[lex24]

Matt has it nailed. 

Shaw has clearly created a selfish culture that exceeds other programs. Why?  Because guys are now jamming themselves to graduate early (thereby not putting a Stanford degree at risk) and then getting grad school paid for elsewhere.  It’s a shame. 

Why would you want to leave Stanford quickly?  Seriously. Why?  Who is giving our players this advice?  Who is excited that they would take extra courses at the expense of being better on the field?  Their parents?  I sure hope not. 

Something tells me this isn’t the full story. Something tells me the program is rotten from the inside. Players are going to transfer, it’s a given these days, but we seem to be losing guys who we want to stay.

What is the average number that go into the Portal.  As mentioned, just cause one goes on, doesn’t mean he leaves.  Losing obviously matters.  So, that’s a factor.  As for the grad transfers, makes perfect sense from the kids perspective.  

Selfish culture?  You mean 18-22 year old kids actually putting their future first?


Why do some kids want to leave Stanford early?  Maybe they don’t like the school or the area. Maybe they see greener pastures elsewhere - for any number of reasons.  It happens.

[lex24]

Matt has it nailed. 

Shaw has clearly created a selfish culture that exceeds other programs. Why?  Because guys are now jamming themselves to graduate early (thereby not putting a Stanford degree at risk) and then getting grad school paid for elsewhere.  It’s a shame. 

Why would you want to leave Stanford quickly?  Seriously. Why?  Who is giving our players this advice?  Who is excited that they would take extra courses at the expense of being better on the field?  Their parents?  I sure hope not. 

Something tells me this isn’t the full story. Something tells me the program is rotten from the inside. Players are going to transfer, it’s a given these days, but we seem to be losing guys who we want to stay.

What is the average number that go into the Portal.  As mentioned, just cause one goes on, doesn’t mean he leaves.  Losing obviously matters.  So, that’s a factor.  As for the grad transfers, makes perfect sense from the kids perspective.  

Selfish culture?  You mean 18-22 year old kids actually putting their future first?


Why do some kids want to leave Stanford early?  Maybe they don’t like the school or the area. Maybe they see greener pastures elsewhere - for any number of reasons.  It happens.

[gailtate]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/stanfordrivals/status/1598900084015796224?s=46&t=9pTyBCpYIDNHWywTIc_j_w[/tweet]

BC

---

[tweet]https://twitter.com/stanfordrivals/status/1598898695235579904?s=46&t=9pTyBCpYIDNHWywTIc_j_w[/tweet]

Last one out, please turn out the lights.

BC

Are the lights still on?  Thought they went out some years ago.

Last one burned out after the 2018 Sun Bowl. But it was flickering before then.

[gailtate]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/stanfordrivals/status/1598900084015796224?s=46&t=9pTyBCpYIDNHWywTIc_j_w[/tweet]

BC

---

[tweet]https://twitter.com/stanfordrivals/status/1598898695235579904?s=46&t=9pTyBCpYIDNHWywTIc_j_w[/tweet]

Last one out, please turn out the lights.

BC

Are the lights still on?  Thought they went out some years ago.

Last one burned out after the 2018 Sun Bowl. But it was flickering before then.

[PersonalLegend]

Matt has it nailed. 

Shaw has clearly created a selfish culture that exceeds other programs. Why?  Because guys are now jamming themselves to graduate early (thereby not putting a Stanford degree at risk) and then getting grad school paid for elsewhere.  It’s a shame. 

Why would you want to leave Stanford quickly?  Seriously. Why?  Who is giving our players this advice?  Who is excited that they would take extra courses at the expense of being better on the field?  Their parents?  I sure hope not. 

Something tells me this isn’t the full story. Something tells me the program is rotten from the inside. Players are going to transfer, it’s a given these days, but we seem to be losing guys who we want to stay.

What is the average number that go into the Portal.  As mentioned, just cause one goes on, doesn’t mean he leaves.  Losing obviously matters.  So, that’s a factor.  As for the grad transfers, makes perfect sense from the kids perspective.  

Selfish culture?  You mean 18-22 year old kids actually putting their future first?


Why do some kids want to leave Stanford early?  Maybe they don’t like the school or the area. Maybe they see greener pastures elsewhere - for any number of reasons.  It happens.

Maybe “only” putting their future first. And that is a lousy way to live.

[PersonalLegend]

Matt has it nailed. 

Shaw has clearly created a selfish culture that exceeds other programs. Why?  Because guys are now jamming themselves to graduate early (thereby not putting a Stanford degree at risk) and then getting grad school paid for elsewhere.  It’s a shame. 

Why would you want to leave Stanford quickly?  Seriously. Why?  Who is giving our players this advice?  Who is excited that they would take extra courses at the expense of being better on the field?  Their parents?  I sure hope not. 

Something tells me this isn’t the full story. Something tells me the program is rotten from the inside. Players are going to transfer, it’s a given these days, but we seem to be losing guys who we want to stay.

What is the average number that go into the Portal.  As mentioned, just cause one goes on, doesn’t mean he leaves.  Losing obviously matters.  So, that’s a factor.  As for the grad transfers, makes perfect sense from the kids perspective.  

Selfish culture?  You mean 18-22 year old kids actually putting their future first?


