01-29-2020, 11:37 AM
https://gostanford.com/news/2020/1/29/fo...ended.aspx
Added 2 end-of-season games at home and 2 openers away.
Added 2 end-of-season games at home and 2 openers away.
FB BYU series extended
https://gostanford.com/news/2020/1/29/fo...ended.aspx
Added 2 end-of-season games at home and 2 openers away.
Added 2 end-of-season games at home and 2 openers away.
01-29-2020, 12:09 PM
I have no bad feelings towards BYU, but I'm not sure how scheduling them benefits Stanford? If we are looking at having one top-tier, one middle-tier and one lower-tier non-conference opponent, how does BYU fit in? I guess as a middle-tier opponent?
Is it that middle-tier Power 5 schools don't want to have to travel all the way to California? That's hard for me to believe, given that all of college football recruits--or wants to recruit--in California. But so far, all I see is TCU in 2024, Vanderbilt in 2027 and Boston College in 2029 coming to Stanford this decade. Or maybe it's just getting butts in the seats. I'm sure that there are plenty of BYU alums/fans in the Bay Area who will populate Stanford Stadium when their team is in town.
Is it that middle-tier Power 5 schools don't want to have to travel all the way to California? That's hard for me to believe, given that all of college football recruits--or wants to recruit--in California. But so far, all I see is TCU in 2024, Vanderbilt in 2027 and Boston College in 2029 coming to Stanford this decade. Or maybe it's just getting butts in the seats. I'm sure that there are plenty of BYU alums/fans in the Bay Area who will populate Stanford Stadium when their team is in town.
If there's one thing people have learned in Berkeley, it's that you can't put "Cal football" and "Rose Bowl" in the same sentence. The words just don't fit. You'd be better off linking "covered wagons" with "Mars travel." (Bruce Jenkins, Cal '70, SF Chronicle, Nov. 11, 2017)
I have no bad feelings towards BYU, but I'm not sure how scheduling them benefits Stanford? If we are looking at having one top-tier, one middle-tier and one lower-tier non-conference opponent, how does BYU fit in? I guess as a middle-tier opponent?
Is it that middle-tier Power 5 schools don't want to have to travel all the way to California? That's hard for me to believe, given that all of college football recruits--or wants to recruit--in California. But so far, all I see is TCU in 2024, Vanderbilt in 2027 and Boston College in 2029 coming to Stanford this decade. Or maybe it's just getting butts in the seats. I'm sure that there are plenty of BYU alums/fans in the Bay Area who will populate Stanford Stadium when their team is in town.
Is it that middle-tier Power 5 schools don't want to have to travel all the way to California? That's hard for me to believe, given that all of college football recruits--or wants to recruit--in California. But so far, all I see is TCU in 2024, Vanderbilt in 2027 and Boston College in 2029 coming to Stanford this decade. Or maybe it's just getting butts in the seats. I'm sure that there are plenty of BYU alums/fans in the Bay Area who will populate Stanford Stadium when their team is in town.
If there's one thing people have learned in Berkeley, it's that you can't put "Cal football" and "Rose Bowl" in the same sentence. The words just don't fit. You'd be better off linking "covered wagons" with "Mars travel." (Bruce Jenkins, Cal '70, SF Chronicle, Nov. 11, 2017)
01-29-2020, 12:35 PM
What are the odds that BYU joins a conference before this contract is up, and how would that affect the scheduled games just announced?
01-29-2020, 02:47 PM
(01-29-2020, 12:09 PM)Papa John Wrote: I have no bad feelings towards BYU, but I'm not sure how scheduling them benefits Stanford? If we are looking at having one top-tier, one middle-tier and one lower-tier non-conference opponent, how does BYU fit in? I guess as a middle-tier opponent?
Is it that middle-tier Power 5 schools don't want to have to travel all the way to California? That's hard for me to believe, given that all of college football recruits--or wants to recruit--in California. But so far, all I see is TCU in 2024, Vanderbilt in 2027 and Boston College in 2029 coming to Stanford this decade. Or maybe it's just getting butts in the seats. I'm sure that there are plenty of BYU alums/fans in the Bay Area who will populate Stanford Stadium when their team is in town.
