[Genuine Realist]

The CCP did bungle the initial response to the virus, including sanctioning doctors who sounded the early alarm, being slow to identify patient to patient transmission, bungling the implementation of the internal travel ban from Wuhan (such that millions of people left the city right before the restrictions were imposed).

That's true but irrelevant to assessing the performance of our own leaders in responding to the pandemic, which you already know how I feel about it.  Maybe Regan's admonishment applies, "trust, but verify".  Besides, the administration continued to bungle the response, minimize the severity here, and send out conflicting (I'm being nice here) messages long after the extent of the danger of the virus was aparent, nothwithstanding what the CCP and WHO said.

So, I guess what I'm trying to say is, given a choice between blaming China and blaming the Trump administration...



BC

'Irrelevant' is a strong word. 'Not decisive' is perhaps more accurate, but I don't think entirely correct. 

Leave Presidential personalities aside. What has struck me is the amazing speed at which this society, and others around the world, went from comparative indifference to Covid-19 to an acceptance of a massive, incredibly economically damaging and socially stressful, shutdown of society at large. The NCAA tournament canceled? Wimbledon postponed? No one even contemplated that on March 1st - yet it happened by March 10th. Wow. So what changed?

Very simply, the availability of massive, HONEST clinical data, largely from Italy but also the United States, that accumulated exponentially throughout the month of February and hit critical mass around 3/1. I'll give credit to a few seers, some on this Board, who saw more clearly. But this was not wisdom that percolated to the public at large - and you need broad public awareness for these measures to be accepted. Even a President as popular as Obama or Kennedy can't do much without that. And that was no thanks to China, or more accurately, the CCP. 

The reality seems to me that the CCP misinformed, disinformed, and obfuscated its actual experience with the virus throughout the months of January and February. Skeptics such as Tom Cotton were pummeled as conspiratists in the MSM. I"m going to link an article by Christine Rosen that summarizes the extent of CCP apologetics. One factoid stands out - the WHO was congratulating the CCP for halting the spread of the virus, when by that date it was active in 18 different nations. 

It is important to get history correct. In my opinion, it's a refusal to do that that opens the door for bigots of various types - because the unwillingness to acknowledge established fact takes you out of the game of fair judgment. Thus, twenty years ago, a refusal to acknowledge the obvious truth that a teeny-tiny minority of Islamic jihadists (though large in absolute numbers) had committed some horrific terroristic acts and were prepared to do more, left the field open for persons who wanted to condemn the religion as a whole and all adherents. You minimize prejudice by exploring known truth values, not ignoring them for ideologically convenient reasons. It's too early to make the definitive case against the Communist Chinese. But the prima facie case is very strong.

Take all the shots at Trump you want, but it is public awareness and concern that matter. The awakening of that was delayed at least six weeks by CCP obscurantism.

[Genuine Realist]

The CCP did bungle the initial response to the virus, including sanctioning doctors who sounded the early alarm, being slow to identify patient to patient transmission, bungling the implementation of the internal travel ban from Wuhan (such that millions of people left the city right before the restrictions were imposed).

That's true but irrelevant to assessing the performance of our own leaders in responding to the pandemic, which you already know how I feel about it.  Maybe Regan's admonishment applies, "trust, but verify".  Besides, the administration continued to bungle the response, minimize the severity here, and send out conflicting (I'm being nice here) messages long after the extent of the danger of the virus was aparent, nothwithstanding what the CCP and WHO said.

So, I guess what I'm trying to say is, given a choice between blaming China and blaming the Trump administration...



BC

'Irrelevant' is a strong word. 'Not decisive' is perhaps more accurate, but I don't think entirely correct. 

Leave Presidential personalities aside. What has struck me is the amazing speed at which this society, and others around the world, went from comparative indifference to Covid-19 to an acceptance of a massive, incredibly economically damaging and socially stressful, shutdown of society at large. The NCAA tournament canceled? Wimbledon postponed? No one even contemplated that on March 1st - yet it happened by March 10th. Wow. So what changed?

Very simply, the availability of massive, HONEST clinical data, largely from Italy but also the United States, that accumulated exponentially throughout the month of February and hit critical mass around 3/1. I'll give credit to a few seers, some on this Board, who saw more clearly. But this was not wisdom that percolated to the public at large - and you need broad public awareness for these measures to be accepted. Even a President as popular as Obama or Kennedy can't do much without that. And that was no thanks to China, or more accurately, the CCP. 

The reality seems to me that the CCP misinformed, disinformed, and obfuscated its actual experience with the virus throughout the months of January and February. Skeptics such as Tom Cotton were pummeled as conspiratists in the MSM. I"m going to link an article by Christine Rosen that summarizes the extent of CCP apologetics. One factoid stands out - the WHO was congratulating the CCP for halting the spread of the virus, when by that date it was active in 18 different nations. 

It is important to get history correct. In my opinion, it's a refusal to do that that opens the door for bigots of various types - because the unwillingness to acknowledge established fact takes you out of the game of fair judgment. Thus, twenty years ago, a refusal to acknowledge the obvious truth that a teeny-tiny minority of Islamic jihadists (though large in absolute numbers) had committed some horrific terroristic acts and were prepared to do more, left the field open for persons who wanted to condemn the religion as a whole and all adherents. You minimize prejudice by exploring known truth values, not ignoring them for ideologically convenient reasons. It's too early to make the definitive case against the Communist Chinese. But the prima facie case is very strong.

Take all the shots at Trump you want, but it is public awareness and concern that matter. The awakening of that was delayed at least six weeks by CCP obscurantism.