As are all Stanford fans, I’ll always be grateful for the amazing turnaround Harbaugh (and Bowlsby) acheieved. Yet I’ve often thought that many of the criticisms levied at Shaw also apply to Harbaugh:
1. Picking the wrong QB. (Burns over Chryst, over Costello over Mills etc). No decision Shaw ever makes will be as poor as redshirting Luck. Especially when Pritchard was the choice. Interestingly, I think he was very close to playing Luck I’ll tell you exactly when it was. San Jose State game at home, late first half. Stanford was struggling offensively. Luck got up and was warming up. About 15 feet from me right behind me. Pritchard then led Stanford on a touchdown drive and stayed in the game. I always thought that if Stanford did not score on that drive we would’ve seen Luck. Too bad. What a waste to not play him. And if you think that’s a one off remember that he benched Smith after an injury at a time he Smith was playing the best football of his career and turned it over to a Kaepernick.
2. Can’t develop QB’s Kaepernick got worse, not better. Always a one-trick pony. His current QB Shae Patterson was the top HS QB recruit. Certainly hasn’t lived up to the billing.
3 Bad playcalling at key moments. Remember’09 BG. Gerhardt running through Cal like ***** through a goose. And, yet with the game on the line he doesn’t give him the ball. Sure he had Luck. But still. And he repeated the mistake in the Super Bowl. Gore running well, yet they get inside the 10 and he leaves it in Kaepernick’s hands. I always thought the QB in him came out at those times He would have wanted to be “the decider” so....
4. Delay. Frankly all teams have snap issues at times. But it was every bit as true of Harbaugh’s team as Shaws. Always fighting the play clock. And again I’ll give you the Super Bowl as the best example. Had to call a time out with the play clock running down on the final series. And it killed them.
5. Can’t win the big one. Going back to of course 2011 and Michigan State with Shaw. But let me ask you this – give me one big game that Harbaugh has ever won? Orange Bowl doesn’t really count. That was a great football team and Virginia Tech was not. Actually was a ******* matchup. I wish Stanford would have drawn someone better. They still would have crushed them.
None of this is to suggest that Shaw is the equal of Harbaugh. I don’t think he is. Particularly as a recruiter. Harbaugh is relentless and not afraid to push the limits a bit. Creative also. I remember when he was recruiting Mixon ( or it may have been Harris) and he handle the down markers for a while at the game. I also remember a story when he was recruiting I think a punter of all things and ended up sleeping over at his house. He got them. More than anything else I think the biggest difference between Shaw and Harbaugh is the passion Harbaugh has in recruiting.
But Harbaugh has plenty of flaws. I haven’t even gotten to the personality issues. Plain fact of the matter is there’s no way he could’ve been a long timer at Stanford. So as the stain said – get over it. He’s long gone. One last point – I know a lot of people think Stanford picked the wrong guy in Shaw, Should’ve picked either Fangio or I think The person of choice was Roman. But again I ask a simple question – how many head coaching opportunities has Roman had since he left Stanford in 2010? I think the answer is zero. I suspect there’s a reason for that. Although he’s had a great year this year with Baltimore so he may get a shot moving forward. As for Fangio unfortunately I think will see that he’s a short timer in Denver. Great defensive coordinator. Not really sure hes a head coach type. Hope I’m wrong. Like the guy really would like to see him succeed. By the way – if Elway was anybody but Elway I think he’d be out at Denver. Ironically he can’t seem to find a quarterback.
Fire away.
Sorry, you won’t have that coach for long. Shaw is a lifer cause he loves the University. If he had opportunity to leave (and frankly, I never have thought he’d be a good NFL coach) He turned them down over loyalty to the school he loves. Anybody else takes the opportunity. Stanford always had been a steppingstone job. And it’s never gonna be different. The Bay Area is a lousy college football area it ain’t the SEC and it certainly ain’t the NFL.
quote="cardcrimson" pid='260411' dateline='1573401445']
I don't want a coach who is afraid to be held to high expectations and coach against the best. Being at Stanford, doesn't preclude that. It almost sounds like you think it does. Then again, as many people have noted, he has no apparent high expectations from the AD and some of the fan base. Many are quite content with his record of yesteryear. And he certainly hasn't challenged himself with or against the best--a quick glance at his hires for assistants proves that.
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1. Picking the wrong QB. (Burns over Chryst, over Costello over Mills etc). No decision Shaw ever makes will be as poor as redshirting Luck. Especially when Pritchard was the choice. Interestingly, I think he was very close to playing Luck I’ll tell you exactly when it was. San Jose State game at home, late first half. Stanford was struggling offensively. Luck got up and was warming up. About 15 feet from me right behind me. Pritchard then led Stanford on a touchdown drive and stayed in the game. I always thought that if Stanford did not score on that drive we would’ve seen Luck. Too bad. What a waste to not play him. And if you think that’s a one off remember that he benched Smith after an injury at a time he Smith was playing the best football of his career and turned it over to a Kaepernick.