Why do some kids want to leave Stanford early?  Maybe they don’t like the school or the area. Maybe they see greener pastures elsewhere - for any number of reasons.  It happens.

Maybe “only” putting their future first. And that is a lousy way to live.

[winflop]

What is the average number that go into the Portal.  As mentioned, just cause one goes on, doesn’t mean he leaves.  Losing obviously matters.  So, that’s a factor.  As for the grad transfers, makes perfect sense from the kids perspective.  

Last year the average for FBS teams was 16 players entering the portal. It was 12 the year before. This is why I'm not getting up in arms. Not only have we not yet reached last year's average, but the vast majority are grad transfers which is a whole different thing from the TWO undergrad transfers (Hinton, Allen). Never saw Allen on the field and he was 5th on the depth chart at the start of the season so I'm not going to shed a lot of tears on that one. Hinton got playing time but anytime his name was ever mentioned it wasn't positive coverage.

[winflop]

What is the average number that go into the Portal.  As mentioned, just cause one goes on, doesn’t mean he leaves.  Losing obviously matters.  So, that’s a factor.  As for the grad transfers, makes perfect sense from the kids perspective.  

Last year the average for FBS teams was 16 players entering the portal. It was 12 the year before. This is why I'm not getting up in arms. Not only have we not yet reached last year's average, but the vast majority are grad transfers which is a whole different thing from the TWO undergrad transfers (Hinton, Allen). Never saw Allen on the field and he was 5th on the depth chart at the start of the season so I'm not going to shed a lot of tears on that one. Hinton got playing time but anytime his name was ever mentioned it wasn't positive coverage.

[lex24]

Matt has it nailed. 

Shaw has clearly created a selfish culture that exceeds other programs. Why?  Because guys are now jamming themselves to graduate early (thereby not putting a Stanford degree at risk) and then getting grad school paid for elsewhere.  It’s a shame. 

Why would you want to leave Stanford quickly?  Seriously. Why?  Who is giving our players this advice?  Who is excited that they would take extra courses at the expense of being better on the field?  Their parents?  I sure hope not. 

Something tells me this isn’t the full story. Something tells me the program is rotten from the inside. Players are going to transfer, it’s a given these days, but we seem to be losing guys who we want to stay.

What is the average number that go into the Portal.  As mentioned, just cause one goes on, doesn’t mean he leaves.  Losing obviously matters.  So, that’s a factor.  As for the grad transfers, makes perfect sense from the kids perspective.  

Selfish culture?  You mean 18-22 year old kids actually putting their future first?


Why do some kids want to leave Stanford early?  Maybe they don’t like the school or the area. Maybe they see greener pastures elsewhere - for any number of reasons.  It happens.

Maybe “only” putting their future first. And that is a lousy way to live.

“Dad, I want your advice.  I have been excepted in Indiana’s _____ Masters program.  I can play my last year there.  I can’t get in to Stanford’s _____ Masters program.  But I could stay for a fifth year of undergraduate work.  I like my teammates and we have a new coach coming in. Indiana has a good  _______ program.  That’s the area I hope to be in for my career. 
What are your thoughts?”

Assume your son has no NFL chance.  He will be playing his last year of football.

[lex24]

Matt has it nailed. 

Shaw has clearly created a selfish culture that exceeds other programs. Why?  Because guys are now jamming themselves to graduate early (thereby not putting a Stanford degree at risk) and then getting grad school paid for elsewhere.  It’s a shame. 

Why would you want to leave Stanford quickly?  Seriously. Why?  Who is giving our players this advice?  Who is excited that they would take extra courses at the expense of being better on the field?  Their parents?  I sure hope not. 

Something tells me this isn’t the full story. Something tells me the program is rotten from the inside. Players are going to transfer, it’s a given these days, but we seem to be losing guys who we want to stay.

What is the average number that go into the Portal.  As mentioned, just cause one goes on, doesn’t mean he leaves.  Losing obviously matters.  So, that’s a factor.  As for the grad transfers, makes perfect sense from the kids perspective.  

Selfish culture?  You mean 18-22 year old kids actually putting their future first?


Why do some kids want to leave Stanford early?  Maybe they don’t like the school or the area. Maybe they see greener pastures elsewhere - for any number of reasons.  It happens.

Maybe “only” putting their future first. And that is a lousy way to live.

“Dad, I want your advice.  I have been excepted in Indiana’s _____ Masters program.  I can play my last year there.  I can’t get in to Stanford’s _____ Masters program.  But I could stay for a fifth year of undergraduate work.  I like my teammates and we have a new coach coming in. Indiana has a good  _______ program.  That’s the area I hope to be in for my career. 
What are your thoughts?”

Assume your son has no NFL chance.  He will be playing his last year of football.

[cardcrimson]

Matt has it nailed. 

Shaw has clearly created a selfish culture that exceeds other programs. Why?  Because guys are now jamming themselves to graduate early (thereby not putting a Stanford degree at risk) and then getting grad school paid for elsewhere.  It’s a shame. 

Why would you want to leave Stanford quickly?  Seriously. Why?  Who is giving our players this advice?  Who is excited that they would take extra courses at the expense of being better on the field?  Their parents?  I sure hope not. 

Something tells me this isn’t the full story. Something tells me the program is rotten from the inside. Players are going to transfer, it’s a given these days, but we seem to be losing guys who we want to stay.

