[BobK]

Ranking of college players

https://twitter.com/golfcentral/status/1...38624?s=21

1-2

---

Team rankings. Stanford # 1

https://twitter.com/golfcentral/status/1...64131?s=21

[BobK]

Ranking of college players

https://twitter.com/golfcentral/status/1...38624?s=21

1-2

---

Team rankings. Stanford # 1

https://twitter.com/golfcentral/status/1...64131?s=21

[oldalum]

and teams with commentary:
"And with the level of talent in Palo Alto, a full-strength Stanford team makes them not only GolfChannel.com’s No. 1 team heading into the fall but also the consensus team to beat among other top coaches.
'And it’s not even close,' one coach said."

GolfChannel.com's Preseason Top 30

WOMEN'S TEAMS
1. Stanford
2. Wake Forest
3. Ole Miss
4. Duke
5. LSU
6. Arizona
7. Oklahoma State
8. Florida State
9. Auburn
10. USC
11. Arizona State
12. UCLA
13. Oregon
14. Georgia
15. South Carolina
16. Texas
17. Baylor
18. Virginia
19. Florida
20. Virginia Tech
21. Alabama
22. Michigan
23. Arkansas
24. Kentucky
25. Vanderbilt
26. Northwestern
27. Oklahoma
28. Mississippi State
29. Kent State
30. Michigan State

[oldalum]

and teams with commentary:
"And with the level of talent in Palo Alto, a full-strength Stanford team makes them not only GolfChannel.com’s No. 1 team heading into the fall but also the consensus team to beat among other top coaches.
'And it’s not even close,' one coach said."

GolfChannel.com's Preseason Top 30

WOMEN'S TEAMS
1. Stanford
2. Wake Forest
3. Ole Miss
4. Duke
5. LSU
6. Arizona
7. Oklahoma State
8. Florida State
9. Auburn
10. USC
11. Arizona State
12. UCLA
13. Oregon
14. Georgia
15. South Carolina
16. Texas
17. Baylor
18. Virginia
19. Florida
20. Virginia Tech
21. Alabama
22. Michigan
23. Arkansas
24. Kentucky
25. Vanderbilt
26. Northwestern
27. Oklahoma
28. Mississippi State
29. Kent State
30. Michigan State

[BostonCard]

Golf is a funny sport, though, especially when it gets to match play.  We ran all over the field in stroke play in both the regionals and NCAA tournament, and then unceremoniously lost in match play.  Same thing in 2019 with the Oklahoma State men's team (in that case, Stanford wound up being the beneficiary, by playing Texas in the final after the Longhorns upset OSU).  OSU had won the stroke play by 31 strokes!

BC

[BostonCard]

Golf is a funny sport, though, especially when it gets to match play.  We ran all over the field in stroke play in both the regionals and NCAA tournament, and then unceremoniously lost in match play.  Same thing in 2019 with the Oklahoma State men's team (in that case, Stanford wound up being the beneficiary, by playing Texas in the final after the Longhorns upset OSU).  OSU had won the stroke play by 31 strokes!

BC

[ca245]

Can someone explain how pairings are determined in match play? Can an opposing coach, figuring that she will lose the match-ups at #1 and #2 against Zhang and Heck no matter who she pairs with them, pair her two weakest players (#4, #5) against them and save her #1-#2-#3 against our #3-#4-#5, hoping the steal the match this way? Is there a rule that prevents this?

[ca245]

Can someone explain how pairings are determined in match play? Can an opposing coach, figuring that she will lose the match-ups at #1 and #2 against Zhang and Heck no matter who she pairs with them, pair her two weakest players (#4, #5) against them and save her #1-#2-#3 against our #3-#4-#5, hoping the steal the match this way? Is there a rule that prevents this?

