[CTcard]

I too hate the turtling at the end of games. I especially hate it this year when our run game is so ineffectual. KJ is mature enough to understand game situations and I'd say to let him lead in that setting.  Overall I think the odds of KJ throwing for a first down and winning the game when the D is stacking against the run are higher then the odds our defense will get a stop.  This, to their credit, they did, but it was a near miss.  Just because it hasn't cost a game to my recollection doesn't mean it won't soon.

Obviously, turtling at the end of games was going to become a topic again after that game.
I guess the first thing I would say is that I am glad that we were ahead by enough to have an option to turtle.

Generally, I have been a defender of Shaw on turtling. I haven't checked lately, but I think it is still true that Stanford has never lost a game due to going into turtle mode [though it is possible some precise definition of turtling is necessary for that to be true - I don't quite remember]. More importantly, most of the time there is, at the least, a strong argument that Shaw's approach gave the best chance to win - even if it gave the worst chance to have compelling football to watch.

In my opinion, this game was one of the least defensible acts of turtling. It looks like the turtling began on the second play of the fourth quarter, immediately after the Scarlett tripping penalty that wiped out a completion to Irwin. That's too long, with too little a lead, and with too poor a run game for this approach.
From that point forward, Stanford ran 13 runs (12 by Speights, 1 scramble by Costello) and 1 pass. The only first down came on the pass plus scramble after a holding penalty. This gave ASU 4 possessions in the fourth quarter (their most in any quarter) and two possessions when within a score.

Of course I temper all of this with the fact that it actually did work, that ASU ran out of time, so I shouldn't be too certain of my stance.

Still too many missed tackles in the secondary but with the exception of that blown zone coverage that let up the 50 yard pass (not sure if Holder's fault for not tracking deeper or Safeties fault for not being over the top), Adebo and Holder had great coverage on the outside. 

Holder had several blatant misses, and looked notably slow to me. I am quite sure he isn't fully healthy.
Adebo generally was fantastic (he spent most of the game stonewalling the likely #1 WR in the next draft), though he did make a blatant misplay that gave up a 28 yard catch and gave ASU a shot to win at the end. A rookie mistake - but an awesome game.

Offensively I remain convinced that our best bet is to run no-huddle and give KJ the keys to the car.  I'm not saying he won't make some dumb plays and was lucky to avoid a pick on that post to smith, but our offense works best when he is out there slinging the ball.  No-huddle slows the pass rush, limits the fancy blitzes and pre snap defensive motion that have given us fits, and I think keeps Shaw from getting too cute with personnel packages for televised runs.

televised ??

I generally disagree on the no-huddle, but you make reasoned arguments. Hmmm.

[CTcard]

I too hate the turtling at the end of games. I especially hate it this year when our run game is so ineffectual. KJ is mature enough to understand game situations and I'd say to let him lead in that setting.  Overall I think the odds of KJ throwing for a first down and winning the game when the D is stacking against the run are higher then the odds our defense will get a stop.  This, to their credit, they did, but it was a near miss.  Just because it hasn't cost a game to my recollection doesn't mean it won't soon.

Obviously, turtling at the end of games was going to become a topic again after that game.
I guess the first thing I would say is that I am glad that we were ahead by enough to have an option to turtle.

Generally, I have been a defender of Shaw on turtling. I haven't checked lately, but I think it is still true that Stanford has never lost a game due to going into turtle mode [though it is possible some precise definition of turtling is necessary for that to be true - I don't quite remember]. More importantly, most of the time there is, at the least, a strong argument that Shaw's approach gave the best chance to win - even if it gave the worst chance to have compelling football to watch.

In my opinion, this game was one of the least defensible acts of turtling. It looks like the turtling began on the second play of the fourth quarter, immediately after the Scarlett tripping penalty that wiped out a completion to Irwin. That's too long, with too little a lead, and with too poor a run game for this approach.
From that point forward, Stanford ran 13 runs (12 by Speights, 1 scramble by Costello) and 1 pass. The only first down came on the pass plus scramble after a holding penalty. This gave ASU 4 possessions in the fourth quarter (their most in any quarter) and two possessions when within a score.

Of course I temper all of this with the fact that it actually did work, that ASU ran out of time, so I shouldn't be too certain of my stance.

Still too many missed tackles in the secondary but with the exception of that blown zone coverage that let up the 50 yard pass (not sure if Holder's fault for not tracking deeper or Safeties fault for not being over the top), Adebo and Holder had great coverage on the outside. 

Holder had several blatant misses, and looked notably slow to me. I am quite sure he isn't fully healthy.
Adebo generally was fantastic (he spent most of the game stonewalling the likely #1 WR in the next draft), though he did make a blatant misplay that gave up a 28 yard catch and gave ASU a shot to win at the end. A rookie mistake - but an awesome game.

Offensively I remain convinced that our best bet is to run no-huddle and give KJ the keys to the car.  I'm not saying he won't make some dumb plays and was lucky to avoid a pick on that post to smith, but our offense works best when he is out there slinging the ball.  No-huddle slows the pass rush, limits the fancy blitzes and pre snap defensive motion that have given us fits, and I think keeps Shaw from getting too cute with personnel packages for televised runs.

televised ??

I generally disagree on the no-huddle, but you make reasoned arguments. Hmmm.