What is the average number that go into the Portal.  As mentioned, just cause one goes on, doesn’t mean he leaves.  Losing obviously matters.  So, that’s a factor.  As for the grad transfers, makes perfect sense from the kids perspective.  

Selfish culture?  You mean 18-22 year old kids actually putting their future first?


Why do some kids want to leave Stanford early?  Maybe they don’t like the school or the area. Maybe they see greener pastures elsewhere - for any number of reasons.  It happens.

Maybe “only” putting their future first. And that is a lousy way to live.

“Dad, I want your advice.  I have been excepted in Indiana’s _____ Masters program.  I can play my last year there.  I can’t get in to Stanford’s _____ Masters program.  But I could stay for a fifth year of undergraduate work.  I like my teammates and we have a new coach coming in. Indiana has a good  _______ program.  That’s the area I hope to be in for my career. 
What are your thoughts?”

Assume your son has no NFL chance.  He will be playing his last year of football.

Ever been to Bloomington?

[cardcrimson]

Matt has it nailed. 

Shaw has clearly created a selfish culture that exceeds other programs. Why?  Because guys are now jamming themselves to graduate early (thereby not putting a Stanford degree at risk) and then getting grad school paid for elsewhere.  It’s a shame. 

Why would you want to leave Stanford quickly?  Seriously. Why?  Who is giving our players this advice?  Who is excited that they would take extra courses at the expense of being better on the field?  Their parents?  I sure hope not. 

Something tells me this isn’t the full story. Something tells me the program is rotten from the inside. Players are going to transfer, it’s a given these days, but we seem to be losing guys who we want to stay.

What is the average number that go into the Portal.  As mentioned, just cause one goes on, doesn’t mean he leaves.  Losing obviously matters.  So, that’s a factor.  As for the grad transfers, makes perfect sense from the kids perspective.  

Selfish culture?  You mean 18-22 year old kids actually putting their future first?


Why do some kids want to leave Stanford early?  Maybe they don’t like the school or the area. Maybe they see greener pastures elsewhere - for any number of reasons.  It happens.

Maybe “only” putting their future first. And that is a lousy way to live.

“Dad, I want your advice.  I have been excepted in Indiana’s _____ Masters program.  I can play my last year there.  I can’t get in to Stanford’s _____ Masters program.  But I could stay for a fifth year of undergraduate work.  I like my teammates and we have a new coach coming in. Indiana has a good  _______ program.  That’s the area I hope to be in for my career. 
What are your thoughts?”

Assume your son has no NFL chance.  He will be playing his last year of football.

Ever been to Bloomington?

[lex24]

Matt has it nailed. 

Shaw has clearly created a selfish culture that exceeds other programs. Why?  Because guys are now jamming themselves to graduate early (thereby not putting a Stanford degree at risk) and then getting grad school paid for elsewhere.  It’s a shame. 

Why would you want to leave Stanford quickly?  Seriously. Why?  Who is giving our players this advice?  Who is excited that they would take extra courses at the expense of being better on the field?  Their parents?  I sure hope not. 

Something tells me this isn’t the full story. Something tells me the program is rotten from the inside. Players are going to transfer, it’s a given these days, but we seem to be losing guys who we want to stay.

What is the average number that go into the Portal.  As mentioned, just cause one goes on, doesn’t mean he leaves.  Losing obviously matters.  So, that’s a factor.  As for the grad transfers, makes perfect sense from the kids perspective.  

Selfish culture?  You mean 18-22 year old kids actually putting their future first?


Why do some kids want to leave Stanford early?  Maybe they don’t like the school or the area. Maybe they see greener pastures elsewhere - for any number of reasons.  It happens.

Maybe “only” putting their future first. And that is a lousy way to live.

“Dad, I want your advice.  I have been excepted in Indiana’s _____ Masters program.  I can play my last year there.  I can’t get in to Stanford’s _____ Masters program.  But I could stay for a fifth year of undergraduate work.  I like my teammates and we have a new coach coming in. Indiana has a good  _______ program.  That’s the area I hope to be in for my career. 
What are your thoughts?”

Assume your son has no NFL chance.  He will be playing his last year of football.

Ever been to Bloomington?

Touché!

[lex24]

Matt has it nailed. 

Shaw has clearly created a selfish culture that exceeds other programs. Why?  Because guys are now jamming themselves to graduate early (thereby not putting a Stanford degree at risk) and then getting grad school paid for elsewhere.  It’s a shame. 

Why would you want to leave Stanford quickly?  Seriously. Why?  Who is giving our players this advice?  Who is excited that they would take extra courses at the expense of being better on the field?  Their parents?  I sure hope not. 

Something tells me this isn’t the full story. Something tells me the program is rotten from the inside. Players are going to transfer, it’s a given these days, but we seem to be losing guys who we want to stay.

What is the average number that go into the Portal.  As mentioned, just cause one goes on, doesn’t mean he leaves.  Losing obviously matters.  So, that’s a factor.  As for the grad transfers, makes perfect sense from the kids perspective.  

Selfish culture?  You mean 18-22 year old kids actually putting their future first?


Why do some kids want to leave Stanford early?  Maybe they don’t like the school or the area. Maybe they see greener pastures elsewhere - for any number of reasons.  It happens.

