[CardinalSagehen]

This is somewhat notable because they’re the first to enter the portal after Coach Taylor’s hiring.  

[tweet]https://twitter.com/stanfordrivals/status/1603528082551238656?s=46&t=i8NZYh8rLGzFutIeNo1Y0w[/tweet]

[CardinalSagehen]

This is somewhat notable because they’re the first to enter the portal after Coach Taylor’s hiring.  

[tweet]https://twitter.com/stanfordrivals/status/1603528082551238656?s=46&t=i8NZYh8rLGzFutIeNo1Y0w[/tweet]

[AlbanyCardinal]

Yikes, the numbers keep adding up. This incoming staff is going to need to find ways to bring in some replacements, if only to field a full scout team and such during the spring, no? I wonder if the Ivies, the Dukes, the Northwesterns, thr Rices could be mined closely for grad transfers.

[AlbanyCardinal]

Yikes, the numbers keep adding up. This incoming staff is going to need to find ways to bring in some replacements, if only to field a full scout team and such during the spring, no? I wonder if the Ivies, the Dukes, the Northwesterns, thr Rices could be mined closely for grad transfers.

[82lsju]

This is somewhat notable because they’re the first to enter the portal after Coach Taylor’s hiring.  

[tweet]https://twitter.com/stanfordrivals/status/1603528082551238656?s=46&t=i8NZYh8rLGzFutIeNo1Y0w[/tweet]

this list

https://247sports.com/Season/2023-Footba...nkey=24092

shows both entering on Dec 5th

this list does show Walter Rouse entering today

[82lsju]

This is somewhat notable because they’re the first to enter the portal after Coach Taylor’s hiring.  

[tweet]https://twitter.com/stanfordrivals/status/1603528082551238656?s=46&t=i8NZYh8rLGzFutIeNo1Y0w[/tweet]

this list

https://247sports.com/Season/2023-Footba...nkey=24092

shows both entering on Dec 5th

this list does show Walter Rouse entering today

[SamuelMcF]

This is somewhat notable because they’re the first to enter the portal after Coach Taylor’s hiring.  

[tweet]https://twitter.com/stanfordrivals/status/1603528082551238656?s=46&t=i8NZYh8rLGzFutIeNo1Y0w[/tweet]

They entered over a week ago.

[SamuelMcF]

This is somewhat notable because they’re the first to enter the portal after Coach Taylor’s hiring.  

[tweet]https://twitter.com/stanfordrivals/status/1603528082551238656?s=46&t=i8NZYh8rLGzFutIeNo1Y0w[/tweet]

They entered over a week ago.

[CardinalSagehen]

This is somewhat notable because they’re the first to enter the portal after Coach Taylor’s hiring.  

[tweet]https://twitter.com/stanfordrivals/status/1603528082551238656?s=46&t=i8NZYh8rLGzFutIeNo1Y0w[/tweet]

this list

https://247sports.com/Season/2023-Footba...nkey=24092

shows both entering on Dec 5th

this list does show Walter Rouse entering today

Sorry for the misinformation.  Strange that Rivals tweeted it yesterday.  However, the news of Rouse's entry is pretty big.  I hope we can get him back. As it stands, we are lining up to have a very young and thin team at practically all position groups.

[CardinalSagehen]

This is somewhat notable because they’re the first to enter the portal after Coach Taylor’s hiring.  

[tweet]https://twitter.com/stanfordrivals/status/1603528082551238656?s=46&t=i8NZYh8rLGzFutIeNo1Y0w[/tweet]

this list

https://247sports.com/Season/2023-Footba...nkey=24092

shows both entering on Dec 5th

this list does show Walter Rouse entering today

Sorry for the misinformation.  Strange that Rivals tweeted it yesterday.  However, the news of Rouse's entry is pretty big.  I hope we can get him back. As it stands, we are lining up to have a very young and thin team at practically all position groups.

[SamuelMcF]

Sorry for the misinformation.  Strange that Rivals tweeted it yesterday.  However, the news of Rouse's entry is pretty big.  I hope we can get him back. As it stands, we are lining up to have a very young and thin team at practically all position groups.

Getting a few players back for one year (or even a few grad transfers for one year) will make no difference. The 2023 team is going to suck no matter what, though we can take solace that it would've been worse with no hope under the previous regime.

