[76lsjumb]

I don't know what else you want.  I provided five examples of Power five teams with substantively empty stadiums, and linked the accompanying articles, all of which more or less say the same thing, that attendance in college football is dropping across the board.  I noted earlier in the thread that for the first time since 1973, Notre Dame failed to sell out its own game, while you assert, without providing evidence that this is uniquely a Shaw problem.

Maybe (even probably) Shaw has contributed to the decline in attendance.  I would not be the least bit surprised if attendance has dropped more dramatically at Stanford from 2011 to 2019 than it has at other schools, commensurate with the fact that our record has also gotten worse over that time period.  But you made the assertion without the least bit of evidence to support it, and in the context of a longstanding decline in attendance at Stanford football (or did we shrink the stadium just during the Shaw years), the decline of attendance at other Stanford sports (there is an entire thread devoted to the attendance decline in the *checks notes* the number one ranked, Tara Vanderveer coached, Stanford Women's basketball team) and the decline in attendance college football generally, maybe it is possible that the implication that attendance has dropped at Stanford football while Shaw has been coaching means that the attendance drop is due to Shaw's coaching would strike me as the intellectually lazy position.  But you know, maybe your well-researched and nuanced position didn't fully come across in your post.

BC

Looking forward to pictures of empty stadiums when ND plays another P5 opponent.  And to be legit, any such pictures should be taken around the same time . . . say end of Q1.  I had longtime Domer fans who attended the game say they were embarrassed for Stanford and that they are certain this had to be the least attended ND game in the last 50 years.  I have no reason - data, experience, or gut feel - to doubt that assertion.  Hence, what we saw on Saturday was "uniquely Stanford."  I don't dispute that college football attendance generally is not what it used to be (and I actually think Miami is the best "comparable" to Stanford, though the Cardinal never reached the highs - with accompanying fan expectations - that the U did).  But I still believe that the attendance problem at Stanford is worse than at virtually every other school that has been in the Top 10 in the last 5 years.  But hey, glad you're willing to consider the possibility that this coach, running this program, is not helping things on that front.

So, teejers, just wondering which of the following, if any, you blame Shaw for:

1) The weather;

2) The scheduling of ND on Thanksgiving weekend, when students [not to  mention, many fans] are gone;

3) The design of a stadium which -- with its large, circumferential mezzanine area, greatly accentuates the "empty seat" perception on TV, particularly in games that are either very hot or wet/cold [see #1 above]; 

4)  The elimination of a substantial number of long-time season ticket holders a few years back when those long-time season ticket holders' tickets were made prohibitively expensive by the introduction of "seat licenses" and they were replaced by corporate ticket holders and fair weather,  dilletante "fans"; and,

5)  The prospects of having to put up with one of the most obnoxious fan bases in college football, which included a guy in Section 134 [obviously NOT a Stanford season ticket holder] who dropped more F-bombs and GD-bombs at the top of his lungs in the space of one afternoon than I've heard all season and then insisted [again at the top of his lungs] that "I haven't said anything inappropriate, you [expletive deleted] !!!!"

I'd venture that all of those factors combined to contribute to thousands of [real and perceived on TV ] empty seats last weekend.  I don't think Shaw can be blamed for any of them.

[76lsjumb]

I don't know what else you want.  I provided five examples of Power five teams with substantively empty stadiums, and linked the accompanying articles, all of which more or less say the same thing, that attendance in college football is dropping across the board.  I noted earlier in the thread that for the first time since 1973, Notre Dame failed to sell out its own game, while you assert, without providing evidence that this is uniquely a Shaw problem.

Maybe (even probably) Shaw has contributed to the decline in attendance.  I would not be the least bit surprised if attendance has dropped more dramatically at Stanford from 2011 to 2019 than it has at other schools, commensurate with the fact that our record has also gotten worse over that time period.  But you made the assertion without the least bit of evidence to support it, and in the context of a longstanding decline in attendance at Stanford football (or did we shrink the stadium just during the Shaw years), the decline of attendance at other Stanford sports (there is an entire thread devoted to the attendance decline in the *checks notes* the number one ranked, Tara Vanderveer coached, Stanford Women's basketball team) and the decline in attendance college football generally, maybe it is possible that the implication that attendance has dropped at Stanford football while Shaw has been coaching means that the attendance drop is due to Shaw's coaching would strike me as the intellectually lazy position.  But you know, maybe your well-researched and nuanced position didn't fully come across in your post.

BC

Looking forward to pictures of empty stadiums when ND plays another P5 opponent.  And to be legit, any such pictures should be taken around the same time . . . say end of Q1.  I had longtime Domer fans who attended the game say they were embarrassed for Stanford and that they are certain this had to be the least attended ND game in the last 50 years.  I have no reason - data, experience, or gut feel - to doubt that assertion.  Hence, what we saw on Saturday was "uniquely Stanford."  I don't dispute that college football attendance generally is not what it used to be (and I actually think Miami is the best "comparable" to Stanford, though the Cardinal never reached the highs - with accompanying fan expectations - that the U did).  But I still believe that the attendance problem at Stanford is worse than at virtually every other school that has been in the Top 10 in the last 5 years.  But hey, glad you're willing to consider the possibility that this coach, running this program, is not helping things on that front.

So, teejers, just wondering which of the following, if any, you blame Shaw for:

1) The weather;

2) The scheduling of ND on Thanksgiving weekend, when students [not to  mention, many fans] are gone;

3) The design of a stadium which -- with its large, circumferential mezzanine area, greatly accentuates the "empty seat" perception on TV, particularly in games that are either very hot or wet/cold [see #1 above]; 

4)  The elimination of a substantial number of long-time season ticket holders a few years back when those long-time season ticket holders' tickets were made prohibitively expensive by the introduction of "seat licenses" and they were replaced by corporate ticket holders and fair weather,  dilletante "fans"; and,

5)  The prospects of having to put up with one of the most obnoxious fan bases in college football, which included a guy in Section 134 [obviously NOT a Stanford season ticket holder] who dropped more F-bombs and GD-bombs at the top of his lungs in the space of one afternoon than I've heard all season and then insisted [again at the top of his lungs] that "I haven't said anything inappropriate, you [expletive deleted] !!!!"

I'd venture that all of those factors combined to contribute to thousands of [real and perceived on TV ] empty seats last weekend.  I don't think Shaw can be blamed for any of them.