2. Can’t develop QB’s Kaepernick got worse, not better. Always a one-trick pony. His current QB Shae Patterson was the top HS QB recruit. Certainly hasn’t lived up to the billing.
3 Bad playcalling at key moments. Remember’09 BG. Gerhardt running through Cal like ***** through a goose. And, yet with the game on the line he doesn’t give him the ball. Sure he had Luck. But still. And he repeated the mistake in the Super Bowl. Gore running well, yet they get inside the 10 and he leaves it in Kaepernick’s hands. I always thought the QB in him came out at those times He would have wanted to be “the decider” so....
4. Delay. Frankly all teams have snap issues at times. But it was every bit as true of Harbaugh’s team as Shaws. Always fighting the play clock. And again I’ll give you the Super Bowl as the best example. Had to call a time out with the play clock running down on the final series. And it killed them.
5. Can’t win the big one. Going back to of course 2011 and Michigan State with Shaw. But let me ask you this – give me one big game that Harbaugh has ever won? Orange Bowl doesn’t really count. That was a great football team and Virginia Tech was not. Actually was a ******* matchup. I wish Stanford would have drawn someone better. They still would have crushed them.
None of this is to suggest that Shaw is the equal of Harbaugh. I don’t think he is. Particularly as a recruiter. Harbaugh is relentless and not afraid to push the limits a bit. Creative also. I remember when he was recruiting Mixon ( or it may have been Harris) and he handle the down markers for a while at the game. I also remember a story when he was recruiting I think a punter of all things and ended up sleeping over at his house. He got them. More than anything else I think the biggest difference between Shaw and Harbaugh is the passion Harbaugh has in recruiting.
But Harbaugh has plenty of flaws. I haven’t even gotten to the personality issues. Plain fact of the matter is there’s no way he could’ve been a long timer at Stanford. So as the stain said – get over it. He’s long gone. One last point – I know a lot of people think Stanford picked the wrong guy in Shaw, Should’ve picked either Fangio or I think The person of choice was Roman. But again I ask a simple question – how many head coaching opportunities has Roman had since he left Stanford in 2010? I think the answer is zero. I suspect there’s a reason for that. Although he’s had a great year this year with Baltimore so he may get a shot moving forward. As for Fangio unfortunately I think will see that he’s a short timer in Denver. Great defensive coordinator. Not really sure hes a head coach type. Hope I’m wrong. Like the guy really would like to see him succeed. By the way – if Elway was anybody but Elway I think he’d be out at Denver. Ironically he can’t seem to find a quarterback.
Fire away.
Sorry, you won’t have that coach for long. Shaw is a lifer cause he loves the University. If he had opportunity to leave (and frankly, I never have thought he’d be a good NFL coach) He turned them down over loyalty to the school he loves. Anybody else takes the opportunity. Stanford always had been a steppingstone job. And it’s never gonna be different. The Bay Area is a lousy college football area it ain’t the SEC and it certainly ain’t the NFL.
quote="cardcrimson" pid='260411' dateline='1573401445']
(11-10-2019, 08:37 AM)JohnR34231 Wrote:(11-10-2019, 08:31 AM)cardcrimson Wrote:(11-10-2019, 08:16 AM)JohnR34231 Wrote:(11-10-2019, 08:10 AM)cardcrimson Wrote: So, if I read your comment correctly, Shaw is not a top tier coach in your opinion. If he were great or top tier, he would have wanted to challenge himself at the highest level, either at other programs or the NFL. Since Shaw has not, he is happily complacent at Stanford and mediocrity.
Fair point indeed.
Shaw says he knows a lot of people coaching in the NFL and they are not having nearly as much fun as he is (although possibly not now).
So I wouldn't assume the reason Shaw hasn't gone to the NFL is that he is content to wallow in mediocrity.
Why not then, because he is afraid to be held to the high expectations of the NFL or top tier programs?
Maybe he just enjoys coaching college football at Stanford. After all he has been in the NFL before. He knows what it is like.
As far as not being held to high expectations is concerned, maybe the athletic department doesn't, but there sure are plenty of fans who do.
It almost sounds like you are saying you wouldn't want a coach who didn't leave Stanford after he had some success because he would e afraid to be held to high expectations and coach against the best.
Can't agree there.
I don't want a coach who is afraid to be held to high expectations and coach against the best. Being at Stanford, doesn't preclude that. It almost sounds like you think it does. Then again, as many people have noted, he has no apparent high expectations from the AD and some of the fan base. Many are quite content with his record of yesteryear. And he certainly hasn't challenged himself with or against the best--a quick glance at his hires for assistants proves that.
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