[Mick]

Freedom to spread the coronavirus is not an inalienable right.  It was not only China that shut down the virus, virtually all East Asia countries put the US response to shame.  Why is this one category where the usually competitive Americans are satisfied to fail?

Good question. I think the answer is that Americans look at it from the point of view "What maximizes my happiness?". They would rather do things that make them happy or richer even if that increases the spread of the virus and others may die because of it. As long as they aren't the ones who die, they don't care much. Americans have little concept of collective responsibility. If things get bad enough, eventually Americans will take note, but it has to be pretty bad.

Other cultures have a notion of collective responsibility  and/or a government that will enforce that responsibility. In Japan, the Prime Minister has no power to order people to work from home. However, when he asked, they did. Enforcement wasn't needed. Most countries with this sense of responsibility are culturally homogeneous. Those that aren't have very strong central governments with widespread powers (Singapore).

  I disagree with you.  Americans have a strong sense of “collective responsibility”. According to The a World Giving Index,  Americans are the most generous people on the planet. It’s a United Kingdom organization and maybe it’s full of garbage I don’t know. But I have read similar studies that suggest the same thing.

 And Americans always rally to a cause -  such as a natural disaster. With h.u.g.e sums of money and sweat equity being donated.

This is different for a couple reasons. One, you can’t see it. It’s not like a hurricane or tornado that destroys a city or town. Two it has an economic component that no matter how much one wants to deny it, exists.  I’m sorry, but I’ll say it again, I think it’s very easy for most of the people on this board to criticize those who are in a “hurry“ to get things open and working again. Because I think most of the people on this board are older, and economically set.  Thus they (we) can handle it. It’s a tad different when you’re living paycheck to paycheck and you lose a job, you’re 35 years old, the risk to you is not all that high and you have mouths to feed. 

So again – I’m not willing to throw the American people under the bus or cower in shame because we’re not acting like the Chinese, Singapore or the ***** Germans. And I’m not gonna apologize one iota for that.

I actually agree with both of you, and I think it was a perfect storm scenario.  This is a situation in which, essentially, inaction was called for and powerful people have a bias towards action.  And America is the most powerful country on earth, and Americans think of themselves as such.  We don't like what inaction suggests: shutting down the economy, isolating oneself from others, giving up personal freedoms that were won in blood over hundreds of years.  Factor into account the general lack of health among Americans, and candidly...I don't think whoever sat in the White House was going to change that much.  Yes, we destroyed the lives of millions of non-elite people, and the Media Elite, the Liberal Elite, the Conservative Elite, the Business Elite and the rest of the Political Elite didn't give two sxxts about the regular working joe...because the Elites don't have to.  Their jobs and their money will always be there.  They're isolated from the concerns of everyday Americans.  Shut down the economy for months and throw 55 million people out of work?  No sweat.  Had to be done, because we had to flatten the curve.

Last night's debate was interesting, but the most interesting part, for me, came right out of the gate.  The moderator's question to Kamala Harris was "What would you have done differently from Trump/Pence regarding the response to the pandemic?"  I thought it was a perfect trap question to obliterate Pence.  Any time there's a perceived failure after a ten month effort, any thinking person should be able to destroy the plan/process of the other side.

Turns out it was a trap question for Harris.  She railed against the inadequacies of the Trump/Pence approach...but she didn't say what she and Biden would have done differently, other than initiate contact tracing earlier.  I was waiting for her 10-point-seal-of-approval-here's-what-we-would-have-done-differently -- and I didn't hear it. That was an "uh oh" moment for me. If you want to supplant a sitting president, you need to do more than criticize him -- you need to show how you would have done it better. She didn't.

As for the NEJM's endorsement, I'm not too surprised.  Biden/Harris would be much better for the medical community, because Biden/Harris will ensure that more money gets thrown at health care, pretty much across the board.  It's good for their business, so they endorsed Biden/Harris.