Maybe “only” putting their future first. And that is a lousy way to live.

“Dad, I want your advice.  I have been excepted in Indiana’s _____ Masters program.  I can play my last year there.  I can’t get in to Stanford’s _____ Masters program.  But I could stay for a fifth year of undergraduate work.  I like my teammates and we have a new coach coming in. Indiana has a good  _______ program.  That’s the area I hope to be in for my career. 
What are your thoughts?”

Assume your son has no NFL chance.  He will be playing his last year of football.

Ever been to Bloomington?

Touché!

[TonyLima]

Matt has it nailed. 

Shaw has clearly created a selfish culture that exceeds other programs. Why?  Because guys are now jamming themselves to graduate early (thereby not putting a Stanford degree at risk) and then getting grad school paid for elsewhere.  It’s a shame. 

Why would you want to leave Stanford quickly?  Seriously. Why?  Who is giving our players this advice?  Who is excited that they would take extra courses at the expense of being better on the field?  Their parents?  I sure hope not. 

Something tells me this isn’t the full story. Something tells me the program is rotten from the inside. Players are going to transfer, it’s a given these days, but we seem to be losing guys who we want to stay.

What is the average number that go into the Portal.  As mentioned, just cause one goes on, doesn’t mean he leaves.  Losing obviously matters.  So, that’s a factor.  As for the grad transfers, makes perfect sense from the kids perspective.  

Selfish culture?  You mean 18-22 year old kids actually putting their future first?


Why do some kids want to leave Stanford early?  Maybe they don’t like the school or the area. Maybe they see greener pastures elsewhere - for any number of reasons.  It happens.

Maybe “only” putting their future first. And that is a lousy way to live.

“Dad, I want your advice.  I have been excepted in Indiana’s _____ Masters program.  I can play my last year there.  I can’t get in to Stanford’s _____ Masters program.  But I could stay for a fifth year of undergraduate work.  I like my teammates and we have a new coach coming in. Indiana has a good  _______ program.  That’s the area I hope to be in for my career. 
What are your thoughts?”

Assume your son has no NFL chance.  He will be playing his last year of football.

* accepted.

[TonyLima]

Matt has it nailed. 

Shaw has clearly created a selfish culture that exceeds other programs. Why?  Because guys are now jamming themselves to graduate early (thereby not putting a Stanford degree at risk) and then getting grad school paid for elsewhere.  It’s a shame. 

Why would you want to leave Stanford quickly?  Seriously. Why?  Who is giving our players this advice?  Who is excited that they would take extra courses at the expense of being better on the field?  Their parents?  I sure hope not. 

Something tells me this isn’t the full story. Something tells me the program is rotten from the inside. Players are going to transfer, it’s a given these days, but we seem to be losing guys who we want to stay.

What is the average number that go into the Portal.  As mentioned, just cause one goes on, doesn’t mean he leaves.  Losing obviously matters.  So, that’s a factor.  As for the grad transfers, makes perfect sense from the kids perspective.  

Selfish culture?  You mean 18-22 year old kids actually putting their future first?


Why do some kids want to leave Stanford early?  Maybe they don’t like the school or the area. Maybe they see greener pastures elsewhere - for any number of reasons.  It happens.

Maybe “only” putting their future first. And that is a lousy way to live.

“Dad, I want your advice.  I have been excepted in Indiana’s _____ Masters program.  I can play my last year there.  I can’t get in to Stanford’s _____ Masters program.  But I could stay for a fifth year of undergraduate work.  I like my teammates and we have a new coach coming in. Indiana has a good  _______ program.  That’s the area I hope to be in for my career. 
What are your thoughts?”

Assume your son has no NFL chance.  He will be playing his last year of football.

* accepted.

[BostonCard]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/turnersalim/status/1599194925283041280?s=46&t=MYEncZjNSORNpK1jIGFg9w[/tweet]

BC

[BostonCard]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/turnersalim/status/1599194925283041280?s=46&t=MYEncZjNSORNpK1jIGFg9w[/tweet]

BC

[pefloresjr]

I think it is a false narrative that the graduate transfers have a legitimate chance to stay to finish their undergraduate work if they only wanted to.  It used to be true that athletes and non-athletes could do that but my understanding is that Stanford now insists that you show your progress to finish in four years.  They allow athletes to take higher than normal loads, and in fact assist in this with summer units, so that they too, finish and get out in four years. I think this is a crucial Stanford change that needs to happen to keep Stanford from being hurt in multiple sports.  I don't think we can blame Shaw for this problem.  However, it is a big issue for our next coach.  I think that athletes should be allowed to be on a five year track with the understanding that their fifth year of scholarship is not guaranteed and they might have to go on regular financial aid.  I also think this should be made available to other Stanford students who have reasons to need five years.  

Cheers,
Pete F.

[pefloresjr]

I think it is a false narrative that the graduate transfers have a legitimate chance to stay to finish their undergraduate work if they only wanted to.  It used to be true that athletes and non-athletes could do that but my understanding is that Stanford now insists that you show your progress to finish in four years.  They allow athletes to take higher than normal loads, and in fact assist in this with summer units, so that they too, finish and get out in four years. I think this is a crucial Stanford change that needs to happen to keep Stanford from being hurt in multiple sports.  I don't think we can blame Shaw for this problem.  However, it is a big issue for our next coach.  I think that athletes should be allowed to be on a five year track with the understanding that their fifth year of scholarship is not guaranteed and they might have to go on regular financial aid.  I also think this should be made available to other Stanford students who have reasons to need five years.  

