[JustAnotherFan]

The first coronavirus vaccine can prevent more than 90% of people from getting Covid-19, a preliminary analysis shows. 

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-54873105

Any thoughts on this one?

"However, there are logistical challenges as the vaccine has to be kept in ultra-cold storage at below minus 80C."

"There are also questions about how long immunity lasts."

As for me, sign me up.

[JustAnotherFan]

The first coronavirus vaccine can prevent more than 90% of people from getting Covid-19, a preliminary analysis shows. 

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-54873105

Any thoughts on this one?

"However, there are logistical challenges as the vaccine has to be kept in ultra-cold storage at below minus 80C."

"There are also questions about how long immunity lasts."

As for me, sign me up.

[fullmetal]

I think any mRNA-based vaccine will require cold chain transportation and handling.  But it's good news, and cold chain logistics are are a surmountable requirement.  More data is required, but this is what all the distancing and masks have been waiting for.

Hope to see y'all at a Stanford game in the near future.

[fullmetal]

I think any mRNA-based vaccine will require cold chain transportation and handling.  But it's good news, and cold chain logistics are are a surmountable requirement.  More data is required, but this is what all the distancing and masks have been waiting for.

Hope to see y'all at a Stanford game in the near future.

[82lsju]

I think any mRNA-based vaccine will require cold chain transportation and handling.  But it's good news, and cold chain logistics are are a surmountable requirement.  More data is required, but this is what all the distancing and masks have been waiting for.

Hope to see y'all at a Stanford game in the near future.

from the article, looks like it does

"However there are logistical challenges, as the vaccine has to be kept in ultra-cold storage at below minus 80C. [below minus 112F]"

[82lsju]

I think any mRNA-based vaccine will require cold chain transportation and handling.  But it's good news, and cold chain logistics are are a surmountable requirement.  More data is required, but this is what all the distancing and masks have been waiting for.

Hope to see y'all at a Stanford game in the near future.

from the article, looks like it does

"However there are logistical challenges, as the vaccine has to be kept in ultra-cold storage at below minus 80C. [below minus 112F]"

[BostonCard]

Definitely good news.  I hadn't realized Pfizer had changed the number of events for the interim analysis, at 62 cases (rather than their original plan at 32 events).

https://www.fiercebiotech.com/biotech/pf...s-november

90% efficacy with 94 events (the number they had by the time the monitoring committee met) means they've seen 85 in the placebo arm and 9 in the treated arm, so you don't need fancy statistics to prove that this is very efficacious.  90% was on the optimistic end of the range (50% was the minimum, 70% was what most people was the target).

There are, of course, questions, including the issue of storage:
How long does immunity last?
What does the safety look like?
How is the immunity in older patients?
Is it as good at preventing severe cases as it is in preventing infections?

All that being said, the stock market is up "bigly", and that seems appropriate.

BC

[BostonCard]

Definitely good news.  I hadn't realized Pfizer had changed the number of events for the interim analysis, at 62 cases (rather than their original plan at 32 events).

https://www.fiercebiotech.com/biotech/pf...s-november

90% efficacy with 94 events (the number they had by the time the monitoring committee met) means they've seen 85 in the placebo arm and 9 in the treated arm, so you don't need fancy statistics to prove that this is very efficacious.  90% was on the optimistic end of the range (50% was the minimum, 70% was what most people was the target).

There are, of course, questions, including the issue of storage:
How long does immunity last?
What does the safety look like?
How is the immunity in older patients?
Is it as good at preventing severe cases as it is in preventing infections?

All that being said, the stock market is up "bigly", and that seems appropriate.

BC

[dabigv13]

I think any mRNA-based vaccine will require cold chain transportation and handling.  But it's good news, and cold chain logistics are are a surmountable requirement.  More data is required, but this is what all the distancing and masks have been waiting for.

Hope to see y'all at a Stanford game in the near future.

The Moderna vaccine can be transported at -20, and is stable refridgerated for a week I think, so should be logistically much easier to deploy widely. Posted about this a few weeks ago.

Not sure why Pfizer's mRNA vaccine has much lower temp requirements.

In any case this is incomplete data but what we have thus far is very promising, and bodes well at least for the Moderna vaccine too.

[dabigv13]

I think any mRNA-based vaccine will require cold chain transportation and handling.  But it's good news, and cold chain logistics are are a surmountable requirement.  More data is required, but this is what all the distancing and masks have been waiting for.

Hope to see y'all at a Stanford game in the near future.

The Moderna vaccine can be transported at -20, and is stable refridgerated for a week I think, so should be logistically much easier to deploy widely. Posted about this a few weeks ago.

Not sure why Pfizer's mRNA vaccine has much lower temp requirements.

