[Farm93]

[quote author=Farm93 link=topic=16963.msg194594#msg194594 date=1496956747]
#2 - So this hard on their luck family is now pulling in income that puts that in the top 3% of US households?  It sounds like a dramatic drop in wealth, income and health, but based on your description they were likely in the top 1 or 2% of households prior to the events.  Yes, I realize $190K in Silicon Valley is middle class, but on federal formulas that's still a high standard of living.  UCB's subsidized tuition for all approach would likely have been good for them if attending a college was purely based on finding the lowest cost school as their assets and recent FAFSA type earnings over the last few years were going to be more than your average family in the US.

Well, $190k is the top 4% for the USA, not top 1% or 2% or 3%.  And it would be a high standard of living in Detroit or Topeka or Biloxi...not so much in silicon valley where the two of them make the $190k.  Color me impressed by how you blithely dismiss 'the events," you sound just like he describes their financial aid counselors.  Personally, I wouldn't have the stones to do that to a couple who'd lost everything, but that's just me.

So here's their situation: $190k less $70k in fed/state/FICA/SDI taxes.  High, because they don't have mortgage or property tax deductions.  So after tax, they have about $10k/month.  They rent a shithole for $4k leaving $6k.  Their payments on all of their college loans are $2,700 per month, leaving $3,300.  Medical insurance, deductible and payments are another $600, so now it's $2,700 per month for all expenses for two adults plus the youngest child.  They don't qualify for medical aid.  Happily, they make enough to fund his life insurance, because, well, ya never know.
[/quote]
My point was to apply the same approach a Financial Aid office would in that case.  So thanks, I guess.  This is about formulas, though that's easier to perform on a chat board than if I was living in that situation. 

The individual situation, outside of the financial, sounds awful, for sure.  Just doesn't matter in the case of the federal formulas.  A school may or many not have their own funds for unique financial hardships that fall outside of the federal formulas, but there are lots of tough stories out there.  The financial part of the story, even as outlined, is still so much better than most USA families and really even better than most in the SF Bay Area as median household income in most Bay Area towns is well below $190K.

The formulas say they were doing well a year or two ago and are doing well now.  Lots of very wealthy families can look poor for 12 months, so the financial aid formulas usually look at assets now and income over the last few years.  Their losses (health and financial) likely make it hard as clearly their standard of living is less than it was before.  Still most families in the USA are not going to afford a $4000/mth house of any type even pre-tax as median household income sits in the $50-60K range pre-tax.

This family is now in that zone where public schools are a financially sensible choice.  They earn too much for typical working and middle class financial aid, and apparently no longer have enough assets to not worry about paying full freight tuition.  Sounds like when the started the process they might have been in the zone wealthy enough to not be worried, so that change in assets is also a factor to them as drops in living standards are hard.  Their real struggles are also hard for others to appreciate, like say a financial aid officer with a household income well below $190K.

[Farm93]

[quote author=Farm93 link=topic=16963.msg194594#msg194594 date=1496956747]
#2 - So this hard on their luck family is now pulling in income that puts that in the top 3% of US households?  It sounds like a dramatic drop in wealth, income and health, but based on your description they were likely in the top 1 or 2% of households prior to the events.  Yes, I realize $190K in Silicon Valley is middle class, but on federal formulas that's still a high standard of living.  UCB's subsidized tuition for all approach would likely have been good for them if attending a college was purely based on finding the lowest cost school as their assets and recent FAFSA type earnings over the last few years were going to be more than your average family in the US.

Well, $190k is the top 4% for the USA, not top 1% or 2% or 3%.  And it would be a high standard of living in Detroit or Topeka or Biloxi...not so much in silicon valley where the two of them make the $190k.  Color me impressed by how you blithely dismiss 'the events," you sound just like he describes their financial aid counselors.  Personally, I wouldn't have the stones to do that to a couple who'd lost everything, but that's just me.

So here's their situation: $190k less $70k in fed/state/FICA/SDI taxes.  High, because they don't have mortgage or property tax deductions.  So after tax, they have about $10k/month.  They rent a shithole for $4k leaving $6k.  Their payments on all of their college loans are $2,700 per month, leaving $3,300.  Medical insurance, deductible and payments are another $600, so now it's $2,700 per month for all expenses for two adults plus the youngest child.  They don't qualify for medical aid.  Happily, they make enough to fund his life insurance, because, well, ya never know.
[/quote]
My point was to apply the same approach a Financial Aid office would in that case.  So thanks, I guess.  This is about formulas, though that's easier to perform on a chat board than if I was living in that situation. 

The individual situation, outside of the financial, sounds awful, for sure.  Just doesn't matter in the case of the federal formulas.  A school may or many not have their own funds for unique financial hardships that fall outside of the federal formulas, but there are lots of tough stories out there.  The financial part of the story, even as outlined, is still so much better than most USA families and really even better than most in the SF Bay Area as median household income in most Bay Area towns is well below $190K.

The formulas say they were doing well a year or two ago and are doing well now.  Lots of very wealthy families can look poor for 12 months, so the financial aid formulas usually look at assets now and income over the last few years.  Their losses (health and financial) likely make it hard as clearly their standard of living is less than it was before.  Still most families in the USA are not going to afford a $4000/mth house of any type even pre-tax as median household income sits in the $50-60K range pre-tax.

This family is now in that zone where public schools are a financially sensible choice.  They earn too much for typical working and middle class financial aid, and apparently no longer have enough assets to not worry about paying full freight tuition.  Sounds like when the started the process they might have been in the zone wealthy enough to not be worried, so that change in assets is also a factor to them as drops in living standards are hard.  Their real struggles are also hard for others to appreciate, like say a financial aid officer with a household income well below $190K.