Would WAY rather have said younger players get a ton of reps under a new scheme, actually develop properly (what a concept!), and instill the new culture. We need to get the losing, complacent, players-leave-the-second-they-can stench of Shaw off this program. I hope nobody has expectations of going bowling next year, because barring a miracle we won't. This is how a ground-up rebuild works.

[SamuelMcF]

Sorry for the misinformation.  Strange that Rivals tweeted it yesterday.  However, the news of Rouse's entry is pretty big.  I hope we can get him back. As it stands, we are lining up to have a very young and thin team at practically all position groups.

Getting a few players back for one year (or even a few grad transfers for one year) will make no difference. The 2023 team is going to suck no matter what, though we can take solace that it would've been worse with no hope under the previous regime.

Would WAY rather have said younger players get a ton of reps under a new scheme, actually develop properly (what a concept!), and instill the new culture. We need to get the losing, complacent, players-leave-the-second-they-can stench of Shaw off this program. I hope nobody has expectations of going bowling next year, because barring a miracle we won't. This is how a ground-up rebuild works.

[needle]

Would always prefer to have the most talented, most experienced line possible. 

Reps for OLs physically overmatched helps them just a little bit, imo. Yes, trying to block the best accelerates your learning curve, but OL can actually simulate that pretty well in practice, at least in theory.

Bad/very green OL tends to get QBs hurt and make offensive execution a joke for everybody.

[needle]

Would always prefer to have the most talented, most experienced line possible. 

Reps for OLs physically overmatched helps them just a little bit, imo. Yes, trying to block the best accelerates your learning curve, but OL can actually simulate that pretty well in practice, at least in theory.

Bad/very green OL tends to get QBs hurt and make offensive execution a joke for everybody.

[gailtate]

This is somewhat notable because they’re the first to enter the portal after Coach Taylor’s hiring.  

[tweet]https://twitter.com/stanfordrivals/status/1603528082551238656?s=46&t=i8NZYh8rLGzFutIeNo1Y0w[/tweet]

this list

https://247sports.com/Season/2023-Footba...nkey=24092

shows both entering on Dec 5th

this list does show Walter Rouse entering today

Sorry for the misinformation.  Strange that Rivals tweeted it yesterday.  However, the news of Rouse's entry is pretty big.  I hope we can get him back. As it stands, we are lining up to have a very young and thin team at practically all position groups.

The longer it takes to rebuild this program the more inept the prior regime looks in retrospect. People still knock Willingham for leaving a bare cupboard when he left for South Bend. Stanford's "cupboard" today isn't bare, it's nonexistent. Brace yourself for the home opener vs. Sac St. But, hey, I plan to be there regardless. First time since the 2019 Big Game. Gotta take the l-o-n-g view.

[gailtate]

This is somewhat notable because they’re the first to enter the portal after Coach Taylor’s hiring.  

[tweet]https://twitter.com/stanfordrivals/status/1603528082551238656?s=46&t=i8NZYh8rLGzFutIeNo1Y0w[/tweet]

this list

https://247sports.com/Season/2023-Footba...nkey=24092

shows both entering on Dec 5th

this list does show Walter Rouse entering today

Sorry for the misinformation.  Strange that Rivals tweeted it yesterday.  However, the news of Rouse's entry is pretty big.  I hope we can get him back. As it stands, we are lining up to have a very young and thin team at practically all position groups.

The longer it takes to rebuild this program the more inept the prior regime looks in retrospect. People still knock Willingham for leaving a bare cupboard when he left for South Bend. Stanford's "cupboard" today isn't bare, it's nonexistent. Brace yourself for the home opener vs. Sac St. But, hey, I plan to be there regardless. First time since the 2019 Big Game. Gotta take the l-o-n-g view.

[Phogge]

I thought that DiCosmo had a bit of a motor but JMF was mostly hurt. Agree with Sam, better gone than to take reps from somebody, who hopefully, has a chance to contribute down the road.


As for losing the two LDS recruits, guys who were probably going on a mission, wouldn't help for two years, if ever.

As for redshirting freshmen, hope that is buried except for injury.

[Phogge]

I thought that DiCosmo had a bit of a motor but JMF was mostly hurt. Agree with Sam, better gone than to take reps from somebody, who hopefully, has a chance to contribute down the road.