[Mick]

Freedom to spread the coronavirus is not an inalienable right.  It was not only China that shut down the virus, virtually all East Asia countries put the US response to shame.  Why is this one category where the usually competitive Americans are satisfied to fail?

Good question. I think the answer is that Americans look at it from the point of view "What maximizes my happiness?". They would rather do things that make them happy or richer even if that increases the spread of the virus and others may die because of it. As long as they aren't the ones who die, they don't care much. Americans have little concept of collective responsibility. If things get bad enough, eventually Americans will take note, but it has to be pretty bad.

Other cultures have a notion of collective responsibility  and/or a government that will enforce that responsibility. In Japan, the Prime Minister has no power to order people to work from home. However, when he asked, they did. Enforcement wasn't needed. Most countries with this sense of responsibility are culturally homogeneous. Those that aren't have very strong central governments with widespread powers (Singapore).

  I disagree with you.  Americans have a strong sense of “collective responsibility”. According to The a World Giving Index,  Americans are the most generous people on the planet. It’s a United Kingdom organization and maybe it’s full of garbage I don’t know. But I have read similar studies that suggest the same thing.

 And Americans always rally to a cause -  such as a natural disaster. With h.u.g.e sums of money and sweat equity being donated.

This is different for a couple reasons. One, you can’t see it. It’s not like a hurricane or tornado that destroys a city or town. Two it has an economic component that no matter how much one wants to deny it, exists.  I’m sorry, but I’ll say it again, I think it’s very easy for most of the people on this board to criticize those who are in a “hurry“ to get things open and working again. Because I think most of the people on this board are older, and economically set.  Thus they (we) can handle it. It’s a tad different when you’re living paycheck to paycheck and you lose a job, you’re 35 years old, the risk to you is not all that high and you have mouths to feed. 

So again – I’m not willing to throw the American people under the bus or cower in shame because we’re not acting like the Chinese, Singapore or the ***** Germans. And I’m not gonna apologize one iota for that.

I actually agree with both of you, and I think it was a perfect storm scenario.  This is a situation in which, essentially, inaction was called for and powerful people have a bias towards action.  And America is the most powerful country on earth, and Americans think of themselves as such.  We don't like what inaction suggests: shutting down the economy, isolating oneself from others, giving up personal freedoms that were won in blood over hundreds of years.  Factor into account the general lack of health among Americans, and candidly...I don't think whoever sat in the White House was going to change that much.  Yes, we destroyed the lives of millions of non-elite people, and the Media Elite, the Liberal Elite, the Conservative Elite, the Business Elite and the rest of the Political Elite didn't give two sxxts about the regular working joe...because the Elites don't have to.  Their jobs and their money will always be there.  They're isolated from the concerns of everyday Americans.  Shut down the economy for months and throw 55 million people out of work?  No sweat.  Had to be done, because we had to flatten the curve.

Last night's debate was interesting, but the most interesting part, for me, came right out of the gate.  The moderator's question to Kamala Harris was "What would you have done differently from Trump/Pence regarding the response to the pandemic?"  I thought it was a perfect trap question to obliterate Pence.  Any time there's a perceived failure after a ten month effort, any thinking person should be able to destroy the plan/process of the other side.

Turns out it was a trap question for Harris.  She railed against the inadequacies of the Trump/Pence approach...but she didn't say what she and Biden would have done differently, other than initiate contact tracing earlier.  I was waiting for her 10-point-seal-of-approval-here's-what-we-would-have-done-differently -- and I didn't hear it. That was an "uh oh" moment for me. If you want to supplant a sitting president, you need to do more than criticize him -- you need to show how you would have done it better. She didn't.

As for the NEJM's endorsement, I'm not too surprised.  Biden/Harris would be much better for the medical community, because Biden/Harris will ensure that more money gets thrown at health care, pretty much across the board.  It's good for their business, so they endorsed Biden/Harris.