In any case this is incomplete data but what we have thus far is very promising, and bodes well at least for the Moderna vaccine too.

[BostonCard]

Always challenging to extrapolate between products, but Pfizer's apparent success suggests that the technology (mRNA vaccination) is viable, and that the target (the spike protein) can lead to immunity.  Both of these bode well for Moderna's vaccine (an mRNA vaccine going after the spike protein), and to a lesser extent a lot of the other vaccines, which use the spike protein.

BC

[BostonCard]

Always challenging to extrapolate between products, but Pfizer's apparent success suggests that the technology (mRNA vaccination) is viable, and that the target (the spike protein) can lead to immunity.  Both of these bode well for Moderna's vaccine (an mRNA vaccine going after the spike protein), and to a lesser extent a lot of the other vaccines, which use the spike protein.

BC

[OutsiderFan]

Not only does this Pfizer vaccine require cold storage, I just heard Dr. Gupta from IHME say it also requires two doses. That's not ideal.

[OutsiderFan]

Not only does this Pfizer vaccine require cold storage, I just heard Dr. Gupta from IHME say it also requires two doses. That's not ideal.

[akiddoc]

Most of the vaccines in development will likely require two doses.

If it truly requires -80 degrees C, I don't see how it's going to be of any practical use. Most medical facilities do not have freezers that go any lower than residential freezers. 

I looked into this a bit. The vaccine can be kept at 2-8 degrees C for up to 5 days. Other articles are saying that the vaccine can be kept at -70 C for 6 months. Dry ice is -78 degrees. Pfizer plans to ship it in dry ice units that are good for 15 days. The logistics of getting these doses distributed in 20 days from the shipping date are going to be a nightmare.

We still have no safety data. We don't know how long the protection will last with this vaccine. There are several more in the pipeline that could be better.

[akiddoc]

Most of the vaccines in development will likely require two doses.

If it truly requires -80 degrees C, I don't see how it's going to be of any practical use. Most medical facilities do not have freezers that go any lower than residential freezers. 

I looked into this a bit. The vaccine can be kept at 2-8 degrees C for up to 5 days. Other articles are saying that the vaccine can be kept at -70 C for 6 months. Dry ice is -78 degrees. Pfizer plans to ship it in dry ice units that are good for 15 days. The logistics of getting these doses distributed in 20 days from the shipping date are going to be a nightmare.

We still have no safety data. We don't know how long the protection will last with this vaccine. There are several more in the pipeline that could be better.

[BostonCard]

Up next: Moderna

https://www.ft.com/content/c6c6b704-964a...3290ea65fa

We should expect an announcement on the interim results (based on having hit the number of events in their statistical analysis plan) in about a week.  The data needs to be cleaned, which is a laborious process, and analyzed (which is fast).  I expect it to be positive as well, given that it is similar to the Pfizer vaccine, but there is a broad range of possibilities within that.

BC

[BostonCard]

Up next: Moderna

https://www.ft.com/content/c6c6b704-964a...3290ea65fa

We should expect an announcement on the interim results (based on having hit the number of events in their statistical analysis plan) in about a week.  The data needs to be cleaned, which is a laborious process, and analyzed (which is fast).  I expect it to be positive as well, given that it is similar to the Pfizer vaccine, but there is a broad range of possibilities within that.

BC

[DocSavage87]

60 min interview of Project Warp Speed director and how they are handling some of the vaccine distribution issues:
https://youtu.be/240DMmhgp4M

There's also the Overtime footage:
https://youtu.be/Kh7C8LxYjv8

[DocSavage87]

60 min interview of Project Warp Speed director and how they are handling some of the vaccine distribution issues:
https://youtu.be/240DMmhgp4M

There's also the Overtime footage:
https://youtu.be/Kh7C8LxYjv8

[BostonCard]

Quick note that Pfizer developed its vaccine outside of Operation Warp Speed, and has said it intends to distribute the vaccine itself, not through the government's contracted logistics company (McKesson).

BC

[BostonCard]

Quick note that Pfizer developed its vaccine outside of Operation Warp Speed, and has said it intends to distribute the vaccine itself, not through the government's contracted logistics company (McKesson).

BC

[Mick]

Quick note that Pfizer developed its vaccine outside of Operation Warp Speed, and has said it intends to distribute the vaccine itself, not through the government's contracted logistics company (McKesson).

BC

Should be interesting, given the logistical challenges of keeping Pfizer's vaccine so cold.

[Mick]

Quick note that Pfizer developed its vaccine outside of Operation Warp Speed, and has said it intends to distribute the vaccine itself, not through the government's contracted logistics company (McKesson).