As for losing the two LDS recruits, guys who were probably going on a mission, wouldn't help for two years, if ever.

As for redshirting freshmen, hope that is buried except for injury.

[Spiny_Norman]

It should be a clear sign of the program's troubles that all of the 2022 captains eligible to return to the team are leaving - Damuni, Nugent, McKee, Miezan and McGill.

Stanford's talent level next season could be the equivalent of a pro sports expansion team. And without the benefit of any high draft picks or free agents.

[Spiny_Norman]

It should be a clear sign of the program's troubles that all of the 2022 captains eligible to return to the team are leaving - Damuni, Nugent, McKee, Miezan and McGill.

Stanford's talent level next season could be the equivalent of a pro sports expansion team. And without the benefit of any high draft picks or free agents.

[SamuelMcF]

It should be a clear sign of the program's troubles that all of the 2022 captains eligible to return to the team are leaving - Damuni, Nugent, McKee, Miezan and McGill.

Stanford's talent level next season could be the equivalent of a pro sports expansion team. And without the benefit of any high draft picks or free agents.

The new coaches will in all likelihood, however, get more out of said talent level than the ones walking out the door who we know wouldn't have done squat.

[SamuelMcF]

It should be a clear sign of the program's troubles that all of the 2022 captains eligible to return to the team are leaving - Damuni, Nugent, McKee, Miezan and McGill.

Stanford's talent level next season could be the equivalent of a pro sports expansion team. And without the benefit of any high draft picks or free agents.

The new coaches will in all likelihood, however, get more out of said talent level than the ones walking out the door who we know wouldn't have done squat.

[StanfordMatt]

It should be a clear sign of the program's troubles that all of the 2022 captains eligible to return to the team are leaving - Damuni, Nugent, McKee, Miezan and McGill.

Stanford's talent level next season could be the equivalent of a pro sports expansion team. And without the benefit of any high draft picks or free agents.

Crazy thought here but couldn't it be the case that contrary to the prevailing opinion on this board, a lot of players, particularly captains, actually loved playing for Shaw and the prior staff despite the losses and have no interest in sticking around to be coached by a new staff that they have no relationships with???

[StanfordMatt]

It should be a clear sign of the program's troubles that all of the 2022 captains eligible to return to the team are leaving - Damuni, Nugent, McKee, Miezan and McGill.

Stanford's talent level next season could be the equivalent of a pro sports expansion team. And without the benefit of any high draft picks or free agents.

Crazy thought here but couldn't it be the case that contrary to the prevailing opinion on this board, a lot of players, particularly captains, actually loved playing for Shaw and the prior staff despite the losses and have no interest in sticking around to be coached by a new staff that they have no relationships with???

[SamuelMcF]

It should be a clear sign of the program's troubles that all of the 2022 captains eligible to return to the team are leaving - Damuni, Nugent, McKee, Miezan and McGill.

Stanford's talent level next season could be the equivalent of a pro sports expansion team. And without the benefit of any high draft picks or free agents.

Crazy thought here but couldn't it be the case that contrary to the prevailing opinion on this board, a lot of players, particularly captains, actually loved playing for Shaw and the prior staff despite the losses and have no interest in sticking around to be coached by a new staff that they have no relationships with???

We've had exoduses like this one for the past 3 years. Why is this one different? Have you considered that players aren't leaving because Shaw is, rather that Shaw left because the players were leaving?

"No interest in sticking around?" Definitely.

[SamuelMcF]

It should be a clear sign of the program's troubles that all of the 2022 captains eligible to return to the team are leaving - Damuni, Nugent, McKee, Miezan and McGill.

Stanford's talent level next season could be the equivalent of a pro sports expansion team. And without the benefit of any high draft picks or free agents.

Crazy thought here but couldn't it be the case that contrary to the prevailing opinion on this board, a lot of players, particularly captains, actually loved playing for Shaw and the prior staff despite the losses and have no interest in sticking around to be coached by a new staff that they have no relationships with???

We've had exoduses like this one for the past 3 years. Why is this one different? Have you considered that players aren't leaving because Shaw is, rather that Shaw left because the players were leaving?

"No interest in sticking around?" Definitely.

