[Genuine Realist]

You don't think it helps to look for domestic villains but you are singularly focused on finding foreign villains, namely the CCP and WHO.  You repeatedly insist that they retarded our response by 6 weeks.  The travel restrictions were very limited, issued too late, and had inexplicable exceptions that pretty much assured they would fail.  The White House didn't issue its guidelines regarding social distancing until March 16th with the idea that they would be very temporary and only last two weeks.  Those guidelines have been repeatedly extended due to the pressure of reality.  From the time they were issued until now, the president has repeatedly minimized the seriousness of the pandemic and undermined the need for the stay at home measures.  Within the last week, he had his AG threaten to sue states that didn't open up on the president's timeline.  He also incited people to ignore the social distancing measures in political swing states.  All of this happened AFTER the 6 week delay that you assert CCP and WHO caused.  

I think CCP and WHO had some failings and some terrible bad acting that delayed the sharing of some important information.  However, a great deal of information was available by March and many people and countries acted on it.  I am not moved by the poor reaction of many Western nations, because in the USA there were many who saw the information and acted on it.  We had every opportunity to act.  The problem with your position is that the president has not acted with deliberation and strong leadership since the information became unquestionably known to all in the world.  The idea that the president would have acted any differently 6 weeks earlier if he had more information is laughable.  He didn't act after the information was known.  

I am sure you have at least some exposure to the concept of comparative fault.  In my view, you are correct that CCP mostly (WHO to a much lesser extent) bear some responsibility for not meeting their workplace responsibilities and moral duties to share information with the world in a more timely manner.  However, even after the information was out, our President only acted on that information in the most limited way with utmost recalcitrance.  The only thing that seems to be having an impact on this president is the growing number of deaths.  (About to pass 50,000 at this moment.)  In most states, the president would be deemed to be more at fault than the CCP/WHO because he mostly failed to act once he did get the information.  As a result he would be barred from any damages due to their behavior.  

To use an analogy, it would be like a situation where a meth cooker's house caught on fire but he didn't call the fire department because he was afraid he would be exposed and arrested.  The fire then spreads to a bunch of neighborhoods including our president's house a few blocks away, but he refuses to call the fire department despite the fact that all the other people whose houses on other blocks quickly started calling.  Our president however is afraid that the fire will be bad for property values and hurt his chances to get re-elected to the HOA board because he has promised everyone that their development is exceptional and the fire would probably just go away and we were doing a great job fighting the fire without the fire department.  Then, even after calling, he kept calling back and saying the fire department wasn't really needed and the fire is really very small.  After the president's house burns to the ground, would a jury award him any damages?  I sure as heck wouldn't.  That is the reason your focus on the failures of the CCP/WHO carry very little weight with me.  

Cheers,
Pete F.

I'm actually focused on eliminating domestic villains, or, more accurately, domestic demons. Whether you regard the Chinese response as good, bad, or indifferent, the information coming out through the WHO from China was the gating factor for every health service in the world. The US response was not scandalously negligent or nonchalant. With small variations for national culture and government structure, the pattern of just about every nation in the world followed the same pattern with nearly identical 

It's important because a great many of the commentators are playing a game Eric Berne, in a 1960's best seller entitled 'Games People Play' famously described as 'Now I've Got You, You Sonuvabitch'. Three years ago, the normal political opposition that Trump richly deserves morphed into a hysterical, morbid hatred all out of proportion to the actual magnitude of the cause. The apoplectic rage George Bush endured between 2003 and 2008 is tame stuff indeed. If you check out Amazon for books about Trump written in 2017, you'll find an embarrassing number of otherwise respectable intellectuals who disgraced themselves predicting or speculating on a Fascist takeover of the government in the near future. (HOW???? Trump didn't have a private army, and he was not particularly respected by the regular armed forces. But those sort of details didn't matter.)

For three years, the faction has been frustrated because the nation ran on normally, and in some ways rather well. The cause that would justify that effect never arose. Now comes Covid-19 and  . . .  'NOW we've got you, you sonuvabitch!' You disbanded the /Pandemic Task Force. (Only he didn't.) You defanged the CDC. (Nope.) You fiddled while Rome burned. (Trump's public statements were too positive, but it's the walk that matters, not the talk, and the actions taken were identical in substance with those in other countries. None of it checks out.

It's important, because the critical decisions coming up - opening up the economy, balancing the economic risk versus the health risk, etc. - are ultra important. It's impossible to make them perfectly - we can only hope they are made as well as fallible human beings can make them.

I for sure don't want to hand any one a blank check. But I also would urge trust in good faith, because that does exist. 

In any case, ending the demonization and the sonuvabitch game is the point of the exercise.