BC

Should be interesting, given the logistical challenges of keeping Pfizer's vaccine so cold.

[akiddoc]

Quick note that Pfizer developed its vaccine outside of Operation Warp Speed, and has said it intends to distribute the vaccine itself, not through the government's contracted logistics company (McKesson).

BC

I don't think that is correct. They developed it independently. They intend to distribute through Warp Speed.

[akiddoc]

Quick note that Pfizer developed its vaccine outside of Operation Warp Speed, and has said it intends to distribute the vaccine itself, not through the government's contracted logistics company (McKesson).

BC

I don't think that is correct. They developed it independently. They intend to distribute through Warp Speed.

[DocSavage87]

NY Times on the distribution of Pfizer vaccine:
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/12/busin...virus.html

From other sources, there's a lot of consternation about how ready the locals are to receive and implement the vaccination protocol. The second dose is essential and could be the real problem since it requires not only adequate supply but compliance and management. It sounds like Warp Speed is necessary for distribution information though it's less clear whether that group will buttress local efforts at handling the necessary cooling. The main shipping could be direct from Kalamazoo through FedEx (as described by the 60 min interview) to the locals.

There's a little more on Pfizer's innovative packaging in the ABC article. Sounds like a vast majority of places will rely on dry ice so hope they've worked out the logistics to make sure there's enough everywhere.

https://abcnews.go.com/Health/reality-pf...d=74183968

[DocSavage87]

NY Times on the distribution of Pfizer vaccine:
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/12/busin...virus.html

From other sources, there's a lot of consternation about how ready the locals are to receive and implement the vaccination protocol. The second dose is essential and could be the real problem since it requires not only adequate supply but compliance and management. It sounds like Warp Speed is necessary for distribution information though it's less clear whether that group will buttress local efforts at handling the necessary cooling. The main shipping could be direct from Kalamazoo through FedEx (as described by the 60 min interview) to the locals.

There's a little more on Pfizer's innovative packaging in the ABC article. Sounds like a vast majority of places will rely on dry ice so hope they've worked out the logistics to make sure there's enough everywhere.

https://abcnews.go.com/Health/reality-pf...d=74183968

[Mick]

Quick note that Pfizer developed its vaccine outside of Operation Warp Speed, and has said it intends to distribute the vaccine itself, not through the government's contracted logistics company (McKesson).

BC

I don't think that is correct. They developed it independently. They intend to distribute through Warp Speed.

Pfizer didn't accept R&D investment for the government.  But they have a $2 billion contract to produce 100 million doses with an option for 500 million more with the U. S. government.  The U. S. government assisted Pfizer with syringes, distribution, planning, needles, dry ice.  After Jansen's comments, Pfizer clarified that they were part of Operation Warp Speed on the supplier side, not the R&D side .

[Mick]

Quick note that Pfizer developed its vaccine outside of Operation Warp Speed, and has said it intends to distribute the vaccine itself, not through the government's contracted logistics company (McKesson).

BC

I don't think that is correct. They developed it independently. They intend to distribute through Warp Speed.

Pfizer didn't accept R&D investment for the government.  But they have a $2 billion contract to produce 100 million doses with an option for 500 million more with the U. S. government.  The U. S. government assisted Pfizer with syringes, distribution, planning, needles, dry ice.  After Jansen's comments, Pfizer clarified that they were part of Operation Warp Speed on the supplier side, not the R&D side .

[BostonCard]

Quick note that Pfizer developed its vaccine outside of Operation Warp Speed, and has said it intends to distribute the vaccine itself, not through the government's contracted logistics company (McKesson).

BC

I don't think that is correct. They developed it independently. They intend to distribute through Warp Speed.

Pfizer goes solo on U.S. shot distribution, opting out of government channels

Mick is right that Pfizer is taking advantage of the infrastructure set up by Warp Speed, but they won't use McKesson to distribute it.

The company will not use the government’s chosen distribution partner, McKesson, but rather its own system to deliver the COVID vaccine directly to healthcare providers, said Tanya Alcorn, Pfizer's vice president for biopharma global supply chain, during a recent webinar from the U.S. Chamber of Commerce. A Pfizer spokesperson confirmed that plan in an email to FiercePharma.

BC

[BostonCard]

Quick note that Pfizer developed its vaccine outside of Operation Warp Speed, and has said it intends to distribute the vaccine itself, not through the government's contracted logistics company (McKesson).

BC

I don't think that is correct. They developed it independently. They intend to distribute through Warp Speed.

Pfizer goes solo on U.S. shot distribution, opting out of government channels

Mick is right that Pfizer is taking advantage of the infrastructure set up by Warp Speed, but they won't use McKesson to distribute it.