Cheers,
Pete F.

[Mick]

I think it is a false narrative that the graduate transfers have a legitimate chance to stay to finish their undergraduate work if they only wanted to.  It used to be true that athletes and non-athletes could do that but my understanding is that Stanford now insists that you show your progress to finish in four years.  They allow athletes to take higher than normal loads, and in fact assist in this with summer units, so that they too, finish and get out in four years. I think this is a crucial Stanford change that needs to happen to keep Stanford from being hurt in multiple sports.  I don't think we can blame Shaw for this problem.  However, it is a big issue for our next coach.  I think that athletes should be allowed to be on a five year track with the understanding that their fifth year of scholarship is not guaranteed and they might have to go on regular financial aid.  I also think this should be made available to other Stanford students who have reasons to need five years.  

Cheers,
Pete F.

Different school, but I recall that many of my engineering friends and virtually everyone with a double major took five years to finish. Completing an undergrad degree in three years, on the other hand, was so rare that only one person in our class of 850 was able to do it.

[Mick]

I think it is a false narrative that the graduate transfers have a legitimate chance to stay to finish their undergraduate work if they only wanted to.  It used to be true that athletes and non-athletes could do that but my understanding is that Stanford now insists that you show your progress to finish in four years.  They allow athletes to take higher than normal loads, and in fact assist in this with summer units, so that they too, finish and get out in four years. I think this is a crucial Stanford change that needs to happen to keep Stanford from being hurt in multiple sports.  I don't think we can blame Shaw for this problem.  However, it is a big issue for our next coach.  I think that athletes should be allowed to be on a five year track with the understanding that their fifth year of scholarship is not guaranteed and they might have to go on regular financial aid.  I also think this should be made available to other Stanford students who have reasons to need five years.  

Cheers,
Pete F.

Different school, but I recall that many of my engineering friends and virtually everyone with a double major took five years to finish. Completing an undergrad degree in three years, on the other hand, was so rare that only one person in our class of 850 was able to do it.

[81alum]

How does the APR (Academic Progress Rate), calculated on a four year progress-to-degree model, figure into students stretching their undergraduate years beyond 4?  I presume that students who graduate and then enroll in an MA program are just fine for the university's APR...but what about students who take longer than 4 years to earn their BA?  Does this lower the university's APR?

[81alum]

How does the APR (Academic Progress Rate), calculated on a four year progress-to-degree model, figure into students stretching their undergraduate years beyond 4?  I presume that students who graduate and then enroll in an MA program are just fine for the university's APR...but what about students who take longer than 4 years to earn their BA?  Does this lower the university's APR?

[Maple Leaf]

I think it is a false narrative that the graduate transfers have a legitimate chance to stay to finish their undergraduate work if they only wanted to.  It used to be true that athletes and non-athletes could do that but my understanding is that Stanford now insists that you show your progress to finish in four years.  They allow athletes to take higher than normal loads, and in fact assist in this with summer units, so that they too, finish and get out in four years. I think this is a crucial Stanford change that needs to happen to keep Stanford from being hurt in multiple sports.  I don't think we can blame Shaw for this problem.  However, it is a big issue for our next coach.  I think that athletes should be allowed to be on a five year track with the understanding that their fifth year of scholarship is not guaranteed and they might have to go on regular financial aid.  I also think this should be made available to other Stanford students who have reasons to need five years.  

Cheers,
Pete F.

Different school, but I recall that many of my engineering friends and virtually everyone with a double major took five years to finish. Completing an undergrad degree in three years, on the other hand, was so rare that only one person in our class of 850 was able to do it.

Back in the late 60's and early 70's it was very common that Engineering and Architectural Bachelor of Science degrees were 5-year programs, which if you were draft eligible could present some dicey issues with one's draft board.

[Maple Leaf]

I think it is a false narrative that the graduate transfers have a legitimate chance to stay to finish their undergraduate work if they only wanted to.  It used to be true that athletes and non-athletes could do that but my understanding is that Stanford now insists that you show your progress to finish in four years.  They allow athletes to take higher than normal loads, and in fact assist in this with summer units, so that they too, finish and get out in four years. I think this is a crucial Stanford change that needs to happen to keep Stanford from being hurt in multiple sports.  I don't think we can blame Shaw for this problem.  However, it is a big issue for our next coach.  I think that athletes should be allowed to be on a five year track with the understanding that their fifth year of scholarship is not guaranteed and they might have to go on regular financial aid.  I also think this should be made available to other Stanford students who have reasons to need five years.  

Cheers,
Pete F.

Different school, but I recall that many of my engineering friends and virtually everyone with a double major took five years to finish. Completing an undergrad degree in three years, on the other hand, was so rare that only one person in our class of 850 was able to do it.

Back in the late 60's and early 70's it was very common that Engineering and Architectural Bachelor of Science degrees were 5-year programs, which if you were draft eligible could present some dicey issues with one's draft board.

[lex24]

Speaking of the Portal - Scott Ostler summed it up nicely: there would be no shame in “downsizing” football.  But if that is not the plan, the new landscape cannot be ignored.