[76lsjumb]

It should be a clear sign of the program's troubles that all of the 2022 captains eligible to return to the team are leaving - Damuni, Nugent, McKee, Miezan and McGill.

Stanford's talent level next season could be the equivalent of a pro sports expansion team. And without the benefit of any high draft picks or free agents.

Crazy thought here but couldn't it be the case that contrary to the prevailing opinion on this board, a lot of players, particularly captains, actually loved playing for Shaw and the prior staff despite the losses and have no interest in sticking around to be coached by a new staff that they have no relationships with???

C'mon, quit trying to be logical.  That allows for optimism, which isn't permitted on this Board.  Of course all of the players are leaving because they don't want to have to play for all of the horrible coaches that they wouldn't have had to play for anyway because they are no longer there.  See, whatever bad that happens is going to be due to Shawvita forever, just like everything that happens in basketball is Dawkins' fault... forever.

[76lsjumb]

It should be a clear sign of the program's troubles that all of the 2022 captains eligible to return to the team are leaving - Damuni, Nugent, McKee, Miezan and McGill.

Stanford's talent level next season could be the equivalent of a pro sports expansion team. And without the benefit of any high draft picks or free agents.

Crazy thought here but couldn't it be the case that contrary to the prevailing opinion on this board, a lot of players, particularly captains, actually loved playing for Shaw and the prior staff despite the losses and have no interest in sticking around to be coached by a new staff that they have no relationships with???

C'mon, quit trying to be logical.  That allows for optimism, which isn't permitted on this Board.  Of course all of the players are leaving because they don't want to have to play for all of the horrible coaches that they wouldn't have had to play for anyway because they are no longer there.  See, whatever bad that happens is going to be due to Shawvita forever, just like everything that happens in basketball is Dawkins' fault... forever.

[SamuelMcF]

It should be a clear sign of the program's troubles that all of the 2022 captains eligible to return to the team are leaving - Damuni, Nugent, McKee, Miezan and McGill.

Stanford's talent level next season could be the equivalent of a pro sports expansion team. And without the benefit of any high draft picks or free agents.

Crazy thought here but couldn't it be the case that contrary to the prevailing opinion on this board, a lot of players, particularly captains, actually loved playing for Shaw and the prior staff despite the losses and have no interest in sticking around to be coached by a new staff that they have no relationships with???

C'mon, quit trying to be logical.  That allows for optimism, which isn't permitted on this Board.  Of course all of the players are leaving because they don't want to have to play for all of the horrible coaches that they wouldn't have had to play for anyway because they are no longer there.  See, whatever bad that happens is going to be due to Shawvita forever, just like everything that happens in basketball is Dawkins' fault... forever.

Most are leaving because they have their degrees, are sick of losing, and don't want to be here for 1 more year in the beginning of a rebuild. 

This is not an opinion.

[SamuelMcF]

It should be a clear sign of the program's troubles that all of the 2022 captains eligible to return to the team are leaving - Damuni, Nugent, McKee, Miezan and McGill.

Stanford's talent level next season could be the equivalent of a pro sports expansion team. And without the benefit of any high draft picks or free agents.

Crazy thought here but couldn't it be the case that contrary to the prevailing opinion on this board, a lot of players, particularly captains, actually loved playing for Shaw and the prior staff despite the losses and have no interest in sticking around to be coached by a new staff that they have no relationships with???

C'mon, quit trying to be logical.  That allows for optimism, which isn't permitted on this Board.  Of course all of the players are leaving because they don't want to have to play for all of the horrible coaches that they wouldn't have had to play for anyway because they are no longer there.  See, whatever bad that happens is going to be due to Shawvita forever, just like everything that happens in basketball is Dawkins' fault... forever.

Most are leaving because they have their degrees, are sick of losing, and don't want to be here for 1 more year in the beginning of a rebuild. 

This is not an opinion.

[Spiny_Norman]

It should be a clear sign of the program's troubles that all of the 2022 captains eligible to return to the team are leaving - Damuni, Nugent, McKee, Miezan and McGill.

Stanford's talent level next season could be the equivalent of a pro sports expansion team. And without the benefit of any high draft picks or free agents.

The new coaches will in all likelihood, however, get more out of said talent level than the ones walking out the door who we know wouldn't have done squat.