[oldalum]

If we are at full strength, we're a good bet to make it into match play at the NCAAs. After that, well, I don't think a #1 seed has won yet. So I guess we should try not to win stroke play?     ;)

[oldalum]

If we are at full strength, we're a good bet to make it into match play at the NCAAs. After that, well, I don't think a #1 seed has won yet. So I guess we should try not to win stroke play?     ;)

[DC 86]

Can someone explain how pairings are determined in match play? Can an opposing coach, figuring that she will lose the match-ups at #1 and #2 against Zhang and Heck no matter who she pairs with them, pair her two weakest players (#4, #5) against them and save her #1-#2-#3 against our #3-#4-#5, hoping the steal the match this way? Is there a rule that prevents this?

I believe they are still using the "snake draft" method, which allows coaches to formulate a strategy and not be bound by rankings.

The higher seeded team designates a player for match #1 and then the lower seeded team designates an opponent for match #1 and a player for match #2, at which point the higher seeded team designates an opponent for match #2 and so forth.

So the coaches don't have to follow rankings and can formulate matchups that they think gives their team an overall advantage. An opposing coach can attempt to match its weakest players against Heck and Zhang but can be thwarted by Stanford's coach matching Heck and Zhang against their stronger players too, depending on how the "draft" plays out. Stanford should have a game theory consultant on hand for this process, obviously.

[DC 86]

Can someone explain how pairings are determined in match play? Can an opposing coach, figuring that she will lose the match-ups at #1 and #2 against Zhang and Heck no matter who she pairs with them, pair her two weakest players (#4, #5) against them and save her #1-#2-#3 against our #3-#4-#5, hoping the steal the match this way? Is there a rule that prevents this?

I believe they are still using the "snake draft" method, which allows coaches to formulate a strategy and not be bound by rankings.

The higher seeded team designates a player for match #1 and then the lower seeded team designates an opponent for match #1 and a player for match #2, at which point the higher seeded team designates an opponent for match #2 and so forth.

So the coaches don't have to follow rankings and can formulate matchups that they think gives their team an overall advantage. An opposing coach can attempt to match its weakest players against Heck and Zhang but can be thwarted by Stanford's coach matching Heck and Zhang against their stronger players too, depending on how the "draft" plays out. Stanford should have a game theory consultant on hand for this process, obviously.

[bl82]

In addition to Zhang at #1 and Heck at #2, we also have Ye at #9 on that list and Krauter at #27. It's a lot easier to game against two dominant players, but our depth takes away a lot of potential opposing strategy.

[bl82]

In addition to Zhang at #1 and Heck at #2, we also have Ye at #9 on that list and Krauter at #27. It's a lot easier to game against two dominant players, but our depth takes away a lot of potential opposing strategy.

[oldalum]

The higher seeded team designates a player for match #1 and then the lower seeded team designates an opponent for match #1 and a player for match #2, at which point the higher seeded team designates an opponent for match #2 and so forth.

Yes. from the 2020-2021 championship manual:

"Lineups will be determined using the same method employed at the Presidents Cup matches. The higher-seeded team (as determined through the 54-hole stroke-play portion), “Team 1,” will have the first choice of putting a player on the board for Match #1. The opposing team, “Team 2,” will then name its player for Match #1. Team 2 will then name its player for Match #2, and Team 1 will name its player for Match #2. The process will continue in an “S” curve until the players for all five matches are named. However, Team 1 may defer in the selection process and permit Team 2 to begin the overall selection process."

[oldalum]

The higher seeded team designates a player for match #1 and then the lower seeded team designates an opponent for match #1 and a player for match #2, at which point the higher seeded team designates an opponent for match #2 and so forth.

Yes. from the 2020-2021 championship manual:

"Lineups will be determined using the same method employed at the Presidents Cup matches. The higher-seeded team (as determined through the 54-hole stroke-play portion), “Team 1,” will have the first choice of putting a player on the board for Match #1. The opposing team, “Team 2,” will then name its player for Match #1. Team 2 will then name its player for Match #2, and Team 1 will name its player for Match #2. The process will continue in an “S” curve until the players for all five matches are named. However, Team 1 may defer in the selection process and permit Team 2 to begin the overall selection process."

[Spiny_Norman]

Zhang and Heck are in Wales this week playing on the US Curtis Cup team. In fact, they are teamed together for tomorrow's foursomes match which kick off the event.