 Either you join in or you wither. Half measures are unfair to all involved.

[lex24]

Speaking of the Portal - Scott Ostler summed it up nicely: there would be no shame in “downsizing” football.  But if that is not the plan, the new landscape cannot be ignored.

 Either you join in or you wither. Half measures are unfair to all involved.

[BobK]

It’s not calculated on 4 years
Various sports have 5 th year athletes at Stanford today.

[BobK]

It’s not calculated on 4 years
Various sports have 5 th year athletes at Stanford today.

[PersonalLegend]

Matt has it nailed. 

Shaw has clearly created a selfish culture that exceeds other programs. Why?  Because guys are now jamming themselves to graduate early (thereby not putting a Stanford degree at risk) and then getting grad school paid for elsewhere.  It’s a shame. 

Why would you want to leave Stanford quickly?  Seriously. Why?  Who is giving our players this advice?  Who is excited that they would take extra courses at the expense of being better on the field?  Their parents?  I sure hope not. 

Something tells me this isn’t the full story. Something tells me the program is rotten from the inside. Players are going to transfer, it’s a given these days, but we seem to be losing guys who we want to stay.

What is the average number that go into the Portal.  As mentioned, just cause one goes on, doesn’t mean he leaves.  Losing obviously matters.  So, that’s a factor.  As for the grad transfers, makes perfect sense from the kids perspective.  

Selfish culture?  You mean 18-22 year old kids actually putting their future first?


Why do some kids want to leave Stanford early?  Maybe they don’t like the school or the area. Maybe they see greener pastures elsewhere - for any number of reasons.  It happens.

Maybe “only” putting their future first. And that is a lousy way to live.

“Dad, I want your advice.  I have been excepted in Indiana’s _____ Masters program.  I can play my last year there.  I can’t get in to Stanford’s _____ Masters program.  But I could stay for a fifth year of undergraduate work.  I like my teammates and we have a new coach coming in. Indiana has a good  _______ program.  That’s the area I hope to be in for my career. 
What are your thoughts?”

Assume your son has no NFL chance.  He will be playing his last year of football.

If it’s my son?  I say go where the experience is going to be the best. Rushing to get a masters degree isn’t going to solve anything in life.  If playing football at Stanford is a great experience, then why leave? 

Now, if it really is just about the degree options and not about the experience of playing ball, then why play ball at all?  Because it pays the tuition?  Ok. But it sure isn’t that much fun if your heart isn’t in it. There are other ways to get tuition paid for a year. 

I say this as a guy who didn’t want to leave, of course, and one who was lucky enough to coterm in my 5th year.  So, I guess I got it all right.   I finished that a quarter early so that I could take my shot at the next level.  Now?  I wish I had just enjoyed one last spring quarter on the Farm.  Perspective. Young people always think they are optimizing.

[PersonalLegend]

Matt has it nailed. 

Shaw has clearly created a selfish culture that exceeds other programs. Why?  Because guys are now jamming themselves to graduate early (thereby not putting a Stanford degree at risk) and then getting grad school paid for elsewhere.  It’s a shame. 

Why would you want to leave Stanford quickly?  Seriously. Why?  Who is giving our players this advice?  Who is excited that they would take extra courses at the expense of being better on the field?  Their parents?  I sure hope not. 

Something tells me this isn’t the full story. Something tells me the program is rotten from the inside. Players are going to transfer, it’s a given these days, but we seem to be losing guys who we want to stay.

What is the average number that go into the Portal.  As mentioned, just cause one goes on, doesn’t mean he leaves.  Losing obviously matters.  So, that’s a factor.  As for the grad transfers, makes perfect sense from the kids perspective.  

Selfish culture?  You mean 18-22 year old kids actually putting their future first?


Why do some kids want to leave Stanford early?  Maybe they don’t like the school or the area. Maybe they see greener pastures elsewhere - for any number of reasons.  It happens.

Maybe “only” putting their future first. And that is a lousy way to live.

“Dad, I want your advice.  I have been excepted in Indiana’s _____ Masters program.  I can play my last year there.  I can’t get in to Stanford’s _____ Masters program.  But I could stay for a fifth year of undergraduate work.  I like my teammates and we have a new coach coming in. Indiana has a good  _______ program.  That’s the area I hope to be in for my career. 
What are your thoughts?”

Assume your son has no NFL chance.  He will be playing his last year of football.

If it’s my son?  I say go where the experience is going to be the best. Rushing to get a masters degree isn’t going to solve anything in life.  If playing football at Stanford is a great experience, then why leave? 

Now, if it really is just about the degree options and not about the experience of playing ball, then why play ball at all?  Because it pays the tuition?  Ok. But it sure isn’t that much fun if your heart isn’t in it. There are other ways to get tuition paid for a year. 

I say this as a guy who didn’t want to leave, of course, and one who was lucky enough to coterm in my 5th year.  So, I guess I got it all right.   I finished that a quarter early so that I could take my shot at the next level.  Now?  I wish I had just enjoyed one last spring quarter on the Farm.  Perspective. Young people always think they are optimizing.