Absolutely. Of course, the bar is set pretty low on the "get more out of the talent" metric.

[Spiny_Norman]

It should be a clear sign of the program's troubles that all of the 2022 captains eligible to return to the team are leaving - Damuni, Nugent, McKee, Miezan and McGill.

Stanford's talent level next season could be the equivalent of a pro sports expansion team. And without the benefit of any high draft picks or free agents.

The new coaches will in all likelihood, however, get more out of said talent level than the ones walking out the door who we know wouldn't have done squat.

Absolutely. Of course, the bar is set pretty low on the "get more out of the talent" metric.

[BostonCard]

Sorry for the misinformation.  Strange that Rivals tweeted it yesterday.  However, the news of Rouse's entry is pretty big.  I hope we can get him back. As it stands, we are lining up to have a very young and thin team at practically all position groups.

Getting a few players back for one year (or even a few grad transfers for one year) will make no difference. The 2023 team is going to suck no matter what, though we can take solace that it would've been worse with no hope under the previous regime.

Would WAY rather have said younger players get a ton of reps under a new scheme, actually develop properly (what a concept!), and instill the new culture. We need to get the losing, complacent, players-leave-the-second-they-can stench of Shaw off this program. I hope nobody has expectations of going bowling next year, because barring a miracle we won't. This is how a ground-up rebuild works.

We thought we could take solace when Teevens was fired that Harris could not be worse or when Dawkins was fired that Haase could not be worse, but alas... I think it is reasonable to hope that he will be better, an Matt has done some really nice data crunching suggesting as much,  but until Taylor has a few seasons under his belt, it could go either way.

Getting good players to stay is helpful because it becomes much easier to sell that a rebuild is happening if there is clear positive momentum.  Agree that going bowling next year is unlikely barring a miracle, but in terms of forward momentum, being able to show even four wins (compared to three the last two seasons) would be something we can point to as visible signs of progress.  

WE were in much rougher shape after Harris' 1-11 season (two consecutive unsuccessful coaches, five years since the last winning season, on the heels of a 1-11 season), and though Harbaugh did not get us to a winning season, the 4-8 season he did produce was a significant improvement and really provided forward momentum.

At the very least, you want to show that we have hit bottom.

BC

[BostonCard]

Sorry for the misinformation.  Strange that Rivals tweeted it yesterday.  However, the news of Rouse's entry is pretty big.  I hope we can get him back. As it stands, we are lining up to have a very young and thin team at practically all position groups.

Getting a few players back for one year (or even a few grad transfers for one year) will make no difference. The 2023 team is going to suck no matter what, though we can take solace that it would've been worse with no hope under the previous regime.

Would WAY rather have said younger players get a ton of reps under a new scheme, actually develop properly (what a concept!), and instill the new culture. We need to get the losing, complacent, players-leave-the-second-they-can stench of Shaw off this program. I hope nobody has expectations of going bowling next year, because barring a miracle we won't. This is how a ground-up rebuild works.

We thought we could take solace when Teevens was fired that Harris could not be worse or when Dawkins was fired that Haase could not be worse, but alas... I think it is reasonable to hope that he will be better, an Matt has done some really nice data crunching suggesting as much,  but until Taylor has a few seasons under his belt, it could go either way.

Getting good players to stay is helpful because it becomes much easier to sell that a rebuild is happening if there is clear positive momentum.  Agree that going bowling next year is unlikely barring a miracle, but in terms of forward momentum, being able to show even four wins (compared to three the last two seasons) would be something we can point to as visible signs of progress.  

WE were in much rougher shape after Harris' 1-11 season (two consecutive unsuccessful coaches, five years since the last winning season, on the heels of a 1-11 season), and though Harbaugh did not get us to a winning season, the 4-8 season he did produce was a significant improvement and really provided forward momentum.

At the very least, you want to show that we have hit bottom.

BC

[msqueri]

I agree with BC's take in this exchange. I am very sympathetic to the SamuelMcF argument and have made a similar argument about getting Shaw stench off as quickly as possible, even if it means losing senior key contributors, but I think guys like McKee, Higgins, Nugent, Rouse, McGill, Damuni, Bonner, and Miezan very well could have been the difference between a 4-ish win season that feels like stabilizing or even progress or a lesser season that runs the risk of stalling any momentum or optimism for the Taylor era.

