[cardcrimson]

Didn't even remember that Larry Walker played for the Rockies. Barely thought of him as a player at all, so was surprised that he was elected. Actually thought he may have been on the old timers ballot, if there is one.

Posey should be a lock. Lex, you missed his pitch calling skills as well.

He was a Coors creation, no doubt.  His OPS would be fourth all-time just based on Coors productivity.  Away from Coors, he's about #120 at .865.  So think Josh Hamilton, Jose Canseco, Danny Tartabull, John Olerud, Norm Cash, David Wright.  Not Hall of Famers.

Some other players whose overall OPS was slightly lower than Walker's road OPS (between .840 and .865): Cap Anson, Carl Yastrzemski, Reggie Jackson, Tony Gwynn, Eddie Collins, Al Kaline, George Brett, Honus Wagner and Wade Boggs.

So cherry picking works both ways.

More relevant is that OPS+ normalizes for park effects and league-wide run environments, and Larry Walker's OPS+ (141) ranks 43rd in MLB history among players with over 7,000 plate appearances. His OPS+ (which effectively strips out his Coors advantage) is higher than any post-WW II Hall of Fame right fielder except for Hank Aaron and Frank Robinson.

No doubt that Walker's home/road splits were extreme, but virtually every player puts up bigger numbers at home than on the road. In fact, since 1908 there have been 415 players with more than 3,500 road plate appearances. Walker's .865 OPS ranks 55th, ahead of hitters including Ken Griffey Jr., Carlos Beltran, Adrian Beltre, Will Clark, Sammy Sosa and Robinson Cano. Ken Griffey Jr.''s road slash stats are 278/370/495 (his 860 OPS is five points lower than Walker's). So you could group Kid Griffey with Tartabull et al if you wish.

Finally, Walker was an outstanding fielder and outstanding baserunner, one of the only players in MLB history who ranks in the top 100 in batting WAR, fielding WAR and base running WAR. He was far more than a one dimensional hitter, rather a genuine five tool player. Looking exclusively at his hitting (even though it was outstanding) is unfair given the other facets of his game, which were similarly strong.

The only fair issue with regard to his HoF candidacy is related to his longevity. He only played 1,988 games in his career. But his ability and performance is unquestionable and far from a Coors field illusion.

Mathematicians rule the roost. Let me ask you a simple question- did you ever consider Walker “elite”. Very good, yes. Elite, no.  
Question two - who would you rather see strolling to the plate with the bases loaded two outs in the ninth and your team up a run - Walker or Gary Sheffield?  (And sorry, no way I’m going to consider a Walker in the same realm as Griffey Jr.) 

Moving forward if the whole issue is WAR, OPS, OPS+ and a bunch of other mathematical equations, who needs people to decide?  Set up the parameters and let the computer do your work.

You know who should be in the HOF, but isn’t (and may not make it)?  Omar Vizquel.  Why? Because he was one of the most brilliant defensive players that has ever played the game. A true artist. But I guess his WAR isn’t high enough.

I’ll give you another.  Buster Posey. And that is if he retired now.  Why?  ROY.  MVP.  Best catcher of his generation.  Face of a franchise for a team that won 3 WS.  First NL catcher to win Batting Title since Ernie Lombardi.  Best hitter and middle of order guy as a catcher on a three WS winner. Multi time Silver Slugger winner. Gold Glover.  Career ave over .300.  Yeah, his offensive numbers suffered after he was hurt and worn down. But he did plenty to earn his place.  I suspect the mathematicians will disagree.

There is still, hopefully, a place for the eyes in baseball.  But it’s bevoming less and less the case. Too bad.

[cardcrimson]

Didn't even remember that Larry Walker played for the Rockies. Barely thought of him as a player at all, so was surprised that he was elected. Actually thought he may have been on the old timers ballot, if there is one.

Posey should be a lock. Lex, you missed his pitch calling skills as well.

He was a Coors creation, no doubt.  His OPS would be fourth all-time just based on Coors productivity.  Away from Coors, he's about #120 at .865.  So think Josh Hamilton, Jose Canseco, Danny Tartabull, John Olerud, Norm Cash, David Wright.  Not Hall of Famers.

Some other players whose overall OPS was slightly lower than Walker's road OPS (between .840 and .865): Cap Anson, Carl Yastrzemski, Reggie Jackson, Tony Gwynn, Eddie Collins, Al Kaline, George Brett, Honus Wagner and Wade Boggs.

So cherry picking works both ways.

More relevant is that OPS+ normalizes for park effects and league-wide run environments, and Larry Walker's OPS+ (141) ranks 43rd in MLB history among players with over 7,000 plate appearances. His OPS+ (which effectively strips out his Coors advantage) is higher than any post-WW II Hall of Fame right fielder except for Hank Aaron and Frank Robinson.

No doubt that Walker's home/road splits were extreme, but virtually every player puts up bigger numbers at home than on the road. In fact, since 1908 there have been 415 players with more than 3,500 road plate appearances. Walker's .865 OPS ranks 55th, ahead of hitters including Ken Griffey Jr., Carlos Beltran, Adrian Beltre, Will Clark, Sammy Sosa and Robinson Cano. Ken Griffey Jr.''s road slash stats are 278/370/495 (his 860 OPS is five points lower than Walker's). So you could group Kid Griffey with Tartabull et al if you wish.

Finally, Walker was an outstanding fielder and outstanding baserunner, one of the only players in MLB history who ranks in the top 100 in batting WAR, fielding WAR and base running WAR. He was far more than a one dimensional hitter, rather a genuine five tool player. Looking exclusively at his hitting (even though it was outstanding) is unfair given the other facets of his game, which were similarly strong.

The only fair issue with regard to his HoF candidacy is related to his longevity. He only played 1,988 games in his career. But his ability and performance is unquestionable and far from a Coors field illusion.

Mathematicians rule the roost. Let me ask you a simple question- did you ever consider Walker “elite”. Very good, yes. Elite, no.  
Question two - who would you rather see strolling to the plate with the bases loaded two outs in the ninth and your team up a run - Walker or Gary Sheffield?  (And sorry, no way I’m going to consider a Walker in the same realm as Griffey Jr.) 

Moving forward if the whole issue is WAR, OPS, OPS+ and a bunch of other mathematical equations, who needs people to decide?  Set up the parameters and let the computer do your work.

You know who should be in the HOF, but isn’t (and may not make it)?  Omar Vizquel.  Why? Because he was one of the most brilliant defensive players that has ever played the game. A true artist. But I guess his WAR isn’t high enough.

I’ll give you another.  Buster Posey. And that is if he retired now.  Why?  ROY.  MVP.  Best catcher of his generation.  Face of a franchise for a team that won 3 WS.  First NL catcher to win Batting Title since Ernie Lombardi.  Best hitter and middle of order guy as a catcher on a three WS winner. Multi time Silver Slugger winner. Gold Glover.  Career ave over .300.  Yeah, his offensive numbers suffered after he was hurt and worn down. But he did plenty to earn his place.  I suspect the mathematicians will disagree.

There is still, hopefully, a place for the eyes in baseball.  But it’s bevoming less and less the case. Too bad.