[oregontim]

Heartbreaking. If we'd dealt as a nation as well as the average European nation, our death toll would have been at least 100K lives lower so far. And we'd be looking to an end to the lockdowns. If only. No president in my lifetime (I'm 72) would have handled this crisis so bizarrely. And it goes on and on. He and his handlers could turn it around in a day ... it would improve their election standing ... but no. The all-about-me world of Donald Trump.

I don't think that's right; the European average is brought up by Italy, Spain, and France (who were hit early in the pandemic before anyone could prepare), and the UK, which delayed going into a lockdown thinking it could do a Sweden-like herd immunity play.  I think the death rate in the EU as a whole is about the same as the UK, though their trajectory is better.

BC

I stand corrected. You're right. As of Aug. 17 we're at 519 per million. Belgium, UK, Spain, Italy, and Sweden are worse than us; all others in Europe are better. I chose the wrong comparison, bt I still think my point is valid. Our rate is more than double that of Canada, about 32 times worse than Australia. This is the wealthiest nation in the world. We have the best or close to it in doctors and medical research. 

But this has come up before. Others on this forum are convinced that we are as a citizenry so much less "compliant" than Canada and Australia that this disaster would have happened even under other leadership. We can only guess on that one. It's hypothetical. But we can be pretty sure that our president made this all much worse. IMO.

[oregontim]

Heartbreaking. If we'd dealt as a nation as well as the average European nation, our death toll would have been at least 100K lives lower so far. And we'd be looking to an end to the lockdowns. If only. No president in my lifetime (I'm 72) would have handled this crisis so bizarrely. And it goes on and on. He and his handlers could turn it around in a day ... it would improve their election standing ... but no. The all-about-me world of Donald Trump.

I don't think that's right; the European average is brought up by Italy, Spain, and France (who were hit early in the pandemic before anyone could prepare), and the UK, which delayed going into a lockdown thinking it could do a Sweden-like herd immunity play.  I think the death rate in the EU as a whole is about the same as the UK, though their trajectory is better.

BC

I stand corrected. You're right. As of Aug. 17 we're at 519 per million. Belgium, UK, Spain, Italy, and Sweden are worse than us; all others in Europe are better. I chose the wrong comparison, bt I still think my point is valid. Our rate is more than double that of Canada, about 32 times worse than Australia. This is the wealthiest nation in the world. We have the best or close to it in doctors and medical research. 

But this has come up before. Others on this forum are convinced that we are as a citizenry so much less "compliant" than Canada and Australia that this disaster would have happened even under other leadership. We can only guess on that one. It's hypothetical. But we can be pretty sure that our president made this all much worse. IMO.