[Genuine Realist]

What this thread - but particularly GR's "Timelines" thread - makes abundantly clear is one thing:  do not even try to tread on this board's absolute right to $hit on the Trump Administration for its feckless handling of the Covid- virus, whether by "relativizing" it or what have you.  The troops were out in force in Timelines, that's for sure!

An amazing study in board psychology . . . if anyone really cares.

And speaking of that, who really cares about how other countries handled the pandemic, good or bad or "about the same," or whatever?  And that's putting aside the historic, geographic, and cultural differences which may help or hinder a unified response in one country versus here.  It's all irrelevant noise, imo.  But whatever.

1. This special COVID-19 section was created precisely because of a feeling many of us had that the initial response wasn't sufficient, both in the media and by our government. So you surely can't be surprised there are more skeptics than adherents of the Administration's approach.

2. What was bizarre to me about GR's approach is that he got to pick and choose which countries to compare us to. In social science, we call that selecting on the dependent variable. When many of us noted a number of success stories, GR handwaved them all away as unsuitable comparisons according to him. Maybe the case can be made for why the actual actions taken in Taiwan, South Korea, and New Zealand aren't achievable here, but GR didn't make it. He just said those countries are so different that no comparisons can be made. That, to me, is begging the question. I'm not entirely surprised that this approach didn't persuade anyone who didn't come in sharing GR's view.

3. If you're dissatisfied with the viewpoint of many folks in this forum, no one is forcing you to keep posting. I have to say I'm genuinely baffled by the complaint that in a marketplace of ideas, some ideas will be ones that few want to buy. Nothing unfair about that - if someone's not persuaded, they're not persuaded. I doubt I've said much of anything to persuade you; ultimately, I view that as my issue, not yours.

Please. Twice I invited anyone who thought they could find a nation with any different pattern to go for it. (I  included Germany because it was being held up as a model.)  It takes a while to write those things. Enough is enough. I'm not going to survey every country in the world. If you think you can find an exception, go for it. 

I'm not revisiting the thread, but I'll bet no one has done so.  And I'll bet any exception you think you find actually is a flawed comparison.

The dumb ol', prosaic fact here is that the gating factor from January on was increasing knowledge. It began as a trickle in early January, began to gush at the end of January, became a flood in February. The pattern of every administration and health service in the West was roughly the same, and why shouldn't it be? The object of the exercise is the same everywhere, to contain the virus with the minimum of social constraint. There are no competing national interests, as in defense spending, etc. These days information is transmitted almost instantly, so there is no appreciable information gap.

Under these circumstances, you'd expect the process to be roughly equivalent everywhere, and that's exactly what happened. The US is neither better nor worse than other Western nations. That shouldn't be any surprise to anyone.

The fury comes from the posters who want to play Berne's game, 'Now I've Got You . . . '. It seems the game is not afoot. Darn. 

Everything is not about Trump - or shouldn't be, anyway. Can we get on with the business of coping with this?

[Genuine Realist]

What this thread - but particularly GR's "Timelines" thread - makes abundantly clear is one thing:  do not even try to tread on this board's absolute right to $hit on the Trump Administration for its feckless handling of the Covid- virus, whether by "relativizing" it or what have you.  The troops were out in force in Timelines, that's for sure!

An amazing study in board psychology . . . if anyone really cares.

And speaking of that, who really cares about how other countries handled the pandemic, good or bad or "about the same," or whatever?  And that's putting aside the historic, geographic, and cultural differences which may help or hinder a unified response in one country versus here.  It's all irrelevant noise, imo.  But whatever.

1. This special COVID-19 section was created precisely because of a feeling many of us had that the initial response wasn't sufficient, both in the media and by our government. So you surely can't be surprised there are more skeptics than adherents of the Administration's approach.

2. What was bizarre to me about GR's approach is that he got to pick and choose which countries to compare us to. In social science, we call that selecting on the dependent variable. When many of us noted a number of success stories, GR handwaved them all away as unsuitable comparisons according to him. Maybe the case can be made for why the actual actions taken in Taiwan, South Korea, and New Zealand aren't achievable here, but GR didn't make it. He just said those countries are so different that no comparisons can be made. That, to me, is begging the question. I'm not entirely surprised that this approach didn't persuade anyone who didn't come in sharing GR's view.

3. If you're dissatisfied with the viewpoint of many folks in this forum, no one is forcing you to keep posting. I have to say I'm genuinely baffled by the complaint that in a marketplace of ideas, some ideas will be ones that few want to buy. Nothing unfair about that - if someone's not persuaded, they're not persuaded. I doubt I've said much of anything to persuade you; ultimately, I view that as my issue, not yours.

Please. Twice I invited anyone who thought they could find a nation with any different pattern to go for it. (I  included Germany because it was being held up as a model.)  It takes a while to write those things. Enough is enough. I'm not going to survey every country in the world. If you think you can find an exception, go for it. 

I'm not revisiting the thread, but I'll bet no one has done so.  And I'll bet any exception you think you find actually is a flawed comparison.

The dumb ol', prosaic fact here is that the gating factor from January on was increasing knowledge. It began as a trickle in early January, began to gush at the end of January, became a flood in February. The pattern of every administration and health service in the West was roughly the same, and why shouldn't it be? The object of the exercise is the same everywhere, to contain the virus with the minimum of social constraint. There are no competing national interests, as in defense spending, etc. These days information is transmitted almost instantly, so there is no appreciable information gap.

Under these circumstances, you'd expect the process to be roughly equivalent everywhere, and that's exactly what happened. The US is neither better nor worse than other Western nations. That shouldn't be any surprise to anyone.

The fury comes from the posters who want to play Berne's game, 'Now I've Got You . . . '. It seems the game is not afoot. Darn. 

Everything is not about Trump - or shouldn't be, anyway. Can we get on with the business of coping with this?