[cardcoug]

“Dad, I want your advice.  I have been excepted in Indiana’s _____ Masters program.  I can play my last year there.  I can’t get in to Stanford’s _____ Masters program.  But I could stay for a fifth year of undergraduate work.  I like my teammates and we have a new coach coming in. Indiana has a good  _______ program.  That’s the area I hope to be in for my career. 
What are your thoughts?”

Assume your son has no NFL chance.  He will be playing his last year of football.

I'm completely w/Lex here. I teach at Stanford. Students often ask me for advice about graduate school or other post-graduation plans. Suppose an undergrad came to me and said, "I could start grad school at ___ next fall, my admission was fast tracked and it'd be fully funded. Or, I could hang around here as a super senior for a quarter, apply to graduate school all over again and, if accepted, find a way to pay for it. A year from next fall. What do you think?" It seems fairly obvious how I should advise them.

These kids are 22! They are just about to graduate and are itching to start their lives. The idea that loyalty to the university or team should drive their decision here is completely ludicrous, and I can't imagine even considering it when responding to the student. If they're aiming for the NFL, they absolutely should go wherever will make that most likely. We don't even pay them! If they're aiming for a career that involves graduate school, they should absolutely take the free graduate school. 

For the kids who are only thinking about football, the way to fix this problem is simple. When the senior asks, "where will I maximize my chance for the NFL?" "Where can I win a championship" or "Where can I have fun playing football", the answer needs to be "right here." A decade ago, it was. It can be again. The problem isn't an outbreak of selfishness.

[cardcoug]

“Dad, I want your advice.  I have been excepted in Indiana’s _____ Masters program.  I can play my last year there.  I can’t get in to Stanford’s _____ Masters program.  But I could stay for a fifth year of undergraduate work.  I like my teammates and we have a new coach coming in. Indiana has a good  _______ program.  That’s the area I hope to be in for my career. 
What are your thoughts?”

Assume your son has no NFL chance.  He will be playing his last year of football.

I'm completely w/Lex here. I teach at Stanford. Students often ask me for advice about graduate school or other post-graduation plans. Suppose an undergrad came to me and said, "I could start grad school at ___ next fall, my admission was fast tracked and it'd be fully funded. Or, I could hang around here as a super senior for a quarter, apply to graduate school all over again and, if accepted, find a way to pay for it. A year from next fall. What do you think?" It seems fairly obvious how I should advise them.

These kids are 22! They are just about to graduate and are itching to start their lives. The idea that loyalty to the university or team should drive their decision here is completely ludicrous, and I can't imagine even considering it when responding to the student. If they're aiming for the NFL, they absolutely should go wherever will make that most likely. We don't even pay them! If they're aiming for a career that involves graduate school, they should absolutely take the free graduate school. 

For the kids who are only thinking about football, the way to fix this problem is simple. When the senior asks, "where will I maximize my chance for the NFL?" "Where can I win a championship" or "Where can I have fun playing football", the answer needs to be "right here." A decade ago, it was. It can be again. The problem isn't an outbreak of selfishness.

[TonyLima]

I think it is a false narrative that the graduate transfers have a legitimate chance to stay to finish their undergraduate work if they only wanted to.  It used to be true that athletes and non-athletes could do that but my understanding is that Stanford now insists that you show your progress to finish in four years.  They allow athletes to take higher than normal loads, and in fact assist in this with summer units, so that they too, finish and get out in four years. I think this is a crucial Stanford change that needs to happen to keep Stanford from being hurt in multiple sports.  I don't think we can blame Shaw for this problem.  However, it is a big issue for our next coach.  I think that athletes should be allowed to be on a five year track with the understanding that their fifth year of scholarship is not guaranteed and they might have to go on regular financial aid.  I also think this should be made available to other Stanford students who have reasons to need five years.  

Cheers,
Pete F.

Different school, but I recall that many of my engineering friends and virtually everyone with a double major took five years to finish. Completing an undergrad degree in three years, on the other hand, was so rare that only one person in our class of 850 was able to do it.

Back in the late 60's and early 70's it was very common that Engineering and Architectural Bachelor of Science degrees were 5-year programs, which if you were draft eligible could present some dicey issues with one's draft board.

I am MIT BS Chem Eng class of 1969.  Almost everyone majoring in engineering got the degree in four years.  One of my pals was an architecture major.  That program took five years, but he got some weird MA type degree.  IIRC.

---

“Dad, I want your advice.  I have been excepted in Indiana’s _____ Masters program.  I can play my last year there.  I can’t get in to Stanford’s _____ Masters program.  But I could stay for a fifth year of undergraduate work.  I like my teammates and we have a new coach coming in. Indiana has a good  _______ program.  That’s the area I hope to be in for my career. 
What are your thoughts?”

Assume your son has no NFL chance.  He will be playing his last year of football.

I'm completely w/Lex here. I teach at Stanford. Students often ask me for advice about graduate school or other post-graduation plans. Suppose an undergrad came to me and said, "I could start grad school at ___ next fall, my admission was fast tracked and it'd be fully funded. Or, I could hang around here as a super senior for a quarter, apply to graduate school all over again and, if accepted, find a way to pay for it. A year from next fall. What do you think?" It seems fairly obvious how I should advise them.

These kids are 22! They are just about to graduate and are itching to start their lives. The idea that loyalty to the university or team should drive their decision here is completely ludicrous, and I can't imagine even considering it when responding to the student. If they're aiming for the NFL, they absolutely should go wherever will make that most likely. We don't even pay them! If they're aiming for a career that involves graduate school, they should absolutely take the free graduate school. 