Provisional take as I am not yet at the point of analyzing 2023 rosters and schedule to game out chances. But it seems non-controversial to me that OL, DB, and LB will be in a very troublesome situation next year if these guys all do depart.

[msqueri]

I agree with BC's take in this exchange. I am very sympathetic to the SamuelMcF argument and have made a similar argument about getting Shaw stench off as quickly as possible, even if it means losing senior key contributors, but I think guys like McKee, Higgins, Nugent, Rouse, McGill, Damuni, Bonner, and Miezan very well could have been the difference between a 4-ish win season that feels like stabilizing or even progress or a lesser season that runs the risk of stalling any momentum or optimism for the Taylor era.

Provisional take as I am not yet at the point of analyzing 2023 rosters and schedule to game out chances. But it seems non-controversial to me that OL, DB, and LB will be in a very troublesome situation next year if these guys all do depart.

[Goose]

Most are leaving because they have their degrees, are sick of losing, and don't want to be here for 1 more year in the beginning of a rebuild. 


This is not an opinion.

From your statement I can only assume you have talked to one or more of them, but even if you had not done so, I think it is pretty obvious there was no reason to stay and good reasons to leave. If perchance they liked Shaw et al and felt loyalty or something like it, Shaw is gone. If they didn't, the other three reasons are quite enough to explain going IMO. There is no up side in staying. There may be in going if you can find a good landing spot.

[Goose]

Most are leaving because they have their degrees, are sick of losing, and don't want to be here for 1 more year in the beginning of a rebuild. 


This is not an opinion.

From your statement I can only assume you have talked to one or more of them, but even if you had not done so, I think it is pretty obvious there was no reason to stay and good reasons to leave. If perchance they liked Shaw et al and felt loyalty or something like it, Shaw is gone. If they didn't, the other three reasons are quite enough to explain going IMO. There is no up side in staying. There may be in going if you can find a good landing spot.

[Maple Leaf]

It should be a clear sign of the program's troubles that all of the 2022 captains eligible to return to the team are leaving - Damuni, Nugent, McKee, Miezan and McGill.

Stanford's talent level next season could be the equivalent of a pro sports expansion team. And without the benefit of any high draft picks or free agents.

Crazy thought here but couldn't it be the case that contrary to the prevailing opinion on this board, a lot of players, particularly captains, actually loved playing for Shaw and the prior staff despite the losses and have no interest in sticking around to be coached by a new staff that they have no relationships with???

C'mon, quit trying to be logical.  That allows for optimism, which isn't permitted on this Board.  Of course all of the players are leaving because they don't want to have to play for all of the horrible coaches that they wouldn't have had to play for anyway because they are no longer there.  See, whatever bad that happens is going to be due to Shawvita forever, just like everything that happens in basketball is Dawkins' fault... forever.

Most are leaving because they have their degrees, are sick of losing, and don't want to be here for 1 more year in the beginning of a rebuild. 

This is not an opinion.

Sick of losing by large margins and not being put in a position to win those games which are close.

So far only one non-academic senior is in the portal which is a good sign.

[Maple Leaf]

It should be a clear sign of the program's troubles that all of the 2022 captains eligible to return to the team are leaving - Damuni, Nugent, McKee, Miezan and McGill.

Stanford's talent level next season could be the equivalent of a pro sports expansion team. And without the benefit of any high draft picks or free agents.

Crazy thought here but couldn't it be the case that contrary to the prevailing opinion on this board, a lot of players, particularly captains, actually loved playing for Shaw and the prior staff despite the losses and have no interest in sticking around to be coached by a new staff that they have no relationships with???

C'mon, quit trying to be logical.  That allows for optimism, which isn't permitted on this Board.  Of course all of the players are leaving because they don't want to have to play for all of the horrible coaches that they wouldn't have had to play for anyway because they are no longer there.  See, whatever bad that happens is going to be due to Shawvita forever, just like everything that happens in basketball is Dawkins' fault... forever.

Most are leaving because they have their degrees, are sick of losing, and don't want to be here for 1 more year in the beginning of a rebuild. 

This is not an opinion.

Sick of losing by large margins and not being put in a position to win those games which are close.

So far only one non-academic senior is in the portal which is a good sign.