was an ugly loss, but I can't post too furious a rant about this game in light of what happened earlier today.  Kobe Bryant, man!  And I was never even a fan of the Lakers....

[Crafter Artisan]

Looks like this was an ugly loss, but I can't post too furious a rant about this game in light of what happened earlier today.  Kobe Bryant, man!  And I was never even a fan of the Lakers....

[Phogge]

Those first round calls for Terry. No way is he ready. Nobody helped Davis on the penultimate possession. DeSilva never moved. They don’t have a go to guy. NIT team should be a lot better next year.

[Phogge]

Those first round calls for Terry. No way is he ready. Nobody helped Davis on the penultimate possession. DeSilva never moved. They don’t have a go to guy. NIT team should be a lot better next year.

[Farm93]

FWIW - The next 6 weeks are going to be tough.
This team relies on freshmen that are good but not exactly 2020 lottery picks.   Therefore my big worry is that the Freshmen will hit a wall as the season (and travel) grinds on.    That freshmen endurance problem is common throughout the NCAA, but Stanford players also have Stanford academics.   Competing in late December and early January is a lot easier for Stanford students than February or early March. 

If we had a coach with a rich history of winning (see Coach Shaw) then I wouldn't stress it, but as Haase's teams have generally deteriorated in the second half of the year I am a bit worried.  The loss to Cal is going to zap their metrics, so they can't just hobble to the finish line now.

Coach Haase doesn't exactly have a legacy of finishing games or seasons which probably would be high on my list of key attributes if I was to take Haase over our future College Football Hall of Fame Coach.

[Farm93]

FWIW - The next 6 weeks are going to be tough.
This team relies on freshmen that are good but not exactly 2020 lottery picks.   Therefore my big worry is that the Freshmen will hit a wall as the season (and travel) grinds on.    That freshmen endurance problem is common throughout the NCAA, but Stanford players also have Stanford academics.   Competing in late December and early January is a lot easier for Stanford students than February or early March. 

If we had a coach with a rich history of winning (see Coach Shaw) then I wouldn't stress it, but as Haase's teams have generally deteriorated in the second half of the year I am a bit worried.  The loss to Cal is going to zap their metrics, so they can't just hobble to the finish line now.

Coach Haase doesn't exactly have a legacy of finishing games or seasons which probably would be high on my list of key attributes if I was to take Haase over our future College Football Hall of Fame Coach.

[Madera86]

FWIW - The next 6 weeks are going to be tough.
This team relies on freshmen that are good but not exactly 2020 lottery picks.   Therefore my big worry is that the Freshmen will hit a wall as the season (and travel) grinds on.    That freshmen endurance problem is common throughout the NCAA, but Stanford players also have Stanford academics.   Competing in late December and early January is a lot easier for Stanford students than February or early March. 

If we had a coach with a rich history of winning (see Coach Shaw) then I wouldn't stress it, but as Haase's teams have generally deteriorated in the second half of the year I am a bit worried.  The loss to Cal is going to zap their metrics, so they can't just hobble to the finish line now.

Coach Haase doesn't exactly have a legacy of finishing games or seasons which probably would be high on my list of key attributes if I was to take Haase over our future College Football Hall of Fame Coach.

Also troubling is that this team had no midweek game to worry about this week and were playing their second game against the same opponent this season, and they still came out flat and couldn't finish in regulation.

[Madera86]

FWIW - The next 6 weeks are going to be tough.
This team relies on freshmen that are good but not exactly 2020 lottery picks.   Therefore my big worry is that the Freshmen will hit a wall as the season (and travel) grinds on.    That freshmen endurance problem is common throughout the NCAA, but Stanford players also have Stanford academics.   Competing in late December and early January is a lot easier for Stanford students than February or early March. 

If we had a coach with a rich history of winning (see Coach Shaw) then I wouldn't stress it, but as Haase's teams have generally deteriorated in the second half of the year I am a bit worried.  The loss to Cal is going to zap their metrics, so they can't just hobble to the finish line now.

Coach Haase doesn't exactly have a legacy of finishing games or seasons which probably would be high on my list of key attributes if I was to take Haase over our future College Football Hall of Fame Coach.

Also troubling is that this team had no midweek game to worry about this week and were playing their second game against the same opponent this season, and they still came out flat and couldn't finish in regulation.

[SamuelMcF]

Those first round calls for Terry. No way is he ready. Nobody helped Davis on the penultimate possession. DeSilva never moved. They don’t have a go to guy. NIT team should be a lot better next year.

Agree with everything stated here.

[SamuelMcF]

Those first round calls for Terry. No way is he ready. Nobody helped Davis on the penultimate possession. DeSilva never moved. They don’t have a go to guy. NIT team should be a lot better next year.

Agree with everything stated here.