You can follow the scoring here - https://www.usga.org/content/usga/home-p...l#!teamcup

[Spiny_Norman]

Zhang and Heck are in Wales this week playing on the US Curtis Cup team. In fact, they are teamed together for tomorrow's foursomes match which kick off the event.

You can follow the scoring here - https://www.usga.org/content/usga/home-p...l#!teamcup

[ca245]

The higher seeded team designates a player for match #1 and then the lower seeded team designates an opponent for match #1 and a player for match #2, at which point the higher seeded team designates an opponent for match #2 and so forth.

Yes. from the 2020-2021 championship manual:

"Lineups will be determined using the same method employed at the Presidents Cup matches. The higher-seeded team (as determined through the 54-hole stroke-play portion), “Team 1,” will have the first choice of putting a player on the board for Match #1. The opposing team, “Team 2,” will then name its player for Match #1. Team 2 will then name its player for Match #2, and Team 1 will name its player for Match #2. The process will continue in an “S” curve until the players for all five matches are named. However, Team 1 may defer in the selection process and permit Team 2 to begin the overall selection process."

So it would be advantageous for Team 1 to defer, giving it three chances to see who has been named by Team 2 (Matches #1, #3, and #5) before naming Team 1's player for those matches?

[ca245]

The higher seeded team designates a player for match #1 and then the lower seeded team designates an opponent for match #1 and a player for match #2, at which point the higher seeded team designates an opponent for match #2 and so forth.

Yes. from the 2020-2021 championship manual:

"Lineups will be determined using the same method employed at the Presidents Cup matches. The higher-seeded team (as determined through the 54-hole stroke-play portion), “Team 1,” will have the first choice of putting a player on the board for Match #1. The opposing team, “Team 2,” will then name its player for Match #1. Team 2 will then name its player for Match #2, and Team 1 will name its player for Match #2. The process will continue in an “S” curve until the players for all five matches are named. However, Team 1 may defer in the selection process and permit Team 2 to begin the overall selection process."

So it would be advantageous for Team 1 to defer, giving it three chances to see who has been named by Team 2 (Matches #1, #3, and #5) before naming Team 1's player for those matches?

[BigEasyCard]

and teams with commentary:
"And with the level of talent in Palo Alto, a full-strength Stanford team makes them not only GolfChannel.com’s No. 1 team heading into the fall but also the consensus team to beat among other top coaches.
'And it’s not even close,' one coach said."

GolfChannel.com's Preseason Top 30

WOMEN'S TEAMS
1. Stanford
2. Wake Forest
3. Ole Miss
4. Duke
5. LSU
6. Arizona
7. Oklahoma State
8. Florida State
9. Auburn
10. USC
11. Arizona State
12. UCLA
13. Oregon
14. Georgia
15. South Carolina
16. Texas
17. Baylor
18. Virginia
19. Florida
20. Virginia Tech
21. Alabama
22. Michigan
23. Arkansas
24. Kentucky
25. Vanderbilt
26. Northwestern
27. Oklahoma
28. Mississippi State
29. Kent State
30. Michigan State

Nice to see some distance in the rankings between Stanford and Directors' Cup contenders Texas, Florida, Michigan, and USC.

Geaux Cardinal!

[BigEasyCard]

and teams with commentary:
"And with the level of talent in Palo Alto, a full-strength Stanford team makes them not only GolfChannel.com’s No. 1 team heading into the fall but also the consensus team to beat among other top coaches.
'And it’s not even close,' one coach said."

GolfChannel.com's Preseason Top 30

WOMEN'S TEAMS
1. Stanford
2. Wake Forest
3. Ole Miss
4. Duke
5. LSU
6. Arizona
7. Oklahoma State
8. Florida State
9. Auburn
10. USC
11. Arizona State
12. UCLA
13. Oregon
14. Georgia
15. South Carolina
16. Texas
17. Baylor
18. Virginia
19. Florida
20. Virginia Tech
21. Alabama
22. Michigan
23. Arkansas
24. Kentucky
25. Vanderbilt
26. Northwestern
27. Oklahoma
28. Mississippi State
29. Kent State
30. Michigan State

Nice to see some distance in the rankings between Stanford and Directors' Cup contenders Texas, Florida, Michigan, and USC.