The company will not use the government’s chosen distribution partner, McKesson, but rather its own system to deliver the COVID vaccine directly to healthcare providers, said Tanya Alcorn, Pfizer's vice president for biopharma global supply chain, during a recent webinar from the U.S. Chamber of Commerce. A Pfizer spokesperson confirmed that plan in an email to FiercePharma.

BC

[Mick]

Quick note that Pfizer developed its vaccine outside of Operation Warp Speed, and has said it intends to distribute the vaccine itself, not through the government's contracted logistics company (McKesson).

BC

I don't think that is correct. They developed it independently. They intend to distribute through Warp Speed.

Pfizer goes solo on U.S. shot distribution, opting out of government channels

Mick is right that Pfizer is taking advantage of the infrastructure set up by Warp Speed, but they won't use McKesson to distribute it.

The company will not use the government’s chosen distribution partner, McKesson, but rather its own system to deliver the COVID vaccine directly to healthcare providers, said Tanya Alcorn, Pfizer's vice president for biopharma global supply chain, during a recent webinar from the U.S. Chamber of Commerce. A Pfizer spokesperson confirmed that plan in an email to FiercePharma.

BC

Presumably Pfizer will accept the $2 billion from the federal government for the 195 million doses, plus whatever portion comes from the 500 million dose option.  And I'm guessing they accepted the syringes, needles, etc. that they've taken to date.

[Mick]

Quick note that Pfizer developed its vaccine outside of Operation Warp Speed, and has said it intends to distribute the vaccine itself, not through the government's contracted logistics company (McKesson).

BC

I don't think that is correct. They developed it independently. They intend to distribute through Warp Speed.

Pfizer goes solo on U.S. shot distribution, opting out of government channels

Mick is right that Pfizer is taking advantage of the infrastructure set up by Warp Speed, but they won't use McKesson to distribute it.

The company will not use the government’s chosen distribution partner, McKesson, but rather its own system to deliver the COVID vaccine directly to healthcare providers, said Tanya Alcorn, Pfizer's vice president for biopharma global supply chain, during a recent webinar from the U.S. Chamber of Commerce. A Pfizer spokesperson confirmed that plan in an email to FiercePharma.

BC

Presumably Pfizer will accept the $2 billion from the federal government for the 195 million doses, plus whatever portion comes from the 500 million dose option.  And I'm guessing they accepted the syringes, needles, etc. that they've taken to date.

[BostonCard]

No, Pfizer is not going to accept syringes and needles, because they are not the ones administering the vaccine.  Pfizer just provides a glass bottle with a solution of vaccine inside and specifies how to administer the vaccine.  The physician, nurse, or pharmacist would then procure the syringes and needles, which is being aided by the federal government.

Pfizer is selling 200 million doses of the drug to the US, just as it is selling a similar number of doses to the EU.

None of this is to suggest that I have some sort of libertarian view of vaccine distribution.  In fact, this is precisely the kind of situation that calls for governmental coordination.  And I have spoken favorably about Warp Speed in the past.  But I just wanted to be clear that the specific vaccine from Pfizer was developed in house, which meant that had the vaccine failed, Pfizer would have been out of pocket the development costs, which is a different model than companies like Moderna, have pursued.

BC

[BostonCard]

No, Pfizer is not going to accept syringes and needles, because they are not the ones administering the vaccine.  Pfizer just provides a glass bottle with a solution of vaccine inside and specifies how to administer the vaccine.  The physician, nurse, or pharmacist would then procure the syringes and needles, which is being aided by the federal government.

Pfizer is selling 200 million doses of the drug to the US, just as it is selling a similar number of doses to the EU.

None of this is to suggest that I have some sort of libertarian view of vaccine distribution.  In fact, this is precisely the kind of situation that calls for governmental coordination.  And I have spoken favorably about Warp Speed in the past.  But I just wanted to be clear that the specific vaccine from Pfizer was developed in house, which meant that had the vaccine failed, Pfizer would have been out of pocket the development costs, which is a different model than companies like Moderna, have pursued.

BC

[chrisk]

At his press conference today, Trump is extremely indignant that Pfizer said it was not part of Warpspeed. He said Pfizer made an unfortunate error.

[chrisk]

At his press conference today, Trump is extremely indignant that Pfizer said it was not part of Warpspeed. He said Pfizer made an unfortunate error.

[Hurlburt88]

I don't follow the logic that Pfizer made an error by not being part of "warp speed".   Can anyone lay out that logic?   Not trying to be political--honestly curious.

[Hurlburt88]

I don't follow the logic that Pfizer made an error by not being part of "warp speed".   Can anyone lay out that logic?   Not trying to be political--honestly curious.