[lex24]

15 turnovers. 5 assists.  That 5 assists for the team. Not going to win a lot of games with those numbers.

[lex24]

15 turnovers. 5 assists.  That 5 assists for the team. Not going to win a lot of games with those numbers.

[Spiny_Norman]

FWIW - The next 6 weeks are going to be tough.

This team relies on freshmen that are good but not exactly 2020 lottery picks.   Therefore my big worry is that the Freshmen will hit a wall as the season (and travel) grinds on.    That freshmen endurance problem is common throughout the NCAA, but Stanford players also have Stanford academics.   Competing in late December and early January is a lot easier for Stanford students than February or early March. 

We may have seen them hit the wall yesterday. Really important to see how resilient they are this weekend at home.

But this was not really a team with an NCAA resume even before the loss to Cal. Only 1 top 50 win.

[Spiny_Norman]

FWIW - The next 6 weeks are going to be tough.

This team relies on freshmen that are good but not exactly 2020 lottery picks.   Therefore my big worry is that the Freshmen will hit a wall as the season (and travel) grinds on.    That freshmen endurance problem is common throughout the NCAA, but Stanford players also have Stanford academics.   Competing in late December and early January is a lot easier for Stanford students than February or early March. 

We may have seen them hit the wall yesterday. Really important to see how resilient they are this weekend at home.

But this was not really a team with an NCAA resume even before the loss to Cal. Only 1 top 50 win.

[OutsiderFan]

FWIW - The next 6 weeks are going to be tough.

This team relies on freshmen that are good but not exactly 2020 lottery picks.   Therefore my big worry is that the Freshmen will hit a wall as the season (and travel) grinds on.    That freshmen endurance problem is common throughout the NCAA, but Stanford players also have Stanford academics.   Competing in late December and early January is a lot easier for Stanford students than February or early March. 

We may have seen them hit the wall yesterday. Really important to see how resilient they are this weekend at home.

But this was not really a team with an NCAA resume even before the loss to Cal. Only 1 top 50 win.

Wall?  They are 18-21.  They played one game this week.  They've played 19 in what, 12 weeks?

[OutsiderFan]

FWIW - The next 6 weeks are going to be tough.

This team relies on freshmen that are good but not exactly 2020 lottery picks.   Therefore my big worry is that the Freshmen will hit a wall as the season (and travel) grinds on.    That freshmen endurance problem is common throughout the NCAA, but Stanford players also have Stanford academics.   Competing in late December and early January is a lot easier for Stanford students than February or early March. 

We may have seen them hit the wall yesterday. Really important to see how resilient they are this weekend at home.

But this was not really a team with an NCAA resume even before the loss to Cal. Only 1 top 50 win.

Wall?  They are 18-21.  They played one game this week.  They've played 19 in what, 12 weeks?

[Brickcity]

FWIW - The next 6 weeks are going to be tough.

This team relies on freshmen that are good but not exactly 2020 lottery picks.   Therefore my big worry is that the Freshmen will hit a wall as the season (and travel) grinds on.    That freshmen endurance problem is common throughout the NCAA, but Stanford players also have Stanford academics.   Competing in late December and early January is a lot easier for Stanford students than February or early March. 

We may have seen them hit the wall yesterday. Really important to see how resilient they are this weekend at home.

But this was not really a team with an NCAA resume even before the loss to Cal. Only 1 top 50 win.

Wall?  They are 18-21.  They played one game this week.  They've played 19 in what, 12 weeks?

Montgomery's good teams always had a couple of upperclassmen who could take over a game in a crunch. For instance, Chris Hernandez or Josh Childress in 2003-2004, any one of a number of guys in 1999, Mark Madsen and Art Lee circa 1997 and obviously Brevin his entire tenure. Looking at the box score, Da Silva and Daejon played well compared to most of the team. But, they aren't guys you can count on to make clutch shots - either from the floor or even at the free-throw line - or even to make smart plays, late in games. Sure, our two talented freshmen stunk it up, but they're freshmen. This team really needs a go-to guy or guys and it doesn't look like it has one.

[Brickcity]

FWIW - The next 6 weeks are going to be tough.

This team relies on freshmen that are good but not exactly 2020 lottery picks.   Therefore my big worry is that the Freshmen will hit a wall as the season (and travel) grinds on.    That freshmen endurance problem is common throughout the NCAA, but Stanford players also have Stanford academics.   Competing in late December and early January is a lot easier for Stanford students than February or early March. 

We may have seen them hit the wall yesterday. Really important to see how resilient they are this weekend at home.

But this was not really a team with an NCAA resume even before the loss to Cal. Only 1 top 50 win.

Wall?  They are 18-21.  They played one game this week.  They've played 19 in what, 12 weeks?