Geaux Cardinal!

[oldalum]

So it would be advantageous for Team 1 to defer, giving it three chances to see who has been named by Team 2 (Matches #1, #3, and #5) before naming Team 1's player for those matches?

no, because after the fourth round, the pairing for the fifth round is already determined. The 5 golfers who will compete for each team are named before the pairings are done, so there are no choices to be made for the last pairing. But depending on the circumstances, it's possible that a coach might perceive an advantage to deferring the first choice.

[oldalum]

So it would be advantageous for Team 1 to defer, giving it three chances to see who has been named by Team 2 (Matches #1, #3, and #5) before naming Team 1's player for those matches?

no, because after the fourth round, the pairing for the fifth round is already determined. The 5 golfers who will compete for each team are named before the pairings are done, so there are no choices to be made for the last pairing. But depending on the circumstances, it's possible that a coach might perceive an advantage to deferring the first choice.

[DC 86]

So it would be advantageous for Team 1 to defer, giving it three chances to see who has been named by Team 2 (Matches #1, #3, and #5) before naming Team 1's player for those matches?

no, because after the fourth round, the pairing for the fifth round is already determined.

Correct. Whether to defer or not is predicated on how your talent (and your opponent's talent) is distributed.

[DC 86]

So it would be advantageous for Team 1 to defer, giving it three chances to see who has been named by Team 2 (Matches #1, #3, and #5) before naming Team 1's player for those matches?

no, because after the fourth round, the pairing for the fifth round is already determined.

Correct. Whether to defer or not is predicated on how your talent (and your opponent's talent) is distributed.

[BostonCard]

The game theory would be interesting here.  My guess is that the the first team would nominate their #3 player in the first round.  Team 2 would respond by putting forth their #1 or #2 depending on how confident they were about that match-up, but then it would get interesting.

BC

[BostonCard]

The game theory would be interesting here.  My guess is that the the first team would nominate their #3 player in the first round.  Team 2 would respond by putting forth their #1 or #2 depending on how confident they were about that match-up, but then it would get interesting.

BC

[DC 86]

The game theory would be interesting here.  My guess is that the the first team would nominate their #3 player in the first round.  Team 2 would respond by putting forth their #1 or #2 depending on how confident they were about that match-up, but then it would get interesting.

BC

Generally speaking that makes sense, but if you have two strong players and three weak players you would approach things differently than if you had one superstar, two pretty good players and two weaker players, and perhaps more importantly would need to similarly consider how the other team is constructed. You really would want to test all the possible permutations, simulating each of the five match outcomes for each set, ultimately producing a tree of recommended decisions based on what the opposing coach decides at each juncture. It would be an interesting project, but ultimately dependent on how accurate you are in projecting each player's relative ability.

[DC 86]

The game theory would be interesting here.  My guess is that the the first team would nominate their #3 player in the first round.  Team 2 would respond by putting forth their #1 or #2 depending on how confident they were about that match-up, but then it would get interesting.

BC

Generally speaking that makes sense, but if you have two strong players and three weak players you would approach things differently than if you had one superstar, two pretty good players and two weaker players, and perhaps more importantly would need to similarly consider how the other team is constructed. You really would want to test all the possible permutations, simulating each of the five match outcomes for each set, ultimately producing a tree of recommended decisions based on what the opposing coach decides at each juncture. It would be an interesting project, but ultimately dependent on how accurate you are in projecting each player's relative ability.

[winflop]

https://www.facebook.com/StanfordWgolf/p...7936521617

[winflop]

https://www.facebook.com/StanfordWgolf/p...7936521617

[oldalum]

 You really would want to test all the possible permutations, simulating each of the five match outcomes for each set, ultimately producing a tree of recommended decisions based on what the opposing coach decides at each juncture. 

Or if you're Anne Walker at the 2022 NCAA championship matches, you just throw anyone up there in any order and crush your opponent anyway! :)

[oldalum]

 You really would want to test all the possible permutations, simulating each of the five match outcomes for each set, ultimately producing a tree of recommended decisions based on what the opposing coach decides at each juncture. 