1. Agree that butts in seats may have been a consideration;
2. The only thing I have against BYU is that in competing against them you're giving up two years worth of strength, maturity, and wisdom. (That's also why I favored recruiting more LDS players in various sports)! There is a big difference (physical and mental) between most 19 year olds versus 23 year olds . . .
(01-29-2020, 12:09 PM)Papa John Wrote: I have no bad feelings towards BYU, but I'm not sure how scheduling them benefits Stanford? If we are looking at having one top-tier, one middle-tier and one lower-tier non-conference opponent, how does BYU fit in? I guess as a middle-tier opponent?
Is it that middle-tier Power 5 schools don't want to have to travel all the way to California? That's hard for me to believe, given that all of college football recruits--or wants to recruit--in California. But so far, all I see is TCU in 2024, Vanderbilt in 2027 and Boston College in 2029 coming to Stanford this decade. Or maybe it's just getting butts in the seats. I'm sure that there are plenty of BYU alums/fans in the Bay Area who will populate Stanford Stadium when their team is in town.
1. Agree that butts in seats may have been a consideration;
2. The only thing I have against BYU is that in competing against them you're giving up two years worth of strength, maturity, and wisdom. (That's also why I favored recruiting more LDS players in various sports)! There is a big difference (physical and mental) between most 19 year olds versus 23 year olds . . .
01-29-2020, 02:54 PM
(01-29-2020, 12:35 PM)needle Wrote: What are the odds that BYU joins a conference before this contract is up, and how would that affect the scheduled games just announced?
Could be a factor but the home games are front-loaded in the series.
Stanford needed somebody to play on Thanksgiving weekend in even years (with ND in odd years) because Big Game is always the week before. Virtually all Power 5 teams are locked into conference games that weekend and SC is obviously not available, ND and BYU are symmetrical bookends in that they are strong independents.
(01-29-2020, 12:35 PM)needle Wrote: What are the odds that BYU joins a conference before this contract is up, and how would that affect the scheduled games just announced?
Could be a factor but the home games are front-loaded in the series.
Stanford needed somebody to play on Thanksgiving weekend in even years (with ND in odd years) because Big Game is always the week before. Virtually all Power 5 teams are locked into conference games that weekend and SC is obviously not available, ND and BYU are symmetrical bookends in that they are strong independents.
01-29-2020, 03:00 PM
I suppose that makes sense, although I had no problem with Stanford playing @ UCLA on Thanksgiving weekend. USC vs UCLA, like Big Game, is always the weekend before Thanksgiving, so that matchup should be available. Or so I thought.
If there's one thing people have learned in Berkeley, it's that you can't put "Cal football" and "Rose Bowl" in the same sentence. The words just don't fit. You'd be better off linking "covered wagons" with "Mars travel." (Bruce Jenkins, Cal '70, SF Chronicle, Nov. 11, 2017)
I suppose that makes sense, although I had no problem with Stanford playing @ UCLA on Thanksgiving weekend. USC vs UCLA, like Big Game, is always the weekend before Thanksgiving, so that matchup should be available. Or so I thought.
If there's one thing people have learned in Berkeley, it's that you can't put "Cal football" and "Rose Bowl" in the same sentence. The words just don't fit. You'd be better off linking "covered wagons" with "Mars travel." (Bruce Jenkins, Cal '70, SF Chronicle, Nov. 11, 2017)
(01-29-2020, 03:00 PM)Papa John Wrote: I suppose that makes sense, although I had no problem with Stanford playing @ UCLA on Thanksgiving weekend. USC vs UCLA, like Big Game, is always the weekend before Thanksgiving, so that matchup should be available. Or so I thought.
The problem with that is Pac-12 scheduling happens season-by-season (besides Big Game being locked in). These OOC matchups can be pre-arranged literally over a decade in advance.
Plus I like the way we've split September away games and November home games. An away game against a solid G5/low-to-mediocre P5 type team is a good season opener, especially when students aren't on campus yet. We recruit Utah/LDS frequently, and it's not across the country in 90 degree heat with 100% humidity a la UCF. Might be chilly, but it shouldn't be snowing yet in early September.