Montgomery's good teams always had a couple of upperclassmen who could take over a game in a crunch. For instance, Chris Hernandez or Josh Childress in 2003-2004, any one of a number of guys in 1999, Mark Madsen and Art Lee circa 1997 and obviously Brevin his entire tenure. Looking at the box score, Da Silva and Daejon played well compared to most of the team. But, they aren't guys you can count on to make clutch shots - either from the floor or even at the free-throw line - or even to make smart plays, late in games. Sure, our two talented freshmen stunk it up, but they're freshmen. This team really needs a go-to guy or guys and it doesn't look like it has one.

[gailtate]

FWIW - The next 6 weeks are going to be tough.

This team relies on freshmen that are good but not exactly 2020 lottery picks.   Therefore my big worry is that the Freshmen will hit a wall as the season (and travel) grinds on.    That freshmen endurance problem is common throughout the NCAA, but Stanford players also have Stanford academics.   Competing in late December and early January is a lot easier for Stanford students than February or early March. 

We may have seen them hit the wall yesterday. Really important to see how resilient they are this weekend at home.

But this was not really a team with an NCAA resume even before the loss to Cal. Only 1 top 50 win.

Wall?  They are 18-21.  They played one game this week.  They've played 19 in what, 12 weeks?

Montgomery's good teams always had a couple of upperclassmen who could take over a game in a crunch. For instance, Chris Hernandez or Josh Childress in 2003-2004, any one of a number of guys in 1999, Mark Madsen and Art Lee circa 1997 and obviously Brevin his entire tenure. Looking at the box score, Da Silva and Daejon played well compared to most of the team. But, they aren't guys you can count on to make clutch shots - either from the floor or even at the free-throw line - or even to make smart plays, late in games. Sure, our two talented freshmen stunk it up, but they're freshmen. This team really needs a go-to guy or guys and it doesn't look like it has one.

Somebody, somewhere else, said something to the effect that Stanford is a group of number-2 guys looking for a go-to guy they don't have. No killer instinct to seen anywhere. How come? We're talking WEENIES here. A bus-ride away.This game was what is known as a BAD LOSS. A really bad one. It will still be resonating in March--IF there is no reversal in form, starting like NOW. I don't see one. Neither do I see what the big deal is, or has ever been, about Haase. I don't see him taking this program anywhere except in circles. Hope I'm wrong, but...

[gailtate]

FWIW - The next 6 weeks are going to be tough.

This team relies on freshmen that are good but not exactly 2020 lottery picks.   Therefore my big worry is that the Freshmen will hit a wall as the season (and travel) grinds on.    That freshmen endurance problem is common throughout the NCAA, but Stanford players also have Stanford academics.   Competing in late December and early January is a lot easier for Stanford students than February or early March. 

We may have seen them hit the wall yesterday. Really important to see how resilient they are this weekend at home.

But this was not really a team with an NCAA resume even before the loss to Cal. Only 1 top 50 win.

Wall?  They are 18-21.  They played one game this week.  They've played 19 in what, 12 weeks?

Montgomery's good teams always had a couple of upperclassmen who could take over a game in a crunch. For instance, Chris Hernandez or Josh Childress in 2003-2004, any one of a number of guys in 1999, Mark Madsen and Art Lee circa 1997 and obviously Brevin his entire tenure. Looking at the box score, Da Silva and Daejon played well compared to most of the team. But, they aren't guys you can count on to make clutch shots - either from the floor or even at the free-throw line - or even to make smart plays, late in games. Sure, our two talented freshmen stunk it up, but they're freshmen. This team really needs a go-to guy or guys and it doesn't look like it has one.

Somebody, somewhere else, said something to the effect that Stanford is a group of number-2 guys looking for a go-to guy they don't have. No killer instinct to seen anywhere. How come? We're talking WEENIES here. A bus-ride away.This game was what is known as a BAD LOSS. A really bad one. It will still be resonating in March--IF there is no reversal in form, starting like NOW. I don't see one. Neither do I see what the big deal is, or has ever been, about Haase. I don't see him taking this program anywhere except in circles. Hope I'm wrong, but...

[winflop]

Wall?  They are 18-21.  They played one game this week.  They've played 19 in what, 12 weeks?

The last two losses have both been troubling. They need to push through the offensive struggles that have shown the last month or so.

Might be the combination of being back in school and playing that wasn't as much of a factor in preseason where most of the opponents were frankly, weak - weaker than Cal.

Whatever it is, I was going to go to the oregon game but instead am going to Arizona in 2 weeks. I'm not seeing a team that can stay on court with the Ducks.

[winflop]

Wall?  They are 18-21.  They played one game this week.  They've played 19 in what, 12 weeks?

The last two losses have both been troubling. They need to push through the offensive struggles that have shown the last month or so.

Might be the combination of being back in school and playing that wasn't as much of a factor in preseason where most of the opponents were frankly, weak - weaker than Cal.