Or if you're Anne Walker at the 2022 NCAA championship matches, you just throw anyone up there in any order and crush your opponent anyway! :)

[DC 86]

 You really would want to test all the possible permutations, simulating each of the five match outcomes for each set, ultimately producing a tree of recommended decisions based on what the opposing coach decides at each juncture. 

Or if you're Anne Walker at the 2022 NCAA championship matches, you just throw anyone up there in any order and crush your opponent anyway!  :)

Indeed. Ultimately what is decisive is how they actually play. There's also the value of putting your best players out on the course first to presumably take the lead and put pressure on the rest of the opponent's team while lifting your team's confidence.

[DC 86]

 You really would want to test all the possible permutations, simulating each of the five match outcomes for each set, ultimately producing a tree of recommended decisions based on what the opposing coach decides at each juncture. 

Or if you're Anne Walker at the 2022 NCAA championship matches, you just throw anyone up there in any order and crush your opponent anyway!  :)

Indeed. Ultimately what is decisive is how they actually play. There's also the value of putting your best players out on the course first to presumably take the lead and put pressure on the rest of the opponent's team while lifting your team's confidence.

[winflop]

My sense is the lineup will look something like this for most of the year:
Heck
Zhang
Ye
Krauter
Seay

Subs: Englemann, Reyes
Becht, Lu, and Sturdza will likely compete as individuals in the fall home tournament and may also go to local tournaments in Monterey, Sacramento, Fairfield, and Napa.

Also of note - former assistant coach and then director of operations Lauren Dobashi has left Stanford and is now the head coach at San Diego St. Good for her!

[winflop]

My sense is the lineup will look something like this for most of the year:
Heck
Zhang
Ye
Krauter
Seay

Subs: Englemann, Reyes
Becht, Lu, and Sturdza will likely compete as individuals in the fall home tournament and may also go to local tournaments in Monterey, Sacramento, Fairfield, and Napa.

Also of note - former assistant coach and then director of operations Lauren Dobashi has left Stanford and is now the head coach at San Diego St. Good for her!

[Hulk01]

My sense is the lineup will look something like this for most of the year:
Heck
Zhang
Ye
Krauter
Seay

Subs: Englemann, Reyes
Becht, Lu, and Sturdza will likely compete as individuals in the fall home tournament and may also go to local tournaments in Monterey, Sacramento, Fairfield, and Napa.

Also of note - former assistant coach and then director of operations Lauren Dobashi has left Stanford and is now the head coach at San Diego St. Good for her!

---

My sense is the lineup will look something like this for most of the year:
Heck
Zhang
Ye
Krauter
Seay

Subs: Englemann, Reyes
Becht, Lu, and Sturdza will likely compete as individuals in the fall home tournament and may also go to local tournaments in Monterey, Sacramento, Fairfield, and Napa.

Also of note - former assistant coach and then director of operations Lauren Dobashi has left Stanford and is now the head coach at San Diego St. Good for her!

I think Sturdza will overtake Reyes.

[Hulk01]

My sense is the lineup will look something like this for most of the year:
Heck
Zhang
Ye
Krauter
Seay

Subs: Englemann, Reyes
Becht, Lu, and Sturdza will likely compete as individuals in the fall home tournament and may also go to local tournaments in Monterey, Sacramento, Fairfield, and Napa.

Also of note - former assistant coach and then director of operations Lauren Dobashi has left Stanford and is now the head coach at San Diego St. Good for her!

---

My sense is the lineup will look something like this for most of the year:
Heck
Zhang
Ye
Krauter
Seay

Subs: Englemann, Reyes
Becht, Lu, and Sturdza will likely compete as individuals in the fall home tournament and may also go to local tournaments in Monterey, Sacramento, Fairfield, and Napa.

Also of note - former assistant coach and then director of operations Lauren Dobashi has left Stanford and is now the head coach at San Diego St. Good for her!

I think Sturdza will overtake Reyes.