For the kids who are only thinking about football, the way to fix this problem is simple. When the senior asks, "where will I maximize my chance for the NFL?" "Where can I win a championship" or "Where can I have fun playing football", the answer needs to be "right here." A decade ago, it was. It can be again. The problem isn't an outbreak of selfishness.

Outstanding.  Happy to hear you teach at Stanford.

[TonyLima]

I think it is a false narrative that the graduate transfers have a legitimate chance to stay to finish their undergraduate work if they only wanted to.  It used to be true that athletes and non-athletes could do that but my understanding is that Stanford now insists that you show your progress to finish in four years.  They allow athletes to take higher than normal loads, and in fact assist in this with summer units, so that they too, finish and get out in four years. I think this is a crucial Stanford change that needs to happen to keep Stanford from being hurt in multiple sports.  I don't think we can blame Shaw for this problem.  However, it is a big issue for our next coach.  I think that athletes should be allowed to be on a five year track with the understanding that their fifth year of scholarship is not guaranteed and they might have to go on regular financial aid.  I also think this should be made available to other Stanford students who have reasons to need five years.  

Cheers,
Pete F.

Different school, but I recall that many of my engineering friends and virtually everyone with a double major took five years to finish. Completing an undergrad degree in three years, on the other hand, was so rare that only one person in our class of 850 was able to do it.

Back in the late 60's and early 70's it was very common that Engineering and Architectural Bachelor of Science degrees were 5-year programs, which if you were draft eligible could present some dicey issues with one's draft board.

I am MIT BS Chem Eng class of 1969.  Almost everyone majoring in engineering got the degree in four years.  One of my pals was an architecture major.  That program took five years, but he got some weird MA type degree.  IIRC.

---

“Dad, I want your advice.  I have been excepted in Indiana’s _____ Masters program.  I can play my last year there.  I can’t get in to Stanford’s _____ Masters program.  But I could stay for a fifth year of undergraduate work.  I like my teammates and we have a new coach coming in. Indiana has a good  _______ program.  That’s the area I hope to be in for my career. 
What are your thoughts?”

Assume your son has no NFL chance.  He will be playing his last year of football.

I'm completely w/Lex here. I teach at Stanford. Students often ask me for advice about graduate school or other post-graduation plans. Suppose an undergrad came to me and said, "I could start grad school at ___ next fall, my admission was fast tracked and it'd be fully funded. Or, I could hang around here as a super senior for a quarter, apply to graduate school all over again and, if accepted, find a way to pay for it. A year from next fall. What do you think?" It seems fairly obvious how I should advise them.

These kids are 22! They are just about to graduate and are itching to start their lives. The idea that loyalty to the university or team should drive their decision here is completely ludicrous, and I can't imagine even considering it when responding to the student. If they're aiming for the NFL, they absolutely should go wherever will make that most likely. We don't even pay them! If they're aiming for a career that involves graduate school, they should absolutely take the free graduate school. 

For the kids who are only thinking about football, the way to fix this problem is simple. When the senior asks, "where will I maximize my chance for the NFL?" "Where can I win a championship" or "Where can I have fun playing football", the answer needs to be "right here." A decade ago, it was. It can be again. The problem isn't an outbreak of selfishness.

Outstanding.  Happy to hear you teach at Stanford.

[Treebound]

Thrilled to hear that you teach at Stanford as well, CardCoug.  My question for you changes Lex's scenario:  What if said player can actually become a co-term masters student?   Many students that I know are or have been taking full advantage of a Stanford co-term degree.  Yes, some programs are more difficult to qualify for, but I think this is a path that the new coach/AD team need to try to figure out.  

If you can keep these student athletes doing well on the field and in the classroom, then the co-term door should be easier to take advantage of and getting a Masters at Stanford vs in Bloomington or most other places would be the optimal choice.   The Co-term should be another useful tool to keep student athletes here in the program and engaged in both athletic and academic pursuits that most other schools can not match.

[Treebound]

Thrilled to hear that you teach at Stanford as well, CardCoug.  My question for you changes Lex's scenario:  What if said player can actually become a co-term masters student?   Many students that I know are or have been taking full advantage of a Stanford co-term degree.  Yes, some programs are more difficult to qualify for, but I think this is a path that the new coach/AD team need to try to figure out.  

If you can keep these student athletes doing well on the field and in the classroom, then the co-term door should be easier to take advantage of and getting a Masters at Stanford vs in Bloomington or most other places would be the optimal choice.   The Co-term should be another useful tool to keep student athletes here in the program and engaged in both athletic and academic pursuits that most other schools can not match.

[PersonalLegend]

All good opinions. Most reinforce exactly the “rational” approach that Shaw has wrecked the program with. Ludicrous indeed to be loyal to a mission outside your short-term self interest. 

Enjoy 3-9. 

Stanford football is dead. May it be resurrected.

[PersonalLegend]

All good opinions. Most reinforce exactly the “rational” approach that Shaw has wrecked the program with. Ludicrous indeed to be loyal to a mission outside your short-term self interest. 

Enjoy 3-9. 

Stanford football is dead. May it be resurrected.