[Genuine Realist]

You don't think it helps to look for domestic villains but you are singularly focused on finding foreign villains, namely the CCP and WHO.  You repeatedly insist that they retarded our response by 6 weeks.  The travel restrictions were very limited, issued too late, and had inexplicable exceptions that pretty much assured they would fail.  The White House didn't issue its guidelines regarding social distancing until March 16th with the idea that they would be very temporary and only last two weeks.  Those guidelines have been repeatedly extended due to the pressure of reality.  From the time they were issued until now, the president has repeatedly minimized the seriousness of the pandemic and undermined the need for the stay at home measures.  Within the last week, he had his AG threaten to sue states that didn't open up on the president's timeline.  He also incited people to ignore the social distancing measures in political swing states.  All of this happened AFTER the 6 week delay that you assert CCP and WHO caused.  

I think CCP and WHO had some failings and some terrible bad acting that delayed the sharing of some important information.  However, a great deal of information was available by March and many people and countries acted on it.  I am not moved by the poor reaction of many Western nations, because in the USA there were many who saw the information and acted on it.  We had every opportunity to act.  The problem with your position is that the president has not acted with deliberation and strong leadership since the information became unquestionably known to all in the world.  The idea that the president would have acted any differently 6 weeks earlier if he had more information is laughable.  He didn't act after the information was known.  

I am sure you have at least some exposure to the concept of comparative fault.  In my view, you are correct that CCP mostly (WHO to a much lesser extent) bear some responsibility for not meeting their workplace responsibilities and moral duties to share information with the world in a more timely manner.  However, even after the information was out, our President only acted on that information in the most limited way with utmost recalcitrance.  The only thing that seems to be having an impact on this president is the growing number of deaths.  (About to pass 50,000 at this moment.)  In most states, the president would be deemed to be more at fault than the CCP/WHO because he mostly failed to act once he did get the information.  As a result he would be barred from any damages due to their behavior.  

To use an analogy, it would be like a situation where a meth cooker's house caught on fire but he didn't call the fire department because he was afraid he would be exposed and arrested.  The fire then spreads to a bunch of neighborhoods including our president's house a few blocks away, but he refuses to call the fire department despite the fact that all the other people whose houses on other blocks quickly started calling.  Our president however is afraid that the fire will be bad for property values and hurt his chances to get re-elected to the HOA board because he has promised everyone that their development is exceptional and the fire would probably just go away and we were doing a great job fighting the fire without the fire department.  Then, even after calling, he kept calling back and saying the fire department wasn't really needed and the fire is really very small.  After the president's house burns to the ground, would a jury award him any damages?  I sure as heck wouldn't.  That is the reason your focus on the failures of the CCP/WHO carry very little weight with me.  

Cheers,
Pete F.

I'm actually focused on eliminating domestic villains, or, more accurately, domestic demons. Whether you regard the Chinese response as good, bad, or indifferent, the information coming out through the WHO from China was the gating factor for every health service in the world. The US response was not scandalously negligent or nonchalant. With small variations for national culture and government structure, the pattern of just about every nation in the world followed the same pattern with nearly identical 

It's important because a great many of the commentators are playing a game Eric Berne, in a 1960's best seller entitled 'Games People Play' famously described as 'Now I've Got You, You Sonuvabitch'. Three years ago, the normal political opposition that Trump richly deserves morphed into a hysterical, morbid hatred all out of proportion to the actual magnitude of the cause. The apoplectic rage George Bush endured between 2003 and 2008 is tame stuff indeed. If you check out Amazon for books about Trump written in 2017, you'll find an embarrassing number of otherwise respectable intellectuals who disgraced themselves predicting or speculating on a Fascist takeover of the government in the near future. (HOW???? Trump didn't have a private army, and he was not particularly respected by the regular armed forces. But those sort of details didn't matter.)

For three years, the faction has been frustrated because the nation ran on normally, and in some ways rather well. The cause that would justify that effect never arose. Now comes Covid-19 and  . . .  'NOW we've got you, you sonuvabitch!' You disbanded the /Pandemic Task Force. (Only he didn't.) You defanged the CDC. (Nope.) You fiddled while Rome burned. (Trump's public statements were too positive, but it's the walk that matters, not the talk, and the actions taken were identical in substance with those in other countries. None of it checks out.

It's important, because the critical decisions coming up - opening up the economy, balancing the economic risk versus the health risk, etc. - are ultra important. It's impossible to make them perfectly - we can only hope they are made as well as fallible human beings can make them.

I for sure don't want to hand any one a blank check. But I also would urge trust in good faith, because that does exist. 

In any case, ending the demonization and the sonuvabitch game is the point of the exercise.