(01-29-2020, 03:00 PM)Papa John Wrote: I suppose that makes sense, although I had no problem with Stanford playing @ UCLA on Thanksgiving weekend. USC vs UCLA, like Big Game, is always the weekend before Thanksgiving, so that matchup should be available. Or so I thought.
The problem with that is Pac-12 scheduling happens season-by-season (besides Big Game being locked in). These OOC matchups can be pre-arranged literally over a decade in advance.
Plus I like the way we've split September away games and November home games. An away game against a solid G5/low-to-mediocre P5 type team is a good season opener, especially when students aren't on campus yet. We recruit Utah/LDS frequently, and it's not across the country in 90 degree heat with 100% humidity a la UCF. Might be chilly, but it shouldn't be snowing yet in early September.
01-30-2020, 12:30 PM
I just read somewhere the ESPN is going to be televising BYU home games for at least next few years, so maybe that had something to do with the decision. Definitely better than being relegated to the Pac-12 Network for a game versus William & Mary, but I'd still prefer a power 5 opponent. But I appreciate your point about not having to play in 100-plus degrees and/or 90% humidity in a 2+ or 3+ time zone in early September.
If there's one thing people have learned in Berkeley, it's that you can't put "Cal football" and "Rose Bowl" in the same sentence. The words just don't fit. You'd be better off linking "covered wagons" with "Mars travel." (Bruce Jenkins, Cal '70, SF Chronicle, Nov. 11, 2017)
I just read somewhere the ESPN is going to be televising BYU home games for at least next few years, so maybe that had something to do with the decision. Definitely better than being relegated to the Pac-12 Network for a game versus William & Mary, but I'd still prefer a power 5 opponent. But I appreciate your point about not having to play in 100-plus degrees and/or 90% humidity in a 2+ or 3+ time zone in early September.
If there's one thing people have learned in Berkeley, it's that you can't put "Cal football" and "Rose Bowl" in the same sentence. The words just don't fit. You'd be better off linking "covered wagons" with "Mars travel." (Bruce Jenkins, Cal '70, SF Chronicle, Nov. 11, 2017)
01-30-2020, 01:05 PM
BYU is a Power 5 school for Football. One of a couple of independents who are
01-30-2020, 02:58 PM
Are you sure that BYU is Power 5, Bob?
In 2019, BYU played Utah, Tennessee, USC, UW, Toledo, U South Flo, Boise State, Utah State, Liberty, Idaho State, UMass, SDSU. That's four Power 5 opponents followed by eight Group of 5/FCS opponents. That doesn't come close to the level of competition that a true Power 5 independent, i.e. Notre Dame, would play.
In 2019, BYU played Utah, Tennessee, USC, UW, Toledo, U South Flo, Boise State, Utah State, Liberty, Idaho State, UMass, SDSU. That's four Power 5 opponents followed by eight Group of 5/FCS opponents. That doesn't come close to the level of competition that a true Power 5 independent, i.e. Notre Dame, would play.
If there's one thing people have learned in Berkeley, it's that you can't put "Cal football" and "Rose Bowl" in the same sentence. The words just don't fit. You'd be better off linking "covered wagons" with "Mars travel." (Bruce Jenkins, Cal '70, SF Chronicle, Nov. 11, 2017)
Are you sure that BYU is Power 5, Bob?
In 2019, BYU played Utah, Tennessee, USC, UW, Toledo, U South Flo, Boise State, Utah State, Liberty, Idaho State, UMass, SDSU. That's four Power 5 opponents followed by eight Group of 5/FCS opponents. That doesn't come close to the level of competition that a true Power 5 independent, i.e. Notre Dame, would play.
In 2019, BYU played Utah, Tennessee, USC, UW, Toledo, U South Flo, Boise State, Utah State, Liberty, Idaho State, UMass, SDSU. That's four Power 5 opponents followed by eight Group of 5/FCS opponents. That doesn't come close to the level of competition that a true Power 5 independent, i.e. Notre Dame, would play.
If there's one thing people have learned in Berkeley, it's that you can't put "Cal football" and "Rose Bowl" in the same sentence. The words just don't fit. You'd be better off linking "covered wagons" with "Mars travel." (Bruce Jenkins, Cal '70, SF Chronicle, Nov. 11, 2017)
(01-30-2020, 02:58 PM)Papa John Wrote: Are you sure that BYU is Power 5, Bob?