Whatever it is, I was going to go to the oregon game but instead am going to Arizona in 2 weeks. I'm not seeing a team that can stay on court with the Ducks.

[Viking_Guy]

A couple of things.

Reminded of an analogous phrase from football: when you have two starters at quarterback, you have no starter at quarterback.

At various points yesterday, players "tried to take over the game." Terry and Delaire most problematically, but Davis and da Silva as well.  For Terry and Delaire, it involved launching themselves at the rim; it only worked once, Terry's improbable and-1.  Da Silva actually has the best shot at it in isolation, and Davis is great at it, AS LONG AS the entire other team isn't waiting for exactly that move.  And da Silva missing the front end of a 1 and 1 late and I believe the score tied was just not good.

It almost exactly paralleled the Galen meltdown - a lead slipping away, and first Terry trying to do too much and accelerating the collapse, then da Silva and Davis making critical errors with the game on the line.  

I actually regard da Silva's throwaway at Galen as the worst of the bunch.  A five point lead late, you NEVER throw the ball in the direction of your own basket.  In both cases (and in retrospect :) ), I would rather take the five-second call, set up defensively, and not give up two consecutive live-ball turnovers.

More to the point, they're all playing like a young team - Davis may have stepped back a bit too far in deference to Terry, but in both games, they stopped playing the way that had gotten them leads - moving the ball and passing through the defense - and played as one individual trying to put the team on his back.  Reminded me of good old David Moseley, who as a freshman and sophomore came in and "never met a shot he didn't like," but matured into an absolute beast his junior and senior years.

The other big thing is we don't have an effective rim protector - the blow-bys for layups late in the second half because the pick defender didn't help or follow the play (I remember it was Keefe on one, and I think Delaire on the other).  They did it well as a team for most of the game - not sure what happened late.

The big question is: how many winnable road games are left?  We've played the two easiest in the Pac12, I think - Cal and out-of-form UCLA.  I could very easily see this team going 2-7 on the road, with maybe one more win (Utah, WSU, Oregon State) - but all of those teams are very tough at home.  This weekend will go a long way to determining their future - they need to try to protect home court.

Ironically, the men face somewhat the same situation as the women.  It sucks when your travel partner is a bad team.  It sucks more to lose to that team in a very winnable game.

VG

[Viking_Guy]

A couple of things.

Reminded of an analogous phrase from football: when you have two starters at quarterback, you have no starter at quarterback.

At various points yesterday, players "tried to take over the game." Terry and Delaire most problematically, but Davis and da Silva as well.  For Terry and Delaire, it involved launching themselves at the rim; it only worked once, Terry's improbable and-1.  Da Silva actually has the best shot at it in isolation, and Davis is great at it, AS LONG AS the entire other team isn't waiting for exactly that move.  And da Silva missing the front end of a 1 and 1 late and I believe the score tied was just not good.

It almost exactly paralleled the Galen meltdown - a lead slipping away, and first Terry trying to do too much and accelerating the collapse, then da Silva and Davis making critical errors with the game on the line.  

I actually regard da Silva's throwaway at Galen as the worst of the bunch.  A five point lead late, you NEVER throw the ball in the direction of your own basket.  In both cases (and in retrospect :) ), I would rather take the five-second call, set up defensively, and not give up two consecutive live-ball turnovers.

More to the point, they're all playing like a young team - Davis may have stepped back a bit too far in deference to Terry, but in both games, they stopped playing the way that had gotten them leads - moving the ball and passing through the defense - and played as one individual trying to put the team on his back.  Reminded me of good old David Moseley, who as a freshman and sophomore came in and "never met a shot he didn't like," but matured into an absolute beast his junior and senior years.

The other big thing is we don't have an effective rim protector - the blow-bys for layups late in the second half because the pick defender didn't help or follow the play (I remember it was Keefe on one, and I think Delaire on the other).  They did it well as a team for most of the game - not sure what happened late.

The big question is: how many winnable road games are left?  We've played the two easiest in the Pac12, I think - Cal and out-of-form UCLA.  I could very easily see this team going 2-7 on the road, with maybe one more win (Utah, WSU, Oregon State) - but all of those teams are very tough at home.  This weekend will go a long way to determining their future - they need to try to protect home court.

Ironically, the men face somewhat the same situation as the women.  It sucks when your travel partner is a bad team.  It sucks more to lose to that team in a very winnable game.

VG

[burger]

Good article here from Abeytia on the failings of the offense recently.  He lists lack of good screens as the #1 problem: https://247sports.com/college/stanford/A...142857060/
10.

[burger]

Good article here from Abeytia on the failings of the offense recently.  He lists lack of good screens as the #1 problem: https://247sports.com/college/stanford/A...142857060/
10.