In 2019, BYU played Utah, Tennessee, USC, UW, Toledo, U South Flo, Boise State, Utah State, Liberty, Idaho State, UMass, SDSU. That's four Power 5 opponents followed by eight Group of 5/FCS opponents. That doesn't come close to the level of competition that a true Power 5 independent, i.e. Notre Dame, would play.
The Big 10 requires all members to play at least one P5 team in OOC play. They count BYU.
This year's BYU schedule:
@ Utah – Thursday, September 3
Michigan State – Saturday, September 12
@ Arizona State – Saturday, September 19
@ Minnesota – Saturday, September 26
Utah State – Friday, October 2
Missouri – Saturday, October 10
Houston – Saturday, October 17
@ Northern Illinois – Saturday, October 24
@ Boise State – Saturday, November 7
San Diego State – Saturday, November 14
North Alabama – Saturday, November 21
@ Stanford – Saturday, November 28
I count 6 P5 and 6 G5 schools (with Boise State and Houston notably strong G5s). Next year they play 7 P5 and 5 G5.
BYU is trying to schedule more P5 teams later in the season but is unable to do so generally due to conference play, hence their schedule is front-loaded with P5 matchups. In general they've played 3-4 Mountain West teams and 4 (front-loaded) P5 teams per season, and it looks like they're really trying to fill those open 4-5 slots with tougher competition when possible. I'm sure once the Pac-12 allowed late-season OOC games they jumped at the chance.
ND is locked in with the ACC to play 5 ACC teams per season...BYU obviously has no such tie-in. They will alternate between us and USC as their final game over the next 4 seasons, have ASU, Arizona, Oregon, and Wazzu on the schedule in the future, and of course Utah is a yearly rivalry game. So there's definitely a relationship forming with the Pac-12, which makes sense geographically and from a level-of-competition standpoint for both sides.
(This post was last modified: 01-30-2020, 03:26 PM by SamuelMcF.)
(01-30-2020, 02:58 PM)Papa John Wrote: Are you sure that BYU is Power 5, Bob?
In 2019, BYU played Utah, Tennessee, USC, UW, Toledo, U South Flo, Boise State, Utah State, Liberty, Idaho State, UMass, SDSU. That's four Power 5 opponents followed by eight Group of 5/FCS opponents. That doesn't come close to the level of competition that a true Power 5 independent, i.e. Notre Dame, would play.
The Big 10 requires all members to play at least one P5 team in OOC play. They count BYU.
This year's BYU schedule:
@ Utah – Thursday, September 3
Michigan State – Saturday, September 12
@ Arizona State – Saturday, September 19
@ Minnesota – Saturday, September 26
Utah State – Friday, October 2
Missouri – Saturday, October 10
Houston – Saturday, October 17
@ Northern Illinois – Saturday, October 24
@ Boise State – Saturday, November 7
San Diego State – Saturday, November 14
North Alabama – Saturday, November 21
@ Stanford – Saturday, November 28
I count 6 P5 and 6 G5 schools (with Boise State and Houston notably strong G5s). Next year they play 7 P5 and 5 G5.
BYU is trying to schedule more P5 teams later in the season but is unable to do so generally due to conference play, hence their schedule is front-loaded with P5 matchups. In general they've played 3-4 Mountain West teams and 4 (front-loaded) P5 teams per season, and it looks like they're really trying to fill those open 4-5 slots with tougher competition when possible. I'm sure once the Pac-12 allowed late-season OOC games they jumped at the chance.
ND is locked in with the ACC to play 5 ACC teams per season...BYU obviously has no such tie-in. They will alternate between us and USC as their final game over the next 4 seasons, have ASU, Arizona, Oregon, and Wazzu on the schedule in the future, and of course Utah is a yearly rivalry game. So there's definitely a relationship forming with the Pac-12, which makes sense geographically and from a level-of-competition standpoint for both sides.
(01-29-2020, 02:47 PM)teejers1 Wrote:(01-29-2020, 12:09 PM)Papa John Wrote: I have no bad feelings towards BYU, but I'm not sure how scheduling them benefits Stanford? If we are looking at having one top-tier, one middle-tier and one lower-tier non-conference opponent, how does BYU fit in? I guess as a middle-tier opponent?
Is it that middle-tier Power 5 schools don't want to have to travel all the way to California? That's hard for me to believe, given that all of college football recruits--or wants to recruit--in California. But so far, all I see is TCU in 2024, Vanderbilt in 2027 and Boston College in 2029 coming to Stanford this decade. Or maybe it's just getting butts in the seats. I'm sure that there are plenty of BYU alums/fans in the Bay Area who will populate Stanford Stadium when their team is in town.
1. Agree that butts in seats may have been a consideration;
2. The only thing I have against BYU is that in competing against them you're giving up two years worth of strength, maturity, and wisdom. (That's also why I favored recruiting more LDS players in various sports)! There is a big difference (physical and mental) between most 19 year olds versus 23 year olds . . .
I think this is a pretty good development (relative to years past) because
1) BYU is reasonably close — less than a two hour flight. I hate the faraway games. I think it hurts the team beyond losing that away game. You can lose a day of practice flying there, lose a day of practice flying back, and lose half a day before getting on-campus therapy and treatment.
2) It’s not a non-conference ucf/northwestern type of opponent. BYU is pretty good and sometimes very good, but hopefully not consistently brutal.
3) i like that they are one of the top brands in college sports, sort of like (if not quite) a Notre Dame
I think the administrator types will like it because of
1) tv relevance
2) butts in seats
3) awareness in recruiting lds kids*
* it helps if you win
(This post was last modified: 01-30-2020, 04:28 PM by Snorlax94.)
(01-29-2020, 02:47 PM)teejers1 Wrote:(01-29-2020, 12:09 PM)Papa John Wrote: I have no bad feelings towards BYU, but I'm not sure how scheduling them benefits Stanford? If we are looking at having one top-tier, one middle-tier and one lower-tier non-conference opponent, how does BYU fit in? I guess as a middle-tier opponent?
Is it that middle-tier Power 5 schools don't want to have to travel all the way to California? That's hard for me to believe, given that all of college football recruits--or wants to recruit--in California. But so far, all I see is TCU in 2024, Vanderbilt in 2027 and Boston College in 2029 coming to Stanford this decade. Or maybe it's just getting butts in the seats. I'm sure that there are plenty of BYU alums/fans in the Bay Area who will populate Stanford Stadium when their team is in town.
1. Agree that butts in seats may have been a consideration;
2. The only thing I have against BYU is that in competing against them you're giving up two years worth of strength, maturity, and wisdom. (That's also why I favored recruiting more LDS players in various sports)! There is a big difference (physical and mental) between most 19 year olds versus 23 year olds . . .
I think this is a pretty good development (relative to years past) because
1) BYU is reasonably close — less than a two hour flight. I hate the faraway games. I think it hurts the team beyond losing that away game. You can lose a day of practice flying there, lose a day of practice flying back, and lose half a day before getting on-campus therapy and treatment.
2) It’s not a non-conference ucf/northwestern type of opponent. BYU is pretty good and sometimes very good, but hopefully not consistently brutal.
3) i like that they are one of the top brands in college sports, sort of like (if not quite) a Notre Dame
I think the administrator types will like it because of
1) tv relevance
2) butts in seats
3) awareness in recruiting lds kids*
* it helps if you win
01-30-2020, 09:35 PM
I understand the appeal of BYU for Stanford given the ND scheduling requirements.
I don't think BYU will get to a place where they are consistently a top 15 team every year, so BYU would seem to satisfy that mid tier team. BYU as an independent NEEDS opponents in October and November, as most schools just don't want to seek special conference scheduling for BYU.
My concern is that the scheduling has become rather repetitive with the same teams year after year. I understand many P5 schools don't want to travel to the SF Bay Area, so I guess BYU is the best alternative.
FWIW - I don't think BYU will become a Pac-12 team. The non-Sunday play is a massive negative. The Pac-12 tries to have a lot of contests and games on Sundays. It is not impossible to navigate around BYU's Sunday rule, but BYU creates complexity. I just don't think they have enough fans in football or basketball to justify the addition.
I don't think BYU will get to a place where they are consistently a top 15 team every year, so BYU would seem to satisfy that mid tier team. BYU as an independent NEEDS opponents in October and November, as most schools just don't want to seek special conference scheduling for BYU.
My concern is that the scheduling has become rather repetitive with the same teams year after year. I understand many P5 schools don't want to travel to the SF Bay Area, so I guess BYU is the best alternative.
FWIW - I don't think BYU will become a Pac-12 team. The non-Sunday play is a massive negative. The Pac-12 tries to have a lot of contests and games on Sundays. It is not impossible to navigate around BYU's Sunday rule, but BYU creates complexity. I just don't think they have enough fans in football or basketball to justify the addition.
I understand the appeal of BYU for Stanford given the ND scheduling requirements.
I don't think BYU will get to a place where they are consistently a top 15 team every year, so BYU would seem to satisfy that mid tier team. BYU as an independent NEEDS opponents in October and November, as most schools just don't want to seek special conference scheduling for BYU.
My concern is that the scheduling has become rather repetitive with the same teams year after year. I understand many P5 schools don't want to travel to the SF Bay Area, so I guess BYU is the best alternative.
FWIW - I don't think BYU will become a Pac-12 team. The non-Sunday play is a massive negative. The Pac-12 tries to have a lot of contests and games on Sundays. It is not impossible to navigate around BYU's Sunday rule, but BYU creates complexity. I just don't think they have enough fans in football or basketball to justify the addition.
I don't think BYU will get to a place where they are consistently a top 15 team every year, so BYU would seem to satisfy that mid tier team. BYU as an independent NEEDS opponents in October and November, as most schools just don't want to seek special conference scheduling for BYU.
My concern is that the scheduling has become rather repetitive with the same teams year after year. I understand many P5 schools don't want to travel to the SF Bay Area, so I guess BYU is the best alternative.
FWIW - I don't think BYU will become a Pac-12 team. The non-Sunday play is a massive negative. The Pac-12 tries to have a lot of contests and games on Sundays. It is not impossible to navigate around BYU's Sunday rule, but BYU creates complexity. I just don't think they have enough fans in football or basketball to justify the addition.
01-30-2020, 11:06 PM
Let's rotate through all religious schools. We have Notre Dame, BYU, TCU and BC already scheduled. There's still SMU and Liberty we haven't played. How about Yeshiva?
Let's rotate through all religious schools. We have Notre Dame, BYU, TCU and BC already scheduled. There's still SMU and Liberty we haven't played. How about Yeshiva?
01-30-2020, 11:59 PM
You forgot the SEC where for all the schools except Vandy the religion is football.
01-31-2020, 09:23 AM
(01-30-2020, 11:06 PM)CowboyIndian Wrote: Let's rotate through all religious schools. We have Notre Dame, BYU, TCU and BC already scheduled. There's still SMU and Liberty we haven't played. How about Yeshiva?
don't forget the Mighty Blue Hose of Presbyterian College.....
Eric
"the older we get the better we were"
(01-30-2020, 11:06 PM)CowboyIndian Wrote: Let's rotate through all religious schools. We have Notre Dame, BYU, TCU and BC already scheduled. There's still SMU and Liberty we haven't played. How about Yeshiva?
don't forget the Mighty Blue Hose of Presbyterian College.....
Eric
"the older we get the better we were"
01-31-2020, 09:53 AM
(01-31-2020, 09:23 AM)82lsju Wrote:(01-30-2020, 11:06 PM)CowboyIndian Wrote: Let's rotate through all religious schools. We have Notre Dame, BYU, TCU and BC already scheduled. There's still SMU and Liberty we haven't played. How about Yeshiva?
don't forget the Mighty Blue Hose of Presbyterian College.....
USC was founded as a Methodist university. Does that count? Add Georgetown. Marist. Holy Cross.
Audaces fortuna iuvat
(01-31-2020, 09:23 AM)82lsju Wrote:(01-30-2020, 11:06 PM)CowboyIndian Wrote: Let's rotate through all religious schools. We have Notre Dame, BYU, TCU and BC already scheduled. There's still SMU and Liberty we haven't played. How about Yeshiva?
don't forget the Mighty Blue Hose of Presbyterian College.....
USC was founded as a Methodist university. Does that count? Add Georgetown. Marist. Holy Cross.
Audaces